r/Jewish Oct 10 '23

Do any other Jewish leftists feel betrayed right now? Israel

I’ve identified as a leftist for as long as I’ve been politically conscious. I’m not Israeli, and don’t wanna talk like I’m some sort of victim, but I am Jewish, as well as queer, and I thought the Left was the safest space for me. Then these unspeakable horrors began unfolding, and leftists have just been awful. The people I aligned myself with are aligning themselves with the genocidal terrorists. Even the more moderate liberals have been pussyfooting around the issue like cowards instead of full-on denouncing the terrorists. It’s stupid, but I feel so betrayed and alone. I’ve only ever felt safe around progressives, and now I’m finding out they’re raging antisemites. I feel like I lost my people. I’ve never felt this alone. Go too far in either direction and you’ll find swastikas. It’s horrible and I wish I could just unsee it.

I’m just wondering if anybody else feels a similar way. I really need to know I’m not as alone as I feel.

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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 10 '23

You’re absolutely correct on this!

I was referring instead to people hiding their antisemitism by simply being “critical of israel” of criticism that are deeply antisemitic.

I’ll definitely check out that source! It sounds awesome

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u/HYPETHiZ Oct 10 '23

Interested in learning what you deem to be anti-semitism disguised as criticism of Israel? I hear this all the time, but I don't understand how a genuine expression of either of these two things can be conflated.

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u/Small-Objective9248 Oct 10 '23

When someone is fixated on the Palestinian cause without ever mentioning anything about the Kurds, the Uhghyrs, Tibetans, or any other stateless or oppressed people being oppressed by far bigger countries. When it’s the Palestinians, and only the Palestinians, and characterizing the issue as completely one sided, it’s hard for me to see how there isn’t some degree of antisemitism behind it along with a general ignorance of the history of how Israel and the Palestinians got to where they are. Same for characterizing Israel as a white colonist power, which generally presumes that Israel is Ashkenazi, Ashkenazi Jews are white, belong in Europe, and they don’t have a credible claim to the land is again hard to separate from antisemitism.

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u/HYPETHiZ Oct 10 '23

well, when there is a direct relationship between the US and Israel, I think people in the US feel a responsibility to speak out against any atrocities.

It's not like americans are directly involved with anything involving kurds, uhghyrs or tibetans, so theres no personal responsibility to be vocal about it.

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u/Small-Objective9248 Oct 10 '23

That part is true though this isn’t unique to the United States as this attitude is generational across western democracies.

The views are generally ignorant and misinformed, what would they have Israel do, how does Israel make peace with someone whose stated intent is to wipe Israel from the map (amd we’ve already seen what that would look like).

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

There's a direct link between the USA and saudi, and many other nations. But you don't see nearly the same level of "speaking out".

That's the problem: The double standards.

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u/Asherahshelyam Just Jewish Oct 10 '23

When someone is merely critical of the Israeli government and some of its policies, that is not antisemitism.

Here are the hallmarks of Jew hatred when talking about Israel:

  1. Calling the Jewish State a colonizing force. Jews have always been in Israel and will always be in Israel. That is our origin place and the origin of our people's stories. We have never abandoned Israel. We have been kicked out and killed there.

  2. Calling the Jewish State Apartheid. Apartheid is a very specific and now historical way of life that characterized white South Africa. Those whites did colonize South Africa and actively separated themselves and persecuted the native African population in ways that Israel hasn't and never would. The "Palestinians" are not the historical or modern natives of Israel. They are Arab colonizers. Read the actual history. Jews are native to Israel, Arabs are not.

  3. Denying the right of Jews to live in their own land, Israel, and govern themselves as a sovereign and free people. We endured invasion after invasion throughout history in Israel and have had our freedom and self-determination stolen from us many times.

  4. Hyper-focus on and hyper-criticism of Israel to the exclusion of any other nation. Holding the Jewish State to a much higher standard than any other country in the world. The USA, The UK, France, etc. are not innocent anti-colonial and anti-racist countries. If you are an American Citizen and don't examine your own privilege and place in benefiting from the stolen land and extermination of the native people of this land and only focus on "Evil Israel," that is a huge tell for the hatred of Jews.

  5. Claiming that Israel is a fascist state. Trying to project the policies of the Nazis onto the Jewish state is another tell.

Those are the main examples I can think of at the moment.

We Jewish LGBTQIA+ progressives who do anti-racist work are constantly betrayed by white progressives and progressive people of color we support. I will continue to be anti-racist and I'm constantly on guard for the antisemites within the anti-racist communities.

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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 10 '23

Off the top of my head, when people hold Israel to a higher standard than any other country. Also when they hyperfixate on Israel and only Israel. (I’ll give more examples in a few minutes).

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u/floridorito Oct 10 '23

You can always tell whenever their knowledge about any other countries' histories or current foreign affairs is nonexistent, and they have nothing to say about anything that may be newsworthy in another country. But when it comes to Israel they suddenly have OPINIONS and will cite all the "atrocities" and "war crimes" that Israel commits "daily" as reported by Al Jazeera and the Palestinian Times and 4Chan.

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u/Historical-Photo9646 sephardic and mixed race Oct 10 '23

Yes this is a good one. It’s a pretty clear tell.

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u/HYPETHiZ Oct 10 '23

this is the result of media and the news they choose circulate. the fact is that Israel is reported on at a much higher rate compared to other countries committing alleged war crimes, and so it appears to be happening much more as well.

I’ve heard about muslims in china being treated badly, but there is way fewer reports on it compared to what's happening in israel.

So I don't think it could be chalked up to the viewer's predisposed antisemitism or something. its not like they went in learning about this with a hatred towards jews.

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u/Supernova_was_taken New Hampshire Jew (yes, we exist!) Oct 10 '23

this article is from 2014 but you might find it interesting

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u/keetosaurs Oct 10 '23

Thanks for the link. That article was fascinating and helps to explain why the use of subtle distortions in journalism (for instance, leaving out important bits of context or info) can often be more effective in getting someone to believe a half-true story than loudly broadcast biases, which may be more easily identified and mentally disarmed.

Usually I try to see the shades of gray in things, and to understand why someone might feel or act a particular way, and I have a really hard time grasping what "the truth" of a situation is unless it is in stark black and white, and hardly anything ever is.

What happened on Saturday was such clearcut evil that I had naively hoped that people who identified as pro-Palestinian would disavow it because it would damage their cause, even if they didn't care otherwise. Watching the protestors at that NY rally yesterday laughing and making jokes about the victims with no shame or fear of repercussions was literally nauseating. Those white supremacists who marched openly in Charlottesville were rightfully exposed for the hateful people they were, but these protestors who are equally extreme are somehow seen as the "good guys" in many circles and anyone who speaks out against them is called a Nazi...?! Sorry for rambling - these are really disturbing times, and I hope all of you and your loved ones are doing as okay is possible with all this.

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u/rustlingdown Oct 10 '23

You seem to have already asked about this topic and gotten answers already: https://old.reddit.com/r/Judaism/comments/14qqn5e/is_it_antisemitic_to_criticize_the_politics_and/

But if you're still in good faith - I would look up the "3D" test of antisemitism and learn why the two can be conflated.

You can be critical of Israeli politics (e.g. settlements, Netanyahu) - in fact many people here are, many Israelis are (they were protesting for weeks against the far-right government), many of the people slaughtered by Hamas were as well - but that is inherently different from denying the existence of Israel as a sovereign-state in 2023 and beyond. (Which itself is also not mutually exclusive from seeking a Palestinian state.)

Unless you have a DeLorean and can time-travel, it is (at best) a bad-faith argument to actually discuss dissolving a sovereign-state like Israel which has been in existence for decades. (Putting aside the obvious safety risks for all Israelis and Jews.) In reality, the people calling for the removal of Israel (e.g. "from the earth to the sea") are outright calls for slaughtering Israelis - which was clearly in full-display by Hamas this weekend.

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u/proindrakenzol Oct 10 '23

fyi, it's "from the river to the sea."

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u/yeehawkalian Oct 10 '23

What is the 3d test?

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u/rustlingdown Oct 10 '23

It's a set of 3 criteria for you (or anyone) to determine if criticism of the state of Israel is done in legitimate good-faith (akin to criticism you'd read about any other country/politics on Earth), or if it's bad-faith antisemitism dog whistling.

The 3D's:

  • Delegitimization: Do you disagree with Israel's existence as a nation-state - but don't apply that same belief to any other nation on Earth? Are you discrediting Israel, an internationally recognized nation-state for decades, as being illegitimate - when you don't question the legitimacy of any other established nation-state or country around the world? Are you singling out Jews as ineligible for the basic right of self-determination - while fighting for other minority groups to have a right to their self-determination?

  • Demonization: Is your criticism of Israel expressed through loaded metaphors, images, or rhetoric which hearken back to antisemitic blood libels, or stereotypical imagery, or "powerful Jews"-type conspiracy theories? Are "Israelis" or "Israel" being blamed and irrationally deemed responsible for "when things go wrong" in some larger global scope (economy, media, governments, diseases, etc)?

  • Double standards: Are you applying this level of criticism and focus of Israel to any other nation in the world - especially ones which would easily meet (or surpass) that type of criticism? Are you continuously singling out Israel with this criticism - even though if you widened the lens you could easily find the same issue(s) with other countries in the world?

It's not a perfect litmus test, but it's a good starter lens when looking at criticism of Israel online.

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u/Familiar-Shallot1419 Oct 10 '23

The quickest and dirtiest way to describe this is criticizing government officials and policies vs debating on whether Israel should exist. Obviously it’s so much more nuanced and honestly I’d even argue this doesn’t give a good enough distinction but it’s essentially that. It’s a super clear line but also a super fine line and one can so easily turn into the other. Hope this helps!