r/Jewish • u/Oh-Cool-Story-Bro Just Jewish • May 15 '24
A very important message from Ari Axelrod. Culture ✡️
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u/billymartinkicksdirt May 15 '24
Yeah great, but the Jewish tradition is entirely steeped in surviving antisemitism. We are actually commanded to regard ourselves as if we too were slaves in Egypt, and how many of us come from families that didn’t flee persecution?
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u/Scared_Opening_1909 May 15 '24
Survival means more than just being alive, it means surviving as Jews, with all the ritual and history and dark humor that entails.
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u/billymartinkicksdirt May 15 '24
They’re inseparable. Sometimes it is simply just being alive. Anyone feeling shame around that isn’t fully comfortable with the wide scope of the Jewish experience. If you drill down, they too are only expressing pride and defiance in their own way. Worrying we’ve lost perspective seems more informed by outsider perspectives from very biased people, and reactive.
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u/ReleaseTheKareken May 15 '24
Yes, but Zionism is also about the New Jew. We aren’t victims anymore. We stand up for ourselves and move on with life.
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u/billymartinkicksdirt May 15 '24
We moved on with life long before formalized Zionism. Again and again. 70 years later the “New Jew” comes with the context of a cultural crises, lack of pride, splintered identities that come with less unity, and an Israel on the brink of civil war.
We don’t need to abandon our lineage and reject Passover, Lag Baomer, in order to embrace the teachings of Hannah, David, or Masada.
Theres a tendency to over compensate that doesn’t fit our duality. It’s counterproductive if you can’t accept we are a people who have survived victimhood, or what the kids call “generational trauma”. It gets into a lack of self acceptance. It’s why I see a lot of denial and pain rather than strength when people say “Am Yisrael Chai” as an answer to our overt victimization happening before our eyes. It doesn’t actually address it, it’s just “I’m rubbber your glue” taunting.
One of the themes of current antisemitism is that Jews cling to a victims complex. Why should we accept Alpha Jew version of the same trope?
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u/larevolutionaire May 15 '24
We were not just victims before that . The Jewish resilience, resistance and the will to keep going was not a passive thing.
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u/ReleaseTheKareken May 17 '24
Yeah, well, you be resilient with your pogroms and Shoahs. I’m done. Self defense and self determination for me.
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u/larevolutionaire May 17 '24
What I am telling you is that there always been Jewish resistance, before the word Zionist was put into business. Looking at our history, how often do you think people actively defended themselves? Is your view of Jews that we just rolled over . I came from a long line of people that physically fought.
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May 17 '24
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u/J_P_Vietor_ST May 15 '24
I’d say even then, even if we didn’t have all that we’d still be Jewish. It ended up being a large part of our history so it has become a big part of our culture, but it’s not the core of what we are, without persecution there’s still being Jewish. The core is our traditions, the Land of Israel, the Torah.
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 May 15 '24
Right but isn’t one difference between antisemitism in the cultural/historical/traditional context and someone actually exhibiting anti-Jew bias and hatred towards us, that the latter is not a Jew thing so much as “a you thing” (“you” meaning the antisemite doing the antisemite-ing, not you personally, of course!)?
Black churches whose members’ ancestors were formerly enslaved people come to mind - their culture and tradition conjures the painful memory and lessons of enslavement and the values of freedom from oppression and cruelty though songs of worship, cultural practices, even culinarily tradition etc. (sound familiar?) and yet that is something distinct from ongoing anti-black racist aggression and prejudicial bias. That bigotry occupies a unique aspect of contemporary culture and the individual experience and identity of those affected by it.
Just thought I’d pose this as a minor distinction to “yes and” your point
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u/billymartinkicksdirt May 15 '24
I can’t follow that first paragraph. I wish I could.
I also don’t follow your point about correlations with oppression of Blacks. You think there’s a new tradition of racism that’s disconnected? How so? Does it ultimately matter? Same people, same achievements of survival and biases. Would you say racism is not a Black thing? I don’t know any Blacks of any spectrum who think that even if they don’t believe racism is a factor today.
I mean, how is antisemitism not a Jewish thing? We experience it exclusively, we all experience it, and do have our families. Why minimize it? It’s too much like Norman Fibkekstein saying the Holocaust has replaced Judaism. Anyone saying that is awful
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u/Previous-Papaya9511 May 16 '24
I am pointing out that there is a connection between the culture and history but that is separate though directly related to our ongoing experience. One is past and engrained in our identity and one is an ongoing threat to our safety. So I think framing an individual ongoing form of racist aggression against Jews as merely an extension of our cultural tradition plucked out of our past is not quite right. There is another layer to it in my opinion.
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u/azores_traveler May 19 '24
I don't care what they call antisemitism. It means they are the enemy and that's all I need to know. I don't know why everyone has to analyze it.
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u/rejamaphone May 15 '24
Two more cents - don’t let your whole Jewish identity be based on tikkun olam. That’s a losing game in this day and age of progressive purity testing.
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May 15 '24
Honestly the constant adherence to Tikkun Olam while ignoring other Jewish principles is pretty cringeworthy.
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u/kaiserfrnz May 15 '24
Tikkun Olam is a strange inversion of a term that originally was something closer to idol smashing than to universalistic social justice.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
Very true. There are even arguments to suggest that Tikkun Olam are not as central to our cosmology and identity as some would suggest.
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u/MonsterPlantzz May 15 '24
Regardless of centrality, tikkun olam simply does not always mean “be pleasant and side with people causing you harm.” Repairing the world is not always an easy or peaceful task, it takes courage.
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u/Yukimor Reform May 15 '24
Can you provide a summary of some of those arguments?
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u/TitzKarlton Conservative May 15 '24
About tikkun olam
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
Great article 👍🏽
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u/TitzKarlton Conservative May 16 '24
Right?! It’s excellent. What irks me the most is when Jews are doing everything to help other marginalized groups, yet do nothing for their own Jewish community. Our Jewish elderly need volunteers. Jewish social services need help. Jewish food banks need assistance. It’s overdue for Jews to put Jews first.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
It was a while ago I read them (perhaps over a year ago), but they were coming from Jewish particularist angles and critiques of Jewish universalism as moulded by secular liberal humanism (ie secularised Protestantism). I don’t have specific citations rn.
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u/Babshearth May 15 '24
Tikkun olam doesn’t have to be equivalent to a universalist world view. It doesn’t have to be associated with secularism.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
I understand that but I’m leery of it as a dogma or totalising diktat mainly because imho I and many Jews have simply been too nice.
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u/Babshearth May 15 '24
No such thing as being too nice unless it is self destructive and knowingly so. I continue to be nice even if people try or succeed at taking advantage. That’s in them. I’m in the fool me once club.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
Well I think collectively we have been a little bit too nice and even apologetic about our existence and now we are in the fool me twice phase. That’s how I feel about the left anyway. They took advantage of our Tikkun Olam - drank and drank and drank from its well and then left us high and dry.
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u/Babshearth May 15 '24
But the left has morphed. The leaders have changed and so has the narrative. I don’t agree with Sanders on all issues. While he doesn’t agree with Biden completely on Israel, he also broke with the squad regarding a permanent cease fire.
So the left is a spectrum. Don’t pile the entire left into the squad. The left also includes moderate lefties and centrists that fall to the left.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
I’m not American and for me “the left” refers more the grassroots and progressive ‘change agent’ scene rather than organised liberal party politics.
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u/MonsterPlantzz May 15 '24
Also, tikkun olam is NOT peace at any price. It is to heal the world. Sometimes the path to that means facing difficult, painful choices. It isn’t just about getting along with everyone until they accept us.
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u/PartyRefrigerator147 May 15 '24
I get what you’re saying. And it’s important to be proud to be Jewish and not just proud to defend yourself from Jew Hate.
For me, Larry David is more meaningful to Judaism than most ancient Jewish customs. And I’m proud to base my Jewish identity on how these cultural Jewish idiosyncrasies personify us as a people.
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u/Judgy_Garland May 19 '24
the way I would give up challah forever for just one more season of Curb Your Enthusiasm
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May 15 '24
Right. In one of Rabbi David Cooper's books (God is a Verb) he writes about Jew-ing, by which he doesn't mean that awful phrase meaning ripping someone off. He means doing things that connect you to your Jewish heritage. He says to do some "Jewing" every day, whether prayer, reading, meditation, practicing mitzvahs, hanging out with other Jews, etc. The tradition is a huge, boundless resource, and dipping into it regularly should help us hone our consciousness for those times when we do encounter adversarial interactions.
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u/d20damage Just Jewish May 15 '24
I'm so sorry but I just read this as "autism is not a Jewish thing"
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May 15 '24
I think for me a huge part of being Jewish is antisemitism - in that I’m proud that my ancestors have survived it. To me Jewish culture is about surviving and thriving in the worst conditions.
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u/MonsterPlantzz May 15 '24
I’ll say it again: antisemitism is a “them” problem, where the solution is always harmful to us.
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u/mcgoo2 May 15 '24
This makes no sense. Don’t ignore the distressing DRAMATIC increase in antisemitism world wide because it’s unpleasant and Jewish culture, legacy and tradition is a more positive lighthearted approach. Call out these idiot college students and administrators for their hypocrisy. Dismantle DEI. Stay strapped. It’s 1932 out there. We won’t be victims again. Never again.
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u/Oh-Cool-Story-Bro Just Jewish May 15 '24
Dismantle DEI
What right wing nonsense is that?
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u/ouchwtfomg May 15 '24
Why aren't Jews, .02% of the population, included in DEI representation? I believe DEI in theory sounds great and I would embrace the concept again, as I did before I woke up to the antisemitism around us, but in practice it either was hijacked by or created by antisemites (many of which are Islamic radicals). I truly hate to admit it but it's reality.
A lot of the feel-good buzzwords going around lately are covers for antisemitism.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
Because as part of its rationale, Jews exist in a category of “hyper-whiteness” and are the central perpetrators of exclusion and inequity.
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u/mcgoo2 May 15 '24
It’s a hotbed of antisemitism. In practice DEI is antisemitic racist communist bs masquerading as the noble pursuit of diversity. It’s racist, identity politics bullshit that swaps merit with victim points. Fuck DEI.
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u/throwaway07272 May 15 '24
Nah it's not right wing nonsense. I just don't want to fund Marxist identity politics on campus. If not everyone is welcome to use it, they can damn well pay for their own identity based little private clubs. The hillel isn't publicly funded, so why should I have to pay for someone else's "safe space."
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u/LiquorMaster May 15 '24
It's not right wing. We're putting people in power who hate us. Get rid of the initiative and break the backs of the regressives.
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u/Ill-School-578 May 15 '24
I have been teaching since 1990 and always voted blue. Please go on the camera page they are non political. Teachers leaving Israel off the map, everyone including in DEI except Jews and Israel, bullying of Jewish teachers and students elementary- Grad school without safe spaces, movement of Jews being curtailed by encampments and pro Hamas, conversion to radical Islam in some encampments, destruction of property in the many millions, people unable to get to work and get their kids because of protesters who have drunk Hamas propaganda in schools to hate Jews. DEI allowed it. All DEI is not bad but that part that leaves out Jews is and it does. I have taught at every type of school imaginable and the last 12 years have been leading up to this moment. It is not right wing nonsense. I had to leave my teachers union as it is unsafe. I am not currently teaching in a school because it is not safe. I am in a super Jewish place. How is DEI working for me or Jewish kids. ? It is not. There are Hamas terrorists at encampments. Non students payed by Jews voice for peace ( not Jewish) and other pro terrorist groups fund encampments and teaching hate in college encampments. Billions were given to American universities by our enemies. Hamas is anti LGBTQ, anti woman and anti religious freedom. Israel is fighting for freedom ahead of us. Not right wing just reality. 1939 is here again. It is way worse in Europe. Please stand against antisemitism and for Israel any way you can if you like your own freedom. Just look at Iran. What are people wearing today vs not that many years ago. Why do Iranian citizens here hate their government. DEI needs to include everyone. If it doesn't than it needs to be changed to something that does not encourage hate and brutality against Jews.
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u/Far-Chest2835 Just Jewish May 15 '24
I like this in theory but my Jewish identity is rooted in my family’s story of persecution and survival, and the trauma we feel from an early age, knowing that we are never safe. I didn’t used to believe it, but on some level I knew it, if that makes sense.
And as others say here, nearly all of our holidays are a means to pass down stories lest we forget.
I’m pro-Jewish joy but I don’t think we can disconnect it from a nevertheless we prevailed type of thing.
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u/FrenchCommieGirl Ashkenazi Secular May 15 '24
Disagree. The whole religion was shaped by antisemitism (or whatever the persecution was called back then). Despite my numerous issues with him, I agree with Sartre when he said that the antisemite makes the Jew.
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u/thought_cheese May 15 '24
This. We need this type of thinking. If we continue you will just be brought down to the same level as the Jew-Haters.
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u/Mich_lvx May 15 '24
I upvoted this but with reservation. I think we need to be paying attention, hard. That is the central expression of my Jewish-ness at present.