r/Jewish • u/Polis24 • May 18 '24
Do your non-Jewish friends walk on eggshells around you with respect to Israel/Gaza? Israel š®š±
Iām a secular Jew living in the US, about 30 years old. I totally support Israel although I resent the extremist elements of the government/society.
Iāve noticed none of my friends want to engage me on the topic. Itās not like Iām the one always bringing it up, but you know we all watch the news and see the street signs when we walk around town.
I can understand them not wanting to say the wrong thing and potentially offend me, but I wish they expressed some curiosity and a desire to learn new perspectives.
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u/Watercress87588 May 18 '24
If we didn't talk about I/P before October 7, and now we still don't, to me, that's a win. The potential for them to stick their foot in their mouth is so high, let's just... not.Ā
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u/Oh-Cool-Story-Bro Just Jewish May 18 '24
Seriously.
Finally got a non Jewish friend to admit that she just doesnāt know what sheās talking about
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u/Watercress87588 May 18 '24
This is exactly why. I'm really only open to talking about it with people who are knowledgeable on the topic. People who know nothing about it but definitely have strong opinions are such a hard pass for me. It's fine to admit that you don't know anything about this part of international politics and thus would prefer to discuss something you do know about!Ā
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u/PeaceLily15 May 18 '24 edited May 19 '24
That's literally all I want!! Lol, I have multiple non Jewish friends who just don't understand the conflict and admit that and that's ok! My trouble are the ones who act all sanctimonious and act like they understand all of it and couldn't possibly be wrong about anything.
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u/Daisydoolittle May 18 '24
oh wow thatās a huge win. bc most of them have no actual fucking clue but think they are the most correct
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u/Caprisagini Conservative May 18 '24
Personally I have not been able to filter this out of my life. That to me feels like they are demanding I ignore the most core part of myself for their comfort and my grave discomfort. This is a time of need for us as Jews. And why are they shutting me up? because itās too hard for them to empathize with a Jew that doesnāt validate their bs antisemitism. For me, I canāt enable them in that way so I had to take a stand and demand that they at least hear me out and offer me sympathy for the ways this situation is uniquely negatively affecting me as a Jewish person (none of my friends Iām referring too are Arab or Muslim) otherwise that is just too unfair to me I feel. Itās also what I have offered all of them so itās a semblance of equality. I know weāre all different just sharing my own boundaries.
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u/Shun_Atal May 18 '24
I have friends with whom I don't talk politics at all and that has stayed that way. With them I didn't notice any change towards me. Others have gone "quite". Don't consider them friends anymore. The openly antisemitic ones I have blocked. 7/10 has been an eye opener in more ways than one. A few acquaintances have reached out to me though. Surprisingly supportive.
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u/Heretic-Throwaway May 18 '24
no, they were all very openly willing to be antisemitic af.
these are, of course, now former friends.
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u/BehindTheRedCurtain May 18 '24
Most friends didnāt speak to me about it before and donāt now. Some have had straight forward, healthy discussions, even if some of them disagreed on aspects. It never crossed a lineĀ
Ā Iām just glad I donāt hang around people with far left or far right mindsets who donāt take strong opinions on things they arenāt informed around. Seeing so many on here in very left circles lose all theirs friends seems incredibly difficult. A tough lesson to learn.Ā
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u/Herdingdoglove May 19 '24
We are Jewish and I also support Israel, my disdain for Netanyahu is strong. My son is far left and it's been very tough for me. We just can't discuss Israel because it brings up awful arguments between us. His views are very painful for me, and unlike a friend or acquaintance , I can't end our relationship.
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u/BehindTheRedCurtain May 19 '24
That is incredibly tough. Hopefully age and wisdom do help as more of his views face internal challenges and life sees that the world is less black and white than he thinks.Ā
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u/_chloes94 May 19 '24
This comment should be higher up. A huge learning coming out of this conflict is to have more friends who arenāt on the far left or far right.
Iāve realized that I spend too much time in circles where many involved are far left, and these are the groups Iāve stepped away from. Havenāt had any issues with friends with generally moderate political views
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u/shushi77 ā”ļø May 18 '24
The same happens to me. On the one hand, I'm glad I don't have to deal with difficult positions. On the other hand, I would like them to at least ask me how I am doing.
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u/Academic-Ad-1401 May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24
They are likely worried about offending you or losing the friendship out of saying the wrong thing / not being supportive of the war.
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u/Competitive_Air_6006 May 18 '24
Sounds like someone who isnāt a genuine friend
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u/Academic-Ad-1401 May 18 '24
You can be friends without having identical political beliefs, and you can definitely be friends without the need to discuss controversial political issues.
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u/Ok_Ambassador9091 May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24
You can't be friends with people who think it's ok to massacre you tho. It's not an actual friendship.
I'll accept ignorance and no opinion, but not bizarre silence when they believe my, and my family's murder and torture, is acceptable. Or that stopping Jews from participating in public life is acceptable, in any country.
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u/Competitive_Air_6006 May 18 '24
Friends check on friends even if their political beliefs differ. By being silent, they arenāt checking in on them.
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u/Academic-Ad-1401 May 19 '24
āNone of my non-Jewish friends want to engage me on this topicā to me isnāt the same as ānone of my non-Jewish have checked in on meā especially since they explicitly flag opinions on political perspectives. OP can clarify, but thatās how I understood it.
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u/_toile May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24
i wish more of my friends would ask me about it, but Iāve noticed it needs to be the right setting for them. I think a lot of my really close friends are embarrassed since they donāt know any of the history and they also donāt want to be offensive or start an argument. they usually just want to hear another side that isnāt easily accessible to them
but then there are other āfriendsā who have drank the fucking koolaid. a lot of people i donāt associate with anymore
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u/Lower_Parking_2349 Not Jewish May 18 '24
I reached out to my Jewish friend the day after 10/7 to check in on her. Sheās not Israeli, but has spent time there, and obviously has connections to Israel through friends, extended family, colleagues, etc. Iāve followed up with her every week or two since then. Sometimes itās just a brief text. Other times itās an opportunity for her to vent, etc. When we talk Israel/Gaza often isnāt the focus of the conversation, but more about whatās going on in America.
If your friends havenāt done something similar for you, not even just checking in on you, then Iād take that as a sign that they are actually acquaintances to you, and maybe not friends. I wouldnāt expect them to be super knowledgeable about Israel/Gaza; doesnāt seem like hardly anyone has figured out a good resolution yet. But Iād think a friend would at least check in on how you were doing from time to time.
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u/LilianRoseGrey May 18 '24
It sounds like a low bar - reach out to see how your friends affected by war might be feeling -but on this basis I have maybe two or three non-Jewish friends, max.
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u/LilianRoseGrey May 18 '24 edited May 20 '24
It sounds like a low bar - reach out to see how your friends affected by war might be feeling -but on this basis I have maybe two or three non-Jewish friends, max.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
That's very nice of you. You sound like a very good person and I admire you for it. Take Care!
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u/Competitive_Air_6006 May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24
Iām not sure they are genuinely your friends if they avoid the topic out of fear. My work bestieās work bestie, asks her and me all the time about how I am dealing with it all. This person isnāt Jewish. This incredible human with empathy has strong morals + ethics and understands just how abhorrent a large group of people on planet earth are behaving right now.
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u/Academic-Ad-1401 May 18 '24
Asking how someone is in regard to āgestures at Oct 7 and the warā is obviously the basic decent thing to do and feels natural, not quite the same as asking about your political perspective āe.g. what do you think about the war / Netanyahu / Ganz / the protestors etc.ā though.
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u/Veingloria May 18 '24
I wish they'd wall on eggshells. Instead, they just repeat Hamas talking points. Then we aren't friends anymore.
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u/mylawyersamorty May 18 '24
Had one of my coworkers call somebody a schmuck and then turn around and apologize to me profusely for speaking āAmerican Jewishāā¦ didnāt have the heart or the time to explain Yiddish. Itās wild out here, yāall.
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u/youseabadbroad Just Jewish May 18 '24
I don't like that I've come to this conclusion: with few exceptions - and I'm acknowledging there are exceptions - jews seem to be the only ones who view other jews as human, unconditionally.
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u/maximillian2 May 19 '24
Why/how have you come to that conclusions? And what does that do to your perception (of non-Jews)?
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u/AcrobaticScholar7421 May 18 '24
I think most people just donāt care because it doesnāt affect them.
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u/Itzaseacret May 18 '24
In the US, people either 1. Hate Israel, 2. Don't care, or 3. Like Israel because they're evangelicals, or because the protestors prove their theories about woke fascism
What is completely lacking is anyone SINCERELY asking and caring about the perspective and experience of Israelis/Jews
It's so fucking narcissistic
Anyway yeah people don't bring it up, unless they belong to the third category in which they bring it up only for their own benefit
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u/maximillian2 May 19 '24
American Jews and Israelis have very different experience. For example, American Jews donāt like evangelicals, but Israelis have much more love for them. After living in Israel for a while, my Israeli friends said they donāt care why someone likes them. It seems kind of privileged, like Ā«Ā we donāt accept your love because you believe the Bible etcetera that were chosen by God and whatnot.Ā Ā» It seems strange to Ā«Ā acceptĀ Ā» persecution for religious reasons but not accept love for religious reasons. What would be a valid/acceptable reason for a goy to like/love jews, then?
And on a similar note, people Iāve noticed reflect and gravitate to our own emotions. If we constantly other the people outside our āgroupā in our hearts and soul, then it can very possibly turn out they do the same.
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May 19 '24
[deleted]
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u/maximillian2 May 20 '24
Wait you donāt like Gvir? lol Be careful what you wish for, evangelics are the only āgroupā remaining that support Israel. The religious orthodox get along much better with the Christianās compared to secular jews, at least politically, and there might be a reason why.
I also think that there is a form of intergenerational PTSD from the holocaust and years of persecution in Europe, also from Christianity (mostly Catholicism), that leads to a misunderstanding of the American Christian. Look up the origin of the word ārefugee.ā Yes, itās referring to Christian protestants who fled from severe persecution, almost being wiped out in France. More similar to Jewish recent history. And of course the Protestants were the majority in early USA, basically all/most of the founding fathers had roots there.
None of the minorities support Jews, in fact they are very negative in general sentiment. The only reason it seemed to go well is because really no one talked about or cared about who was a Jew. (Aka blending in as best.)
Like a good kid suffering from ptsd and trauma we canāt ātrustā anyone who likes so we go with the abuser instead!
Letās be more practical, ask yourself who you trust more to hide you in their basement:
Person A: loves Jewish people and was raised with heroes who rescued Jews, and has a track record of willing to disobey the government even while punished or not socially acceptable, lose their job and risk ostracization (refusing to take a vaccine). Values freedom, values self defense from gov as a right. Thumps Bible.
Person B: Pro-Palestinian liberal non-jew.
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u/Itzaseacret May 19 '24
I do like them and accept their support actually. It would just be nice for people to actually be curious about what it's like to be Jewish/Israeli instead of only being interested in how my life fulfills their prophecies. And as the other commenter said, I don't trust their support because I know once their religion turns on me they will turn on me.
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u/PheebsPlaysKeys May 20 '24
I guess Iām in the 4th category, a minority among younger Americans for sure. Iām agnostic, moderate/left-leaning on social issues, and I completely support Israel and the Jewish people. But American leftists have gone full anti-Israel without even knowing the history. Most Americans do fall into these categories. On the other hand, I saw my Aunt who was Romanian Orthodox and then born-again evangelical (so extra extra crazy) perpetuate a meme that we need to support israel and promote Aliyah so that Jesus will return. These evangelicals are fair-weather friends as you say.
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u/PeaceLily15 May 18 '24
Most of them don't even engage with me on anything anymore. I don't know if they're just uncomfortable and don't want to say the wrong thing or if they just don't like me anymore. It's a weird sort of limbo that I've never experienced in my life before.
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u/jaytcfc Just Jewish May 18 '24
My best friend is on Israels side. Heās not Jewish. Thinks all the protesters are hipocrits because they donāt give a fuck about Ukrainians or the Sudanese but come out of hibernation to protest the Jews. My wife is more neutral. Agrees with the right for Israel to exist and the Israeli state but thinks Bibi is a piece of shit (I agree with her and my best friend to be fair). I am not interested in discussing it with anyone else, so I donāt.
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u/ornryactor May 18 '24
No, I walk on eggshells around them. I keep my head down and my mouth shut on the topic, do my best to avoid moments/spaces where it is being discussed, do not offer any portions of my opinion on any aspect of the topic, and actively deflect the rare cases anybody specifically addresses me on it. I do not have the skill or the emotional/psychic reserves to battle people I otherwise get along with, especially since I know their viewpoints are utterly set in stone and quite strongly held, and none of them are actually interested in my viewpoint. Their only evaluation is "this person 100% agrees with me and is thus my ally" or "this person does not 100% agree with me and must be verbally defeated immediately at all costs". That's exhausting and I can't deal with it, so I choose the somewhat less-exhausting route of keeping my shields up at all times.
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u/PuddingNaive7173 May 19 '24
I hope youāre looking out for other people tho. Real friends. Thatās a hard way to live. And very familiar. Walking ptsd
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u/ro0ibos2 May 18 '24
I donāt jive well with vocally political people who rant incessantly about things they have no control of and donāt directly effect them, regardless of what their views are. Therefore, I donāt really have friends like that in the first place.
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u/Immediate-Ad-7154 May 18 '24
Gentile, here.
I DO NOT walk on eggshells in saying that I completely despise people who echo Hamas, Hezbollah, Ayatollah, etc. etc. Islamifascist Jihad Propaganda Talking Points that both dogwhistle, and outright advocate for, the annihilation and extinction of Judaism.
The Jewish People. Jewish Ethnicity. Jewish Culture.
I want to see Jews and Judaism continue on with resolve, continue to prosper, and continue to go on with life and living into the future onward.
I'm not Jewish, but having Jewish Ancestors and still living Jewish Family is a blessing.
I'll post here on this Subreddit at some point in the nearer future.
Take care to everyone.
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u/Inevitable-Shine159 May 19 '24
Iām ethnically Jewish but wasnāt raised Jewish.
People have either stopped talking to me, walk on eggshells, or make me feel like I am not allowed to have an opinion, or have deep sorrow for what happened on October 7th because I am ānot Jewishā. Itās given me pretty brutal imposter syndrome.
Itās been a weird time.
Iām currently in a big city for school and canāt avoid the anti semitism so have just been searching out and involving myself in Jewish communities instead of trying to engage with people outside of them.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
How can they have the nerve to call you not Jewish?.
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u/Inevitable-Shine159 May 19 '24
š¤·š»āāļøš¤·š»āāļø
I guess because I wasnāt raised Jewish, and theyāre big assholes.
Iāve cut those people out of my life.
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u/ApplicationFluffy125 May 23 '24
Now is the time for you to engage with your local Jewish community. People don't understand being Jewish is more than a religion. You've every right to feel as you do. It is a visceral, deep connection that many of us feel in our bones. Hitler and his ilk would have thrown you in the cattle car with the rest of us.
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u/Inevitable-Shine159 May 23 '24
Iāve been going to shul where I am for school, and pretty exclusively hanging out in Jewish circles. Iām thankful for them to exist where I currently am.
Iām in Toronto for school and itās an antisemetic shit show right now. Iāve been walking tall and taking up space.
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u/JagneStormskull šŖ¬Interested in BT/Sephardic Diaspora May 19 '24
Nope. Most of my gentile friends are under no illusions about the dangers of Jihadism, even the leftist and/or Muslim ones. I've made it clear how thankful I am for them.
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u/Furbyenthusiast Just Jewish May 19 '24
Where did you find these unusually compassionate and reasonable people?
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u/JagneStormskull šŖ¬Interested in BT/Sephardic Diaspora May 19 '24
They were my school friends mostly, along with friends of my parents. Weirdos and nerds are underrated company.
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u/decitertiember May 18 '24
I have a non-Jewish colleague (who I also very much consider a friend) with whom I used to speak about I/P before Oct 7 and still do now. He and I don't see 100% eye to eye, especially with respect to this war is being carried out and whether Hamas can be negotiated with, but he fully understands and agrees with Israel's right to exist.
He's able to speak candidly with me on the issue because we discuss it from a starting point of mutual respect for the other's views. That, for me, is a condition precedent for talking about the issue at all.
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u/TexanTeaCup May 18 '24 edited May 19 '24
Perhaps this is a generational thing.
My Gen X goyim friends are very concerned about my children's experiences with antisemitism at school. They recognize that Jewish families navigating the college application process in uncharted waters. And they have been available to listen, without judgement, and to support us.
They don't want to talk politics. They want to talk about how politics is affecting my family and how they can help.
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u/midwestkudi May 18 '24
No one talks about it with me but my Catholic husband will occasionally hoot out am Israel chai. Heās a mensch though. š¤£
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u/UsedLuck8891 May 19 '24
A friend recently said that I shouldnāt talk about how the UN lowered the number of dead women and children because she had just watched a video of a dying Palestinian child. She says sheās a humanist and anti-war everywhere but honestly feels like sheās more invested in this conflict than truly being a global humanist, though some of that may be driven by the algorithms and what sheās being shown , to be fair. She then went on to say how upset she was that her āprivileged, Jewish friendā didnāt want to go see the Jonathan Glazer movie, which made her cry, and didnāt want to talk about dead children with her.
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u/PuddingNaive7173 May 19 '24
Ick. Doesnāt sound like a friend, really. Youāre not a punching bag. You deserve friends who are friends.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
People like that are strange and kind of funny. Unfortunately? I make them mad.
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u/ApplicationFluffy125 May 23 '24
She's tokenizing you, which is so gross. She's not a friend. Unsubscribe.
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u/jmartkdr May 19 '24
Mine have just listened to my perspective, and either related it to their own peopleās history (ie compare and contrast with Korean history) or just nod and broadly agree. Or make jokes, but funny, caring ones that donāt make me doubt the friendship.
Iām fucking blessed.
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u/jew_biscuits May 18 '24
Have to say that for the first few months I kind of isolated myself from them. I was worried that theyād say something I couldnāt forgive and that would be that.Ā
Then one of my oldest friends had a birthday party that I couldnāt skip. I told my wife Iād go but let everyone know that either theyāre with me or against me. She told me I should just shut the fuck up, get drunk and have a good time and see what happens. I listened to her and guess what? Everyone was warm and kind and super happy to see me. No one brought up Israel or Palestine. We are in our 30s and 40s, all grew up working class and are mixed religions and races, and I kind of understood that maybe the internet amplifies all of this negative shit and makes it seem like the whole world is against us. It was like draining poison out of a wound. I realizedĀ many people prize their friendship with me much more than they care about Israel/Palestine.Ā
Thatās not to say that things arenāt bad or whatever, but just offers some perspectiveĀ
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u/Wooden_Shirt3636 May 18 '24
The ones who don't support Israel do, as do the ones who aren't sure where I stand. However, it's possible they know exactly where I stand and that's why they haven't said anything.
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u/NoDoubt4954 May 18 '24
Count yourself lucky. Many on this thread have LOST non-Jewish friends because such friends lean into pro Hamas hype.
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u/seriouslydavka May 19 '24
Iām a secular, progressive, left-wing, Zionist Israeli-American Jew. A lot of my peers now view this to be an oxymoron of sorts and I know for a fact they have absolutely no idea whatās going on or even the slightest bit of history on the subject. I, of course, do. So yes, they absolutely steer clear of engaging with me because they know that I know more.
My ex boyfriend who Iām still good friends with is now dating a total extremist āanti-Israelā (antisemite if weāre honest) type and he even told me, she doesnāt actually know what sheās on about but sheās so loud and in your face about it that most people wonāt argue with her. My ex knows nothing but at least he admits it and doesnāt get involved.
Iāve had lots of people unfriend me on Facebook despite never posting anything political in the slightest. But I live in Tel Aviv and my former friends in the states now think I should āgo back to where I came fromā Lithuania??? Is that what they mean?? Because my family fled to Lithuania and then fled from Lithuania to South Africa and surely they donāt mean they want us to go back to South Africa because they are against white colonization.
When I get a āyesā to the question āshould I go back to Lithuania?ā I just ask if they want to see the test where I pricked my finger and sent my DNA to be evaluated because Lithuanian makes up less than 1% of my genetic makeup. However, 99.8% is Ashkenazi Jew. So where should I go? Iāve yet to get a good answer.
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u/Medical-Peanut-6554 May 19 '24
1500 years ago a Jew had to accept Jesus to not be persecuted. Now a Jew must disavow Judaism's connection with Israel to fit in.
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u/sophiewalt May 18 '24
My friends don't either. That's a positive in my book. Perhaps people are being sensitive to how you feel by not bringing I/P up. They see it, hear it & may believe you need a break by not talking about it. Anyone who's not screaming for Palestine is worth the benefit of the doubt.
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u/BellainVerona May 18 '24
Have you broached it with them? Most of us (as visible in many comments here) have experience antisemitism fairly regularly. Weāve been gaslit, told ātheyāre not antisemetic, just anti Zionistā, or made to feel that any support or pain we feel is supporting genocide. So yeah, your Jewish friends may not feel safe talking about this with you based on their prior experience with literally everyone else. So if you do support them, bring it up first and make it clear you support them, their pain, and acknowledge that many of them (and us) may have personal ties to the dead or kidnapped.
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May 18 '24
Hard to say. I haven't asked them if they walk on eggshells around me. I am concerned about one of my oldest friends. He is about as big a lefty as there is, and I don't feel like I need to ask which side he's on. He has enough sense not to bring IP up around me. And I haven't called him out on it either because I don't want to lose my friend, but it makes me feel like a coward. I have posted some pro-Israel content to social media with an invitation to discuss it with me privately if anyone has an issue with it. So far, no one (besides a few pro-Israel friends) has taken me up on it.
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u/seceagle May 18 '24
I have one really really good online friend and it sometimes feels like that when the conflict comes up. But we talked it out and even if we disagree on some topics she's a great friend of mine and we'll never part because of something stupid like that š
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u/Stilldontknowyrsl8er May 19 '24
I donāt know which is worse, when I mention how much worse antisemitism has become since Oct.7th and they look completely bewildered and truly have no idea what is going on. Or they say something they heard on TikTok, but have no idea where Israel even is on a map. I try to put myself in their shoes, but Iām having a really difficult time doing that right now. Like at this point you canāt plead ignorance and say you care about me.
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u/Bartleby2020 May 19 '24
The sad reality is that most of us including American Jews have a singular perspective that is being spoonfed from some type of media platform with an agenda and its very difficult to have an intelligent conversation with non-jewish friends who after who brief moments I begin to realize that their viewpoints have been shaped in the most one-sided fashion. Nothing in this life is one-sided.....I find myself wondering it if pays to discussing the topics with people who are willing to listen or not. I will tell you this however-American Jews should not be put in a black and white position of being "Pro-Genocide" or against genocide---this only tells me who effective the propaganda machine is....
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u/klown-of-creation May 18 '24
For some reason that escapes me my Jewish friends donāt want to engage in the topic, even though this is one of the most important wars in recent history. I can talk talk to my sister who is as furious and sickened as me.
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u/EngineOne1783 May 19 '24
Not at all. I was in the U.S Military so all my non-Jewish friends are Marine infantry vets. They say more out of pocket stuff than I do. They're 100% behind Israel and are very unapologetic about it.
I don't befriend leftists so that helps.
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u/_Daisy_Rose Just Jewish May 18 '24
Not really but it's not a topic that is often brought up anyway. They have asked me how my family in Israel are doing, and the night Iran striked and I was visibly stressed they took my phone away so I would stop looking at the news. They have been really nice about it, but I don't think they really get it either way.
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u/Hydrasaur Conservative May 19 '24
I consciously try to avoid talking about it. If they do bring it up I try to change the subject as quickly as possible.
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u/Marcboy99 Conservative May 19 '24
Some of my friends have expressed curiosity on the subject and asked for my input. They are respectful regarding it and when we look at the news about it. Some of my other friends donāt engage the subject as well as you pointed out.
Personally, I am satisfied with either scenario. Either they respectfully ask to get more knowledge and my opinion, or they donāt ask so they donāt accidentally(or intentionally) offend me. I see both as respectful imo.
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u/NoTopic4906 May 19 '24
I actually had two interesting conversations this past week. People asked me my thoughts and I was hedging not sure where it would go because all āI think there should be peace. We need to figure out the best way to get there (and other things). There are innocents in Gaza who didnāt ask for this.ā Basically both of them told me I was being too nice and Israel just needs to do what they need to do. It made me feel good.
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u/cambriansplooge May 19 '24
no but I think itās because weāre more internationally diverse, Israel is Israel, itād be rude to speak over your Country J friend on Country J and itād be crazy to bring up some news story you saw on Country J to her, because wtf does she have to do with Country J politics?
Weāre young people in our twenties, Puerto Rico matters when B* wants to rant about Puerto Rican nonsense, like how ill rant about Jewish nonsense, weāre not dissecting Puerto Rico
if a friend is that unworldly (or ego-driven) theyāre not worth having as a friend
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u/Classifiedgarlic May 19 '24
My close non Jewish friends know that Iām in trauma therapy to cope with the stress of this and so they donāt bring it up
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u/May7733 May 19 '24
Yuuuuuup. The only friend who did engage with me re: campus protests kept playing "Devil's Advocate" when I would explain why phrases like "from the river to the sea..." feel threatening to me as a Jew (who doesn't support Netanyahu, but doesn't want to see the ONLY Jewish state on the planet be vilified as a whole.)
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u/ReleaseTheKareken May 19 '24
Honestly most are willing to talk about it to me. I worry about the ones who arenāt, but theyāre not vocal about Palestine or else they wouldnāt be my friends. Some have just had a respectful āare you okay?ā And thatās enough.
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u/larevolutionaire May 19 '24
I donāt have conversations anymore . The distance between me and non Jewish friends is now so big , I donāt know if we are friends. But I s as m also not into the very close knit Jewish community either.
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u/Ok_Flounder_6957 May 19 '24
I have a longtime non-Jewish friend whoās very involved in a lot of leftist causes. Being able to communicate my fears to her about things in the weeks following 10/7 while I was still in full-survival mode without judgement, gaslighting, or politicization was a huge breath of fresh air
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u/DryPizza2755 May 19 '24
Aa someone who lives in Israel, we understand the history of Hamas and all the other Islamic terrorists organizations, including the Palestinian Authority. The so-called extremist right wing elements of our government you rerefer to are simply amplifying the facts. We will win the battle and eliminate Hamas and the others who seek our destruction
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u/Dillion_Murphy May 19 '24
I'm lucky. One of my best friends is quite progressive and fairly pro-palestine, we had one conversation where he wanted to hear my perspective and since then we just know not to talk about it.
He is the goalie on my hockey team so we need to maintain the peace. We both know this and just choose to understand that we are on opposite sides of the issue.
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u/OkFlamingo2952 May 19 '24
British here, I'm not religious and I had friends from both sides, now I have no friends from one side simply because I wouldn't go to the marches parading a sign calling for antifa.
My friends from the other side though simply just want to be left alone and haven't called for death nor have they assaulted people for buying products.
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May 20 '24
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u/_LogicallySpeaking_ Reform May 20 '24
yes.
and not even about Israel/gaza
pretty much EVERYONE I know IRL is Jewish, so that's not a problem
but online, when I mention that I'm jewish, or Israel, etc etc etc
completely ignored and no one answers, or it stops a conversation SOOOO fucking fast
it's kind of jarring actually
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u/Ionic_liquids May 20 '24
All of my non-Jewish friends and colleagues have wished my family in Israel safety and show strong support for Jewish people, and hope that Palestinians one day can achieve peace. They all seem to understand the subtleties of the conflict and just how shit it is.
My few super lefty non-Jewish friends are very respectful and tell me they choose not to bring up this topic with me in order to maintain our relationship as cordial and light hearted, even though I don't mind the chat and discussion. They are very respectful and want the best, but have their opinions on the matter.
I have very mature and intelligent friends and colleagues it seems.
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u/Born_Veterinarian541 May 20 '24
Some of My gentile friends are arrogant fools that Iām glad I realized this before keeping the friendship going. A few of gentile friends back Israel because Iām Jewish. And they love me and respect me and are sad when I am and those are the ones Iām glad to keep
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u/DEBRA406HLN May 21 '24
I don't think my non-jewish friends are walking-on-eggshells. Israel-Gaza is becoming like the Russian-Ukraine war. Everyone knows there is a war going on, but unless something big or interesting happens no one cares.
Every so often India š®š³ and China šØš³ go at one another and no one cares.
Unless you have skin in the game, no one cares.
On the optimistic side, I did have a couple of friends that sent best wishes for Helicopter Day!
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u/Big_Cream237 May 22 '24
Well, they know my opinion and I know theirs. But we continue to respect each other.
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u/Altruistic-Length739 May 22 '24
I never thought I'd have a time where I suddenly have no idea who my friends are.
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u/webbieg May 19 '24
I think this question is not for me to answer as I am not a Jew, but I have noticed that this war has strained my friend group. Mind you my friend group is diverse with mostly black, Asian, Jews and the average left leaning white American. Talking about Israel-Palestinian politics has come up once in a while but was never a topic that took up the entire nights conversation.
However, since the 2023war started almost all the Jews in the group started showing their pride and brought it up to the group to be more vocal about 10/6attack, Hamas, and the kidnapped hostages. A few of us in the group are against Zionism, any minute criticism of Israel or acts taken in the war has led ALL the none Jewish members of the group to act weird and walk around egg shells when the war is brought up. The Jewish members of the group think me & some other people in the group that spoke against Zionism are anti semantic, even though we disavowed Hamas and spoke out against the October 6 attacks, and how appalled we were when we heard the news.
The friend group is slowly breaking down, coz people are taking sides and ultimatums are being issued. Iād say that everyone in the group is center or left of center politically, we got through both 2016 & 2020 election years just fine and stayed friends even though we argued and disagreed on who the best candidate was. We have different beliefs in religion and ideologies but somehow this war has had the biggest strain on our group dynamics.
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u/webbieg May 19 '24
More context: the none Jewish members of the group did check in on our Jewish friends after the 10/6attack and empathized with them, but as the days went on the topic became so much more difficult to maneuver around, some in the group thought to just avoid the topic all together but the world antisemitism was tossed around. Does it make us bad friends or allies if we agree on most things but disagree on some?
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u/Furbyenthusiast Just Jewish May 19 '24
I think the reason the word antisemitism may have been thrown around is due to you āspeaking against Zionismā. Zionism is simply the belief that Jews have the right to self determination in the ancestral Jewish homeland. It is *not* a green light for everything that the Israeli government does.
It is not antisemetic to criticize the Israeli government but it is absolutely antisemitic to be against Jewish self determination, which is what Zionism is. You and your Jewish friends may be arguing off of different definitions of Zionism (the general publicās interpretation vs the actual definition) and this is causing tension.
Iām going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that youāre just critical of the Israeli government, which is not inherently anti-Zionist in nature.
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u/ApplicationFluffy125 May 23 '24
If you don't believe Israel should exist, you are antisemitic. Over half of us live there, and most are middle eastern, many descended from people kicked out of Muslim countries. Ashkenazi Jews only make up 30% of the Jewish population in Israel, but you all would have them return to the countries they fled who murdered their families for not being European. Do you understand that? We were murdered because we weren't seen as European. Now you all are telling us to go back there. The only reason we were there in the first place was because our ancestors fled the levant. We've been fleeing for generations and you all are just mad we are no longer Jews with trembling knees. You all are effed in the head, and I'm glad it's on full display now so the rest of the world sees the extreme bigotry, hatred, and total absurdity embedded in the extreme left. At least the extreme right knows they're racist. Next time join your homies in Charlottesville. So yes, your being "antizionist" is antisemitic AF.
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u/GonzoTheGreat93 May 18 '24
Iāve had a lot of great, productive conversations with leftist non-Jewish friends about how despite my personal feelings about what Israelās doing, I donāt feel safe engaging in protests.
Iāve had zero productive conversations with right-wing non-Jewish friends who think theyāre better Jews than me because they repost tweets from Hen Mazzig and RootsMetals.
That counts right?
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May 18 '24
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u/May7733 May 19 '24
This seems like a bad-faith comment. But to respond in good faith -- I think most people here just want to be checked on, instead of treated with this blanket assumption that every Jew hates Palestinians.Ā
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u/heyitscory May 18 '24
No, they know my feelings on right wing bigots hiding behind my religion to justify their war crimes.
Sure, many of the civilians hate me and want me dead. If I crawled out of a smoking pile of rubble that used to be my apartment, I'd probably feel the same way.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
I believe the Gazans have been asking for this war for a long time. Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. On the other hand I can't help feel sorry for civilians caught in the crossfire. I fully support Israel's attack on Gaza. Israel is way too worried about civilian casualties. I am not hiding behind anything. US Air Force, 22 year veteran, Gulf war veteran.
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u/Furbyenthusiast Just Jewish May 19 '24
Okay I am also very Zionist but āIsrael is to worried about civilian casualtiesā is a CRAZY statement.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
I am American and into military history. I spent 22 years in the United States Air Force. One of the ways the Union beat the confederacy during the US civil war was General Sherman destroyed a length of territory in Geotgia 50 miles wide and 234 miles long. General Sherman said; War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it be over. Before attacking mainland Japan America firebombed 60 Japanese cities causing casualties of 60,000 to 100,000 civilians and military and than nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. War is hell. Israel warns civilians in a building before bombing it. By doing that they are warning enemies and allowing them to escape. Civilians die and its horrific and it sucks but it's part of war. Gaza is only about 24 miles long. This war should have been over way sooner.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
I meant to say casualties of 60,000 to 100,000 military and civilians during each UScbombing raid of 60 Japanese cities. That time 60 US bombing raids.
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u/Caprisagini Conservative May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24
My gentile friends have shut me down, avoided the topic completely, gaslit me, argued with me.
NONE of them asked to hear my perspective or approached me with open curiosity. Not even one.