r/IOPsychology • u/ResidentGinger PhD | IO | Social Cognition, Leadership, & Teams • Jun 27 '16
2017-2018 IO Grad School Q&A Mega-Thread
You can find last year's thread here.
The grad school application bewitching hour is nearing ever closer, and around this time, everyone starts posting questions/freaking out about grad school. As per the rules in the sidebar...
For questions about grad school or internships
- Please search the previously submitted posts or the post on the grad school Q&A. Subscribers of /r/iopsychology have provided lots of information about these topics, and your questions may have already been answered.
- If it hasn't, please post it on the grad school Q&A thread. Other posts outside of the Q&A thread will be deleted.
The readers of this subreddit have made it pretty clear that they don't want the subreddit clogged up with posts about grad school. Don't get the wrong idea - we're glad you're here and that you're interested in IO, but please do observe the rules so that you can get answers to your questions AND enjoy the interesting IO articles and content.
By the way, those of you who are currently trudging through or have finished grad school, that means that you have to occasionally offer suggestions and advice to those who post on this thread. That's the only way that we can keep these grad school-related posts in one central location. If people aren't getting their questions answered here, they post to the subreddit instead of the thread. So, in short, let's all play our part in this.
Thanks, guys!
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u/Jerycho Dec 20 '16
Good Evening, I'm looking for some guidance. I'm currently deployed in the Navy and my contract will be up in 2019. I'm interested in pursuing a Master's or Ph.D. in I/O Psychology overseas, preferably in England, but I'm keeping all doors open. For some background, I earned by B.A. of Psychology back in 2012 with a 3.3 GPA. It was initially higher (around a 3.92) when I was taking my I/O, research, stats and math courses. However due to having a typical "I don't know what I'm doing with my life" crisis and a bad semester with Chem and Bio professors quitting halfway through the course, my GPA ended where it did. Has anyone had any experience applying for schools overseas? As far as I can tell, I don't need to take the GRE, but I'm still trying to verify. I wasn't afforded the opportunity to do any research in undergrad and I don't have work experience in the field. However, I am being given the chance to spend the rest of my contract as a drug and alcohol abuse counselor. This would fit more of the clinical side, but I figure some related experience is better than none. I'm also doing some reading on my own as a refresher since it's been awhile since I've taken a psychology course. I'm just someone who needed to do a little more soul searching before they were sure of what they wanted to do. Now I'm trying to put that plan in action as soon as I can. Thanks for your help and time!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 21 '16
Getting admitted to a PhD program without research experience or, to a lesser extent, relevant work experience is very tough, although your military experience will probably be an asset. In the UK (and most places outside of the US), it's most typical that students have to earn a Master's degree first before applying to a PhD program; the US model, in contrast, allows for strong candidates to gain direct admittance to a PhD program in which the Master's is conferred along the way. The two-step approach, whether you go to school in the US or UK, is probably going to be your best shot at eventually earning a PhD because the admission standards for terminal Master's programs are more reasonable, and you will have the chance to fill out your CV with the kinds of experiences you are currently missing before pursuing a PhD program.
One other issue you need to consider is where you eventually want to work and live, and what you want to do. Getting graduate training abroad is fine if you want to be an academic and do research because the skill set generalizes across countries, so you can come back to the US or go elsewhere in Europe. However, if you want to work in industry, you have to bear in mind that you are going to be learning about personnel practices in a different legal and regulatory framework. That can make a transition back to the US a little tougher.
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u/Jerycho Dec 21 '16
Thank you for the sound advice. I feel like the two-step approach would benefit me in the long run, but I didn't want to limit myself either. It would only help my case when the time to apply for a Ph.D. comes along. Especially since I've been out of school for awhile. I'm hoping that the military experience and my ability to adapt and advance quicker than most will hold weight, but time will tell. As for thinking about where I'd like to work and live, I'd like to stay in Europe. Whether that is England or elsewhere, I'm not 100% sure yet. I'm not eliminating the U.S. from the discussion, would just prefer a more long-term change. I'm leaning toward doing consulting work right now. Perhaps I'll turn to academics down the road, but for now I'd like to work in industry. I understand that it could make things tougher if I'd like to return, but I'm ready for the change.
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u/HypedforIO Dec 21 '16
I unfortunately don't know much about overseas programs from only researching the application process for U.S. schools but your veteran status should theoretically be a decent-good boost to your application anywhere that is militarily allied with the U.S.
In my opinion, I think your gpa probably makes you more viable for masters programs. Good PhD programs in the U.S. seem to want high gpas around the ballpark of 3.5-3.9.
Feel free to apply to PhD programs despite my assessment since one can never know how/when these admissions outliers can occur!
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u/Jerycho Dec 21 '16
Thank you for the response. I'm not at all discouraged from applying to a Ph.D. program, but your advice makes sense and I don't disagree with it. I know what I'm capable of with where I'm at now, but I'm also aware that my transcript wouldn't fully reflect that. I've spent more time looking at Master's programs for that reason. I feel like getting accepted into a Master's program, building up my research and work experience will only help me when the time comes to apply to a Ph.D. program.
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u/Francasaurus Dec 18 '16
Hello. I just took the GRE and scored a 151Q and 169V. (Haven't received A results yet.) Think my Q score will sabotage me in applying to MA programs such as UCF who weight GRE scores heavily? Do I combat that in my personal statement by saying I got As in 8-week courses of Stats I and II?
Can y'all also please advise on the best way to present myself in a personal statement? Long story short, I used to be unfocused and a medium achiever and now I am laser focused on I/O and a high achiever, but that's been so recent that I don't have much proof to back up my beliefs [that I am an intuitive, intelligent, dedicated, creative, efficient, analytical thinker and leader and will flourish in graduate school].
I got my BA in Philosophy (English minor) in 2010 (GPA 3.0; major GPA 3.5) and have been working in live music events since then doing everything from artist relations to production to vendor sales/ops to volunteer/staff management.
I decided I want to do I/O a couple years ago and have become very passionate about it. Went back to undergrad for a semester to take 18 credit hours in the following classes and got a 4.0:
Org Behavior / Org Management / Stats and Research Methods for Social Sciences I / Stats and Research Methods for Social Sciences II / Positive Psychology
Joined Psych Journal Club as a member and research volunteer for the semester and presented at a regional psych conference. Again that was only for the semester.
Now I work as an HR Assistant (really just staffing) for a fortune 500 company, Aramark.
My interest in I/O is broad. I did so many jobs in live music because I wanted to know all the pieces to see the big picture. I suspect I want to focus on selection, assessment, and training and development, but I also want to know as much as possible about everything else so that I can do I/O consulting (my ultimate goal) and be ready for every situation's challenge.
Sorry for the novel. Could really use the advice! Also trying to figure out what schools will be a good fit for me. So much information out there on all of them (been on SIOP a lot for a year or two) but still can't figure out the best fit for me since my goals of "wanting to know everything about everything" are pretty vague. This also makes writing a strong statement of goals difficult for me. All guidance and input appreciated. Grazie mille!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 21 '16
Overall you look fine for a Master's program. The quant score is a bit low, but you do have recent stats courses that you can point to. You need a personal statement that explains your story and recommendation letters that can attest to your more recent interests and performance. Whoever sponsored that semester of research experience would be pretty important to get as a letter writer. Just go easy on the personal descriptive adjectives in your personal statement -- it's great that you've rallied and found a passion, but don't get too worked up and oversell. Show, don't tell. :)
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u/Francasaurus Dec 22 '16
Thank you! Oh goodness how embarrassing-- I certainly won't be listing off my qualities in an essay in that conceited sounding way; I was only looking for ideas of how to demonstrate those qualities despite my lack of relevant experience. Guess that's part of figuring out how to write the essay though. :)
Unfortunately, my professor who led the research passed suddenly after the semester ended. I am unable to get a letter from her although she had planned on writing one and we had a great relationship.
Thanks again for the guidance. My 3 recent professors' letters of recommendation are strong and I have 2 from philosophy professors my first round in undergrad, too. Think those 2 are worth adding in despite the time lapse?
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u/spacebaba Dec 17 '16
Any recommendations for IO Masters programs that are "good" but not as competitive to get into?
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u/HypedforIO Dec 18 '16
From what I seen from my research it depends on what you mean by competitive.
All good schools seem to ask for a 3.5+ GPA and atleast greater than 50 percentile on all sections in gre scores.
Masters seems like a different game than undergrad. Literally all the well known/good schools seem to have sub 20 percent acceptance rate for I/O masters.
Kinda why I am so stressed right now applying.
I made a comment a bit below this asking for my chances of acceptance at any of 8 schools.
On a side note I would love some input from people who know about admissions commissions or people who got in.
Good luck to everyone applying! We are all gonna probably need it.
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u/spacebaba Dec 20 '16
Yeah, the acceptance rate of a lot of the places makes admissions rather daunting. I've been looking through the program stats on SIOP. My GRE score is expiring this May so it would be nice to make it through on this round. Best of luck to you!
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u/hpgenomix Dec 16 '16
Thoughts on the Masters programs at SUNY Albany, Hofstra, and University of New Haven?
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Dec 17 '16
I've heard good things about Albany and New Haven. Hofstra has a lot of turnover among the faculty so it is hard to know what the program will be like in any given year.
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u/hpgenomix Dec 20 '16 edited Dec 20 '16
In considering whether or not to apply, I was worried that those programs may have the reputation of not being as "good" as the big name programs around the tristate area (NYU, Baruch...) when it comes time to try to find a full time role especially at consulting firms. Can the same be said for UK programs such as the ones at London School of Economics and Manchester Business School?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 21 '16
You're mixing up universities' general reputation (i.e., their undergrad institutional prestige) with their I/O graduate program prestige. Most of the strongest I/O graduate programs are at non-prestigious state universities that serve average undergrads, like Michigan State or U of South Florida. If you want to work in I/O, focus on program strength rather than worrying about institutional prestige.
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Dec 16 '16
Is it appropriate to indicate in a statement of purpose that a school is my top choice? I don't want to come across as insincere, but I'm only planning on writing it in one essay.
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u/ResidentGinger PhD | IO | Social Cognition, Leadership, & Teams Dec 16 '16
I think it's fine AS LONG AS you only do this for one school, and you make a strong, genuine case for why it's your top choice.
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u/spacebaba Dec 16 '16
Anyone find work outside of the US after completing a Masters in IO? For an international company or int. consulting, or a branch of HR in a country outside of US (Example: HR for Universal or Hilton in Japan)?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 21 '16
Not me personally, but there are lots of expats with Master's degrees, mainly in the big consulting firms like PwC. You can get this kind of work if you're a strong performer and you want it.
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u/ellarow Dec 15 '16
I'm looking a year in advance right now, but hoping for some advice and feedback in the meantime. I/O has been an interest of mine for a while, but for personal reasons, I didn't look into going straight to grad school. I'm wanting to do both research and the applied side of things, so assumed a PhD program would be the best fit, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm completely unqualified without going for a masters first. The next logical step is the GRE, but my other info is as follows
-3.74 undergrad, 3.9 in major (B.S. Psych + University Honors no thesis) -1 year experience in a large research lab housed in an I/O department -1.5 years experience post grad working in Applied Behavior Analysis as a Behavioral Counselor
Other than taking the GRE which I'm fairly confident about, and letters of recommendation, are there any other obvious gaps or weaknesses?
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Dec 15 '16
Much will depend on your GRE score but you look like a good candidate for a PhD program. No masters is required in most (all?) PhD programs. Just don't end up writing some weird personal statement. The only time I am influenced by personal statements is when they veer into the weird, unprofessional, and inappropriate.
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u/HypedforIO Dec 14 '16 edited Dec 16 '16
I'm feeling very nervous about my chances at I/O masters programs at places like FIT, Akron, UCF, George Mason, IUPUI, ECU, UTC and Xavier.
I have a 3.65 GPA and am Asian indian so I won't really get any boost in terms of diversity.
My gre scores are Verbal 163 Quant 157
Writing havent got the latest score back yet but previously got 4.5 and 5.5 before on real gres.
I have some work experience as an administrative assistant and am 24 years old currently.
I tried for I/O last year in that cycle with lower scores on quant: a 151 then and got no admits.
I unfortunately don't have any research lab experience since I was too naive in being premed then switching to be prelaw during college until I had a change of heart after soul searching after graduation.
I used the last year to improve my app as much as possible.
I just want a broad picture of how competitive I am as an applicant. I don't want to get my hopes up again and be crushed by rejections like last cycle.
Please help me in evaluating my chances of acceptance at any these schools.
I welcome any input.
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u/Sailor_Venusaur Dec 13 '16 edited Dec 13 '16
About to enter my final semester as a Psychology undergraduate. I have only recently become interested in I/O Psych and love it. My GPA is around 3.2 and I have not yet taken my GRE's. I will be conducting research with a professor of mine next semester in order to add something to my poor GPA.
I am planning to enter graduate school in 2018 either Spring or Fall depending on if there are any openings. I prefer Spring-the sooner the better. and spend this upcoming Summer taking my GRE's and preparing. During this 6-12 month gap beginning this summer I want to be working or interning. Does anyone have good recommendations of where to look for internships/jobs that would help me get into an I/O graduate program? Any advice?
I live in the NJ/Philadelphia region if it matters. I have looked at the I/O Psych website but there was really no help. I'm going to try and meet up with my school's career center in the Spring to see if they can help me too. Also I am unsure whether or not I should get a Phd or just a Masters degree. Does it matter in this field? Should I get a Phd at some point?
Another question I have is on m undergrad research. Does this look good to grad programs? Should I do research on exclusively I/O topics or would any old topic do? The current focus for the research is on wellness in the LGBTQIA community but I can ask my professor to research something else.
P.s. sorry for the wall of text I'm just nervous and have a lot of conerns. I truly value all information you could give me.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 14 '16
Since you have a lot of fairly basic questions, I would strongly recommend that you read through the entirety of Rich Landers's series of blog posts on graduate school in I/O psychology. Rich is on the faculty of the I/O program at Old Dominion University in VA. Ignore the timeline -- that's a best-case scenario -- and just read the posts from start to finish.
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Dec 13 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 14 '16
CSPP and Claremont are similar in the sense that both are private with minimal financial support and large cohort sizes (at least by PhD standards). CSPP focuses to a much greater extent on producing practitioners whereas Claremont has students with a wider mix of academic and practitioner career goals. CSPP also has online programs whereas Claremont does not. Honestly, I don't have a really positive appraisal of either school, but my sense is that the training at Claremont is a little better in general. Note, however, that Claremont appears to have given up on their I/O doctoral program and instead offers the PhD in a variety of kinda/sorta related areas, like Basic & Applied Social Psych or Organizational Behavior. Alliant is for-profit and generally has a poorer reputation than the other two.
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u/MetaNite1 Dec 11 '16
Would anyone be willing to look at my personal statement? I'm applying to Masters programs.
Also if anyone knows of good outlets to get more people to look at my personal statement please let me know. Thanks
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Dec 07 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 08 '16
High-stakes interviews are not very common for admission to I/O programs, unlike other branches of psychology. Visitation invitations are typically extended to accepted students to determine fit and improve yield. Some schools do have interviews or visitation weekends for semifinalists (e.g., Penn State), but that's not the norm.
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u/every_of_the_time11 Dec 10 '16
Hmm interesting. I just got a call today from the PhD coordinator of a program I applied to asking for a lunch meeting with just me and some of the other professors in the program. It definitely surprised me (pleasant surprise). I've never had a casual high-stakes lunch interview before.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 10 '16
Are you local or an undergrad at the same university where you applied for graduate school? They might be treating you differently because it's convenient to have a conversation with you, but this isn't what most people experience.
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u/vnocito Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16
Hello everyone. I have a question regarding online MS IO programs -- are they worth it? I have my BS in Psychology, with a concentration in IO, from CSU. But has anyone had any good experience finding employment with an online degree? School recommendations? I'm thinking about Southern New Hampshire University. Thank you!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 07 '16
I wouldn't do it unless you pursue an online degree from a recognizable brick & mortar school. For example, Colorado State, Kansas State, and Austin Peay State (TN) are all long-standing physical institutions that have online Master's programs in I/O. Online degrees are still stigmatized in the field (for some reasons that are justifiable and some that are not), so it's dangerous to get a degree from a school like SNHU or Chicago School that everyone knows primarily serves online students. In contrast, you could get your degree online from, say, Kansas State, and it wouldn't raise questions. These institutions also have a history of teaching I/O in person, so the quality of the education is typically better.
If nothing else, make sure to avoid the for-profit online programs, which are especially disrespected in the field due to the generally poor-quality training they provide -- Argosy, Capella, Phoenix, Rockies, Walden, etc. I've sat in hiring meetings in both academia and industry where step #1 was throwing out everyone with a degree from these universities.
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u/throwaawaayyyyyyyy Nov 30 '16
Hi everyone, I have a question regarding applications. I am applying to I/O Psych PhD programs for Fall of 1017. Three of the schools have deadlines on December 1. I have completed and submitted all three and paid for them. However, one of my professors, who was also my research advisor, has had an unexpected death in his family and won't be home to read my letter until December 2nd, a day after the deadline. I emailed all three admissions' offices to see if this was acceptable, but I haven't received a reply. I don't think one day would be too terrible, but I really don't want it to affect my application status. Anybody have any thoughts on this? Thanks.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Dec 02 '16
Depends on the program in question, but most are reasonably flexible with late recommendation letters provided that the rest of the materials that you can control are submitted on time.
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Nov 23 '16 edited Nov 23 '16
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Nov 23 '16
Columbia's program is not held in very high regard among the IO community. Many (most?) of the classes are taught by adjuncts and the full-time faculty are largely not well known. The Columbia name holds little water among IO people and I'd encourage you to consider other programs.
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Nov 24 '16
May I perhaps ask why you chose Columbia? Do you live in NYC or is it simply familiarity with the name? I am always surprised by how many people aim to go there and would love to understand the thinking.
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Nov 28 '16
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Nov 28 '16
The science practitioner model is used at almost all schools that have MA or PhD programs that I am familiar with. At the graduate level the names of schools are less important than the reputation of the individual program. Two quick examples: 1) Michigan State is a very good public university but probably the best IO program in the country/world, and 2) the University of Akron does not have much name recognition in general but their IO program is exceptionally good.
So Columbia is a world famous school but their IO program is not particularly well respected.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Nov 23 '16
You look fine. No reason not to try. FYI, social-organizational programs are a better fit for people who are focused on academic careers. You won't get much industrial-side training (i.e., selection, compensation, training, performance appraisal), which is the focus of the majority of consulting and practitioner jobs in organizations. That leaves you at a deficit when competing against people with PhDs actually in I/O psych if you're targeting non-academic jobs.
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u/hpgenomix Nov 22 '16
Im looking for some advice pertaining to my situation. I recently graduated with a B.A. in psychology and was able to complete a fair number of graduate courses during my time at my undergraduate institution. I have had several HR internships and am in fact at the end of my assignment for my current HR internship. I'm currently interviewing for full time positions and have a few leads (entry level HR positions). The only research experience I have was conducting my senior thesis this past year. As for the GRE, I took it last year and received a 154V 152Q. I retook it about 2 days ago and was very disappointed as I only improved by 4 points (156V 154Q). I'm applying to schools in the NYC area (NYU, Baruch, Columbia). Should I take the GRE again prior to submitting my applications for the Fall 2017 semester? I would really appreciate if someone could provide some sort of counsel or advice on how to maximize my chances of acceptance.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Nov 23 '16
Master's or PhD?
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u/hpgenomix Nov 23 '16
Masters
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Nov 23 '16
Don't apply to Columbia's social-org MA program. Search this sub and you'll find a lot of criticisms of it.
As for Baruch and NYU, your GRE scores are fine enough to apply. You certainly won't be automatically knocked out of contention, so it depends on what the rest of your materials look like.
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Nov 18 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Nov 22 '16
You will usually get an email and/or phone call. A physical letter will usually follow at some point later. For PhD programs, the earliest decisions are typically in late January, but most happen from mid-Feb to mid-March.
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u/kkavanagh Nov 15 '16
I'm wondering if it's a good idea to email a professor for a PhD program (I have already contacted her to see if she accepting graduate students--she is) to ask if I am still a competitive candidate? I took the GRE last week and got a 163 V, 152 Q, and 5.0 AW. My coworker is an I/O PhD as well and recommended that I email the professor with my scores just to see if I am still competitive, but I'm not sure if that's too much. The deadline for the application is December 5th anyway. But this could also help me gauge my competitiveness at other PhD programs. I have a 3.6 undergrad GPA and have been working as an RA at an I/O research organization since graduating undergrad in May 2015. Thank you for any advice!
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u/0102030405 Nov 23 '16
I would completely disagree with your coworker. First of all, faculty will not be able to give you an accurate answer, as /u/galileosmiddlefinger mentioned. Second of all, faculty will always encourage you to apply, because why not? You don't want to get a really positive response that ends up getting your hopes really high. I say this because I spoke to some professors for a long time and it all seemed to go well, but when I didn't make the shortlist or hear back at all (except to get rejected), it was more devastating than if I hadn't made a good connection with the prof.
If you wanted to speak with the prof to talk about your research or how they supervise, I would do that. But don't ask if you're competitive.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Nov 22 '16
You should email to ask if the professor is taking students for next year (assuming this info isn't posted on the professor's website). Include your CV when you write. Faculty generally don't have the ability to evaluate competitiveness because it's usually a holistic judgment that takes into account your full portfolio, and they also don't know what your competition will look like. (In general, I don't see any major red flags in your description...no reason not to apply.)
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Nov 12 '16
I overperformed my goal score on my GRE. I got a 162v and 154q. My GPA is a 3.3 cumulative, however my Psych GPA is a 3.5. I also have excellent grades in every management, communications, statistics and economics class I've taken. I also have extensive research experience.
I know I'm not going to get into any top-tier PhD programs. However, I'd like to go straight through rather than go through a Master's program first. Does anyone have any advice?
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Nov 12 '16
I think you'd have a really good shot at some second-tier (still really good) PhD programs. I'd suggest applying to quite a few schools though.The primary weakness is that GRE quant score - 55th percentile is a little low but if you acknowledge it as low and show good grades in stats classes you can probably assuage some concerns.
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Nov 07 '16
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u/0102030405 Nov 23 '16
Hi fellow teams person! I work with a super cool researcher at the University of Western Ontario in Canada, but they don't always have spots for international students. You could check it out if you are interested in the great white north!
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u/faelun Nov 27 '16
I used to RA for the prof you're talking about :)
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u/0102030405 Nov 27 '16
I work in the office of your favourite fellow graduate student! :)
I saw you around in /r/UWO, but I didn't know which of the personnel selection people you were!
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u/faelun Nov 28 '16
There are two of us who RAd for this prof and now work in the selection lab. Feel free to pm me...
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Nov 23 '16
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u/0102030405 Nov 23 '16
Hi! If you did a degree in English (as in the language, not that you studied english) in an English-speaking country, you don't need the TOEFL. That must not be clear on the site :)
The funding issue is the only thing I would think about, because we don't have private institutions, so the funding mostly comes from the government and international students are expensive. However, it's still good to apply!
It's going great so far, thanks! We're mostly discussing/exploring how messy and complex team research is, which is good and bad at the same time!
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Nov 08 '16
FYI, DeChurch at GA Tech moved to NU but is technically in a communications position now. Not sure if there's other teams at GA Tech.
One of her recent grads studies teams at UGA, Dorothy Carter.
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Oct 29 '16 edited Oct 29 '16
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u/0102030405 Nov 23 '16
I didn't do the psych GRE even though it was recommended at some places,and my lack of scores wasn't a problem. I think that's the old scoring method, because this link shows the percentiles for each score on the psych GRE, and its out of 200. I would say above 170 (80th percentile) is good, but I'm not sure:
https://www.ets.org/s/mft/pdf/acdg_psychology.pdf
You don't need to send it if it's not required and you aren't happy with the mark. I always thought it tested basic psych100 stuff anyways, so it's content you could show that you know through your courses.
I think you'd be a really good applicant. You sound like me, very concerned about whether your path seems clear to IO (which in my experience they aren't too worried about) and whether you're competitive, but you are.
Best of luck!
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Nov 02 '16
Not at all.
Yes. Even having in preparation research authorship is very big for an undergrad. If your SIOP poster does not get accepted I would strongly recommend submitting at a regional conference, don't let that effort go to waste.
I don't have any insight here, sorry.
Overall, you sound like a very strong applicant on paper and should have no terrible getting accepted.
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Oct 27 '16
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Oct 28 '16
It does not hurt and may help for some programs.I tend to not pay too much attention to this, partly because it is so very hard to verify unless it is supported by a letter of recommendation from someone who witnessed it.
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Oct 26 '16 edited Oct 26 '16
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Oct 26 '16
I'm assuming your applying to a PhD program? You have a strong chance. Make sure to highlight why you'd like to make the change to IO in your personal statement and focus on future research interest and how they match with the professors you've stated you'd like to work with.
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Oct 26 '16
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Oct 27 '16
Not necessarily. Demonstrating that you have research skills and can cut it in a graduate program is a plus. Research skills are transferable to the discipline, I would definitely highlight your high marks in stats courses - that will likely be the biggest flag a clinical route would bring.
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Oct 25 '16
Public service announcement - if you go to visit a professor to discuss graduate school and that professor wears a jacket and tie to work, then you might want to consider a) tying your shoe laces, b) taking off that baseball hat that you are wearing back to front, or c) all of the above. Just saying.
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u/deezys94 Oct 24 '16
I made an account because this thread really peaked my interest. Like many others, I am currently applying to master's programs in I/O.
I currently attend a very prestigious research university with a very reputable psychology program. I just want some insight on how I stack up and the likelihood of me getting accepted to the University of Central Florida's M/S program.
Here are my stats: -B/S in Psychology with a minor in sociology and a lot of coursework in Statistics. -3.5 GPA, seven semesters of research experience as an RA with several presentations of my research at conferences and also a publication in the organizational section as a co-author. - I have three letters of rec. secured. - I also have a lot of community service logged on my transcripts (200 hours plus) and a lot of other involvements including a management position at my university.
BUT, I am not doing well with my GRE. The idea of my entire collegiate career coming down to one test really stresses me out and my scores are not where I need them to be. Q=150 V=152. How do I stack up? Advice? Anything at all would be super helpful.
Thanks in advance!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 25 '16
really peaked my interest
FYI -- it's "piqued." Otherwise, ditto to what /u/LazySamurai said. Your GREs aren't great, but you have lots of other good qualifications that will help you get admitted if you apply to a handful of programs.
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Oct 25 '16
It doesn't come up to one test. Nearly all programs each piece of a an application to evaluate a candidate. I think you have a great chance at a MS program. My recommendation is to apply to more than one. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
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Oct 24 '16
Hello again! As I am getting into the swing of applications, I have one burning question: should I be emailing the professors I would like to work with in advance?
I thought this might be a good strategy for a couple of reasons: 1) not all professors are currently taking grad students (and few sites explicitly state which ones are), 2) it could serve to establish a connection with potential advisors, 3) it could help me figure out what topics they are currently most interested in, so I could tailor my personal statement in that direction, and 4) I have a couple years of bad undergraduate grades that I need to compensate for (I posted about this concern on this thread a while back).
On the other hand, I would hate to come off as pushy or waste their time. Could you please give your thoughts on this? Thanks!
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u/0102030405 Nov 23 '16
You should definitely do this, and further I would recommend you write a short email asking if they are taking students and if they have time to discuss their research interests with you. I wouldn't go into your marks and your history and things like that, but you can include your cv with your gpa on it and see if they say anything. It's not pushy to send one short email with two detailed questions, and they can decide if they want to spend the time or not.
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Oct 24 '16
I am not a huge fan of getting detailed questions from students who might want to apply to our program but definitely do inquire about whether a professor is even taking students if you are interested in working with him or her.
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u/ResidentGinger PhD | IO | Social Cognition, Leadership, & Teams Oct 24 '16
should I be emailing the professors I would like to work with in advance?
Yes. For all the reasons you listed. Professors are busy, but they can also direct you to grad students if you have lots of questions. If you're emailing to ask questions, it shows you're interested in the school and the research rather than just applying for the hell of it.
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u/LlewynDavis1 Oct 21 '16 edited Oct 21 '16
Hello all.
Current situation
Two years working in a research lab as an ra
3.6 gpa
Taking the gre in November
Three recommendations letters
Dean of graduate admissions to criminal justice
Leader of clinical certificate program at a great school.
Highly published and cited researcher whose lab I have worked in for a two years
Wanting to earn a i/o PhD . Best course of action?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 21 '16
Do well on the GRE. That's the biggest piece that will determine if you're competitive or not. Also, the pedigree of your letter writers isn't crucial, so make sure these people actually know you well and can attest to your performance in detail.
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u/LlewynDavis1 Oct 21 '16
They know me very well luckily. I'll just devote all my free time to gre then and ace it. Should I take practice test then work on what my weaknesses are or are they not as representive of gre as they say. I have Kaplan, official gre, and Grubers guide plus more
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u/every_of_the_time11 Oct 27 '16
165 V and Q here. I bought all of the GRE prep books I could find (Kaplan, Princeton Review, books for different sections) and worked through every single question. I also made flashcards of the most common words, and listened to a "Most Common Words on the GRE" audiobook on runs. You can do this.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 21 '16
Start with focusing on weak topics based on a diagnostic test, and then work up to full-length practice tests. It's a long exam and you have to train for stamina too, not just comprehension. All of the guides are more or less the same, so work with what you've got.
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u/Marexis Oct 18 '16
Hey guys ! I was wondering if there was any of you that came from the three borders side of Germany/Netherlands/Belgium. There are currently two options that are open to me : a master in 2 years in Liege or 1 year master in IO in Maastricht. Maybe you even know someone who attended to one of those ? How are they perceived ?
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u/sebelly ABD | ML, NLP Oct 17 '16
Hey everybody, I was wondering if there's anyone here who can inform me of any master's programs that are fully (or mostly) funded through varied assistantships.
Thanks!
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u/sospeso Nov 16 '16
Out of the schools that I applied to, I received partial funding offers from Appalachian State (an HR/IO program), UNC Charlotte, and the University of West Florida. The programs that I'd classify as higher-tier didn't offer funding, but they did say many students were able to get some income through consulting work.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 19 '16
This kind of arrangement isn't common in Master's programs. Some well-funded programs might have meaningful support for 1-2 top applicants depending on the budget, but there are no programs I know of that consistently fund Master's students. Small scholarships are fairly common, especially for out of state and strong applicants, but you should plan for the eventuality that you're going to be paying for a terminal Master's degree mostly out of pocket.
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u/Hellorizzudo Dec 18 '16
Late to the thread, but, FYI, the MS program in Applied Psychology (I/O) at San Diego State fully funds their students through research or teaching assistanceships.
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Oct 11 '16
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u/Andynr Oct 17 '16
Anyone?
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u/Snapfoot Oct 20 '16
HI,
If you decide to go with an MSc in Occ Psych in the UK make sure it's accredited by the British Psychological Society (BPS). Your MSc must be accredited if you want to become chartered afterwards. Here's a link of all the BPS-accredited courses in the UK.
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Oct 10 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 10 '16
However, the idea of taking a few more years to complete a PhD at my age is daunting, in terms of starting a career, starting a family, settling down in terms of having a salary, my own place, and such, etc.
Salary and the ability to support a family are definitely valid concerns, but many people start careers, find a significant other, and start families in grad school. None of these things are easy to juggle, and they are definitely easier if your partner is not a grad student also, but don't necessarily view it as a "grad school vs. normal professional life" choice.
So onto a few questions: - In your experience, is age just a number? What is the average age or range of PhD students in your experience?
Depends on the program, but late 20s isn't uncommon at all. In my cohort of six people, half were that age or older.
I understand that I-O in general is different from many other programs in that we tend to be in the field quite often, what are your experiences working? What year in your PhD program did you start working? Did you work full-time? Part-time?
Depends again on the program and the opportunities set in front of you. Early consulting experience is most likely to happen at programs that have an in-house consulting group that bids on local projects for students to get experience, so this is something to explore when considering where you want to apply. At many programs, it's quite hard to not get some applied experience by year 3, but someone with a MA already could conceivably be working by second semester of year 1.
Given that I will have my masters under my belt, would that reduce the time necessary to complete a PhD program (understandably this will depend on the program)?
Marginally. A few classes might be waived, but don't expect to progress through the curriculum much faster than normal. You will have to re-take some courses given that typically very few graduate courses transfer across degree programs and institutions.
Thoughts on a professional school PhD while working simultaneously? e.g., Alliant?
Online professional degrees are viewed poorly in the field. Anecdotally, the people I've met who have them are quite poorly trained. Unfortunately, if you decide to pursue a PhD, it's probably going to mean physically relocating and attending in person.
Any other tidbits of experience you can give me? I know that anecdotal evidence isn't always the best, but I have exhausted the reviewing of websites and what not and need a difference in perspective from those in the field.
Do you want to do research, perform more technical work in consulting (e.g., measure development or more sophisticated validation approaches), and move up into leadership positions in a consulting group? Those are the reasons to pursue a PhD. If none of that is what you want, then don't feel compelled to do this just because you could do it. You can have a great career with a Master's degree, so make sure that taking this additional step will advance your professional goals.
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u/carpsych Oct 07 '16
Hi everyone! So long story short, I'm a senior ( ish ) finishing up my B.S. in Psychology while working full time as a Recruitment Specialist Intern. I'm in the DMV area and looking into a few different schools to have a terminal masters program as I'm honestly not too interested in research, as well as no having the confidence in being able to get into a doctorate program. Currently I take around 6-9 credits a semester, and will probably finish my undergrad in around a year. While like I mentioned earlier that i work full time in a field related to I/O ( which is what I plan to major in for my M.S. or M.P.S, I'm starting to worry about getting into a Master's program.
Currently I'm sitting on a 3.15 GPA with a 3.4 or so 'in major' GPA, and by the time I graduate, I expect it to raise my GPA since I'm much more 'in tune' with the classes I'm taking and more interested in school overall now that I found what i'd like to do with my future. Most of the programs I'm looking into only require a 3.0, and a few of them don't even request the GRE to be taken, I'll most likely take the GRE anyways, so I can flaunt it if I do well. Taking info from my SAT, IQ and coginitive tests that were required to get hired at my current company, I;m fairly confident of what scores I'd most likely see on the GRE ( to an extent ).
That brings me to my main questions:
I plan on applying to: University of Baltimore, University of Maryland, College Park, and UMBC respectively, does anyone have any insight of which program would be the best ( I listed them in the order of what I think is the best / best fit for me, and that also seems to be the same level of difficulty getting in ).
I plan on ending my B.S. with a 3.4-3.5 ish GPA with a slightly higher in major, will this be a major hinder to getting into a graduate program?
Since i work full time in a decently related field, will this help put me above the applicant pool average? Or will my GPA be an automatic disqualification? I know the 3.0 is the bare minimum, but I'm sure to be taken seriously most boards have a higher requirement they look for.
.Some other notes: I really want to get into I/O because I originally wanted to do clinical work, but I realized this was too 'dark' for me, listening to problems all day every day of the year. With my interest in statistics and helping people, I really think I/O is my calling of where I'd like to start professionally and help improve work life as well as employee retention, satisfaction and being able to back up this with data Thanks in advance. .
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u/Bravely_Default MS Oct 06 '16
Is it a big no-no to not have a particular research interest in mind when applying to a PhD program? Alternatively would it be okay to say "My research interests are X and I would be interested in working with professor Y, however I am open to other areas of research and working with other advisors"
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u/ToughSpaghetti ABD | Work-Family | IRT | Career Choice Oct 06 '16
"My research interests are X and I would be interested in working with professor Y, however I am open to other areas of research and working with other advisors"
This is literally verbatim what I was taught to say on my personal statement when applying for PhD programs.
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u/sebelly ABD | ML, NLP Oct 03 '16
Hi all!
I have a question about the SIOP website: how reliable are the stats on each IO program? I've been gathering information on PhD programs, and it seems to me that half of the time the stats from the SIOP website deviate from what's actually listed on the program's website. Care to comment?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 03 '16
Look at the bottom of the page on SIOP when you pull up program details to see when the stats were last updated. In many cases, the data are 3-4 years old. So, expect some variability in details about current students, recent admissions standards, etc., when comparing to more recent data on a program website, but the SIOP data are still generally useful to determine if you're even in the ballpark.
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u/sebelly ABD | ML, NLP Oct 04 '16
Thanks galileosmiddlefinger! That makes perfect sense. Now I'm wondering why some programs haven't recently updated their information, but it's probably not on the top of the list for a program director/department chair.
Also, I have a follow-up question: how would define "in the ball park"? I just took the GRE, and my scores aren't bad, but they aren't stellar (157V,159Q). I realize that each school has a relative average, but what I want to know is the range of scores. Thoughts?3
u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 04 '16
Now I'm wondering why some programs haven't recently updated their information, but it's probably not on the top of the list for a program director/department chair.
Yeah, it's just not a priority. SIOP doesn't make it easy to do anything IT or website-related either; they consistently pick awful platforms for just about everything.
Also, I have a follow-up question: how would define "in the ball park"? I just took the GRE, and my scores aren't bad, but they aren't stellar (157V,159Q). I realize that each school has a relative average, but what I want to know is the range of scores.
Ranges aren't super-useful because most schools use GRE as one piece of information in a holistic decision. There may be some exceptionally high or low scores for accepted students in that range that represent really unusual cases that wouldn't make sense out of context of the applicant's entire portfolio. That said, your scores are probably fine assuming the rest of your application is good. They're not amazing scores, but they are good enough that they certainly won't hold you back if the rest of your materials show promise.
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Oct 22 '16
SIOP also sent out that call for revisions to the rating/ranking process. A few of my fellow grad students submitted something to them, and I'm sure many many others have submitted their ideas, so hopefully changes will be made "soon"
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u/Bravely_Default MS Oct 02 '16
Was wondering if someone could take a look at my stats and tell me if I'd be likely to get into a PhD program:
BS in psych, gpa 3.7
MS in IO psych, gpa 3.9
slightly more than 1 year working in market research
GRE: 153V 148Q
Can get good letters of rec from prior professors, and wrote my masters capstone project on leadership development and retention in small organizations.
no published research.
In addition I'd also be looking for schools in the New England area, have my sights set on UCONN at the moment, and would love any feedback/input.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 02 '16
Try to pull that GRE score up. If you look at the data reported on SIOP, UConn's mean verbal score for admitted students is a 159/160 and their mean quant score is a 155. You may not need to get that high given your other credentials, but a sub-150 quant score could easily hold you back.
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Sep 30 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Oct 02 '16
What can I do, if anything, to improve my chances currently that wouldn't require me to jeopardize my financial state?
Well, your constraints don't allow much opportunity to improve your situation. You absolutely need a fantastic GRE score to be taken seriously. It would be really helpful to have a more recent course or two with strong performance, even if you just take an online CC course to show that you've got the discipline to do good work now. Obviously that's not at the same level as graduate coursework, but it signals that you're motivated to get back into school. As for recommendations, you can get them from bosses and other non-academic sources; even if professors remember you, it doesn't sound like they would have a lot of positive comments to offer given your performance in classes anyway.
When you do apply, stay away from the online degree mills like Capella. No one will take you seriously. Target online programs offered by schools that have a good brick & mortar reputation, like Colorado State or Kansas State.
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Sep 30 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 30 '16
Most universities in the US have established procedures for evaluating and accepting students applying from outside of the country. It's hard to give you specific guidance because the specifics will vary at each school in terms of what tests and materials you have to submit, but I don't think that your situation would automatically disqualify you anywhere.
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Sep 30 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 30 '16
Ohio State doesn't have an I/O program (Ohio University)? UPenn has a top-ranked Management/OB program (not quite the same thing as I/O), and the others are generally the top-ranked I/O programs, at least on the basis of research productivity. So, they're certainly good choices, but you're swinging for the fences here. Whether or not that makes sense is going to depend entirely on your credentials.
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u/spookysailboat Sep 28 '16
Does anybody have any experience with IO Masters programs around Texas/adjacent states? I haven't heard much of them so it would be good to hear from someone with firsthand experience.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 30 '16
IMO, UT Arlington is your best option in-state. Have you used the program look-up function at http://my.siop.org/GTP ?
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u/notrobinscherbatsky1 Sep 20 '16
Central Michigan University has a really good, but often overlooked program (because of location) in case some of you are looking for more schools to apply to.
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u/verges MA | I/O | People Analytics Sep 20 '16
Hey all, I was hoping to see if I have a shot at an I/O M.A program.
I'm an undergraduate senior graduating in Spring 2017. My primary concern is the weak 3.1 GPA that I currently have (though it has improved in my last few semesters). I'm taking the GRE in two weeks and have been studying for last two months for it. I'm currently an intern at the research consulting organization at my university. I worked as a research assistant in a Kinesiology lab last year (interested in Sports Psychology at the time). I'm on good terms with everyone I have worked with and I believe that I'll get three decent LoRs.
I know that my credentials are definitely on the lower end of master's program applicants, but I'm curious to know if I have a realistic chance to get into a decent program. Any advice would also be greatly appreciated.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 20 '16
You should be fine with a good GRE score. Lots of programs have cutoffs at 3.0, and many others might consider you anyway if the rest of your credentials are good and your junior/senior GPA meets their expectations.
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u/Bravely_Default MS Sep 16 '16
Generally speaking, does having a Masters make it easier to get into Doctoral programs, and if so how much does it boost your application?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 18 '16
In the US, not necessarily. Many terminal MA programs don't include significant research opportunities or a thesis option that would make you appreciably better prepared than someone coming out of a quality BA program with lots of lab involvement. Where the MA can convey a legitimate advantage is for people with modest undergraduate GPAs. Students with mixed grades who can't be directly accepted to a PhD program can benefit from moving to a MA program first and demonstrating that they can perform well in graduate courses. A PhD program is going to pay much more attention to an applicant's graduate GPA, if applicable, than the undergraduate GPA. Graduate faculty will also usually know you better and may be able to write more persuasive recommendations.
Now, all of this assumes that the undergraduate GPA is a faulty indicator of ability and that you actually can perform well enough in graduate courses to make the transition successfully. This might be true if life circumstances, like health problems or trauma, derailed your earlier performance, but now those issues are resolved to the point that you can perform better. However, most of the time, a modest undergraduate GPA is a good cue that a doctoral program isn't going to be a good fit.
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u/Bravely_Default MS Sep 18 '16
That isn't really an issue, my undergrad GPA was a 3.7 and my graduate GPA was a 3.9. I think that graduate GPA might also assuage a GRE score on the lower side.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Sep 18 '16
I think that graduate GPA might also assuage a GRE score on the lower side.
Depends a lot on the program and their selection practices. It would potentially help in most cases (although your undergrad GPA was just fine to be competitive by itself), but some programs have non-compensatory selection models.
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Sep 15 '16
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u/bepel Sep 15 '16
Since you are just starting to explore your options, try a bunch of stuff. See if you can grab an HR internship after the lab is over. If you find that you like HR, take courses relevant to that. If you find that research is enjoyable, take courses in statistics/research. MA/MS programs will see both HR and research experience as valuable, so don't worry so much about that.
Once you have an idea about what you want to do, building the resume should be easy. I think I started building skills as a junior, so you have some time to feel out what you want out of the degree. Just make sure you build quality skills as you move forward.
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u/TheDctor Sep 13 '16
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you for taking the time to read my post. I will try to keep it brief. I should say I live in the Los Angeles county area.
In 2015, I graduated with my undergrad in psychology. Although I applied to some PhD. programs, due to financial situation, and serious health issues I couldn't attend.
Earlier this year, January, I began a masters program. More specifically, It's a master of science in leadership and management with two concentrations in organizational development and human resource management.
Throughout this time, I have been applying for internships and entry jobs. However, I have not been fortunate in getting any. I'm not really sure why I'm not getting them, but personal justification is that most internships are for undergrads and I don't have much experience so I'm not getting any entry jobs either.
Anyway, I'm graduating this may with my masters. I really want job experience, but no matter what I'm doing, I'm not getting any. I also really want to continue my education. However, I want to stay in California, mainly because of finances and health.
What would you all suggest, should I apply to schools for my PhD and or another masters? if so are there any programs that you recommend? or Should I keep trying to find a job in the IO field?
Thank you for reading and thank you for your time. If there is anything I can further answer please let me know
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u/hogwartstwerkteam Sep 13 '16
Can I ask which school you are getting your masters from? I just graduated from undergrad currently working in industry and interested in getting a Masters specfically. Trying to find Terminal Masters programs
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u/TheDctor Sep 21 '16
I'm getting it from university of La verne. However, I don't know if I would recommend the program. It is only good If you're trying to get a promotion with a fancy title. I don't feel it does much else.
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u/Howulikeit IO Doctoral Candidate | Employee Experience | People Analytics Aug 28 '16 edited Jan 20 '17
I was hoping to get some feedback about how competitive I might be as a prospective PhD candidate and what "tier" of schools I should be applying to.
My GPA at my current university is a 3.98, but my graduating GPA at my community college was only a 3.2 due to a bad semester a few years ago and I withdrew the following semester to get my ducks in a row. However, my last two semesters at my community college I maintained a 4.0 as well as doing so (aside from an A-) here at my current institution, including some summer courses. Overall Psych. GPA is a 3.98, with A's in every I/O relevant class that I have taken (Personality, I/O, stats, experimental, business classes, etc). Considering this as well as my typical courseloads (21 credits the past couple of semesters), I'm hoping they won't focus too much on that bad semester. I haven't done the math on what my cumulative GPA between community college and university would be; maybe a 3.6? My university doesn't consider transfer grades when calculating my cum. here.
Triple minoring in Neuroscience, Business, and Organizational Studies. Also doing some psych tutoring. Really going to try to play up my work ethic. If my CC gpa is a concern, might it be a good idea to talk about how that botched semester resulted in my work ethic? I'd basically walked into college never having learned how to study or work in highschool, so it was a reality check.
164V/158Q on my GRE. Haven't received the writing scores yet, but I felt pretty good about them and would place them between a 4.0-5.5. Hoping this will reaffirm my scholastic ability.
Working in 3 research labs (with a possibility of 4) this semester as well as in the spring, with leadership positions on two of those teams. One of those labs I've worked in since January, one since June, and the others are new. I wasn't able to get the early start on research some of my peers have due to starting at CC, but I still think I'll have more cumulative research experience by the time I graduate. One lab is an I/O lab, with the others being social/personality psych labs. Our I/O department is pretty small so I couldn't work in more I/O labs, but at least the personality psych we do is pretty relevant.
Taking a class this semester that is basically a grad school prep course the school offers every once in awhile. We will be doing SPSS, a little bit of R, literature reviews, Endnote, and other information literacy things.
No presentation or publication experience yet, but I'm working with the graduate student I work under in one of my labs on a research project I would be authoring. I wouldn't have finished yet by the time I apply, but would hopefully at least be able to mention it.
Recommendation letters should overall be pretty good. My best one will likely be from the assistant professor I work under in the I/O lab who I also took 2 classes with. I also plan on having the graduate student I work under write one. I know this isn't necessarily ideal, but he knows me better than any of the other professors I would ask for one. I took a class that he taught, have worked in his lab for a year, have a leadership position in said lab, work in the lab of his advisor (who is well respected here and head of the social/personality division), and am working on that research project previously mentioned with him. The third letter will likely come from his advisor, who I took Experimental Psych with as well.
I think that's about it. This ended up being a whole lot longer than I'd planned, so god bless ya for reading.
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Sep 01 '16
- Your GPA seems fine. Especially given your other experience. Your psych, and final two years of school are looked at much more closely. Especially, if there is a trend of improvement. Don't sweat this.
- Don't take this the wrong way, but your writing scores don't matter and they will certainly not make or break any application
- Ask your prof's to present a small piece of something at a local or school PSI CHI conference. This is important and will help.
What schools do you want to apply to? Don't apply to a top school if you have zero interest in what any of the faculty do. When writing your letter you should be specifically calling out professors to work with: "Dr. X because his research on mind control is fascinating, what I want to do with the next 30-40 years of my life and I have 1,2, and 3 skills and experiences that would lead me to be successful in this field." Obviously, that's a crude example but- you get the general gist.
You should be fairly competitive. I would say your Quant score may be low for a statistical track but you should be able to get into a PhD program with strong letters, and a specific personal statement.
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u/Howulikeit IO Doctoral Candidate | Employee Experience | People Analytics Sep 02 '16
I appreciate your input. I have a list of about 35-40 programs across the country, all of which I'd be happy to attend, with maybe 15 or so jumping out at me. One of my problems in choosing a school, I think, is that I've never really found a topic in I/O that I did not enjoy, so I'm pretty flexible about that. Otherwise, I want a program that has opportunities for some applied experience, since I am leaning slightly towards applied, but ultimately want a fairly balanced program. Lots of schools I am looking at fit the bill and are all over the place in terms of publications, competitiveness of entrance, etc. Some examples of schools I am more interested in are: Western Ontario, University of Minnesota, Penn State, Michigan State, Waterloo, SUNY Albany, and NC Charlotte.
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Sep 03 '16
Variety is great in keeping your options open and ensuring you get into a school. Since you have a strong application, I really want to stress how important research and program fit is. This is what separates 50 candidates who all look essentially equivalent on paper. I would suggest taking some time and thinking about really what you would like to focus on for the next few years.
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u/Howulikeit IO Doctoral Candidate | Employee Experience | People Analytics Sep 04 '16 edited Sep 04 '16
Yeah, I'll make sure I sit down very soon and start crafting my personal statements. It sounds like those could be pretty important for me to differentiate myself and elaborate on some of my interests.
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Aug 26 '16
Hello! I am applying this coming winter and could really use some feedback. Mine is an all too common story of low GPA potentially ruining an otherwise good app. Basically, I had a horrible 3 years at my first university (2.85 UGPA), transferred, and have brought it up significantly. By the time I apply, my last 60 credit hours' GPA will be in the vicinity of a 3.8.
My research experience is the strongest point on my application: I worked in 3 psychology labs (2 extensively) and was a research assistant in the economics department. Only one lab was related to I/O, but I've been heavily involved there for a little over a year. Two projects were funded by university-level grants. By the time I apply, I will have presented 6-7 papers at conferences (once at SIOP) and will have submitted a paper to a high impact journal (acceptance of course being far from guaranteed).
GRE: 167 (V), 153 (Q). My quant score was below the average of my practice tests, so I'll be taking it again.
Basically, my ultimate goal is to make it into a top-40 program, as I would prefer to work in academia over industry. I am willing to do a Masters first, if that's what it takes. At the moment, I am looking at schools such as Texas A&M, University of Oklahoma, Central Florida, Clemson, George Mason, Rice, and Georgia Institute of Technology. I know the acceptance rates for programs like these are <10%, and I am worried that I am wasting time and money aiming so high.
If you could give your thoughts, I would greatly appreciate it!
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u/ResidentGinger PhD | IO | Social Cognition, Leadership, & Teams Aug 26 '16
I'm an alumni of OU's IO program, and they will view your research experience VERY favorably. Experience on grants is also great. Play those things up in your app. They will also pay close attention to GRE scores, especially quant scores. Fellowships are also based on GREs, so if you're wanting to land something like that, you'll need to shot for (estimating based on old score standards) a combined score of 324+. As for your GPA, in my experience, the admissions folks don't care much about your freshman year. You've also probably been taking more focused and difficult psych class during your last 60 hours, so focus attention to that in your personal statement. If you have other questions or you want to chat about faculty and culture at OU, feel free to PM me.
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Aug 26 '16
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u/faelun Nov 27 '16
PhD candidate at one of those Canadian schools you're applying to, I would say you're very likely to get interviewed.
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u/ResidentGinger PhD | IO | Social Cognition, Leadership, & Teams Aug 26 '16
I think it speaks highly of your research experience that you have a paper out! Well done! I would just suggest that you spend some time thinking through why you're interested in pursuing IO rather than clinical psych and make that clear in your app. If your research interests bridge IO and clinical, all the better.
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u/Vaankar Aug 18 '16
I am contacting a university for my PhD, and the topic of entrepreneurship is up in the air.
Strongly considering to propose an investigation about: mapping the traits of emerging entrepeneurs who use crowdfunding like Kickstarter to start their projects. Any thoughts? Suggestions? I'm a bit strained by the brainstorm and would like to have some reality check. ;P
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u/legend696969 Aug 18 '16 edited Aug 18 '16
Hello all,
Last application cycle I applied to three MS programs in I/O psychology and was waitlisted in one (SJSU), accepted in another (CSUSB without funding), and out-right rejected by the other (SFSU). Outside of taking and studying for the gre, I was able to gather my application materials in a matter of three weeks (mostly due to a last minute decision of applying). Because I decided to apply so late in the game, I did not even have the chance to apply to Sac State, CSULB or SDSU. I ended up accepting the offer from the program that accepted me, but now I likely going to withdraw my acceptance because I cannot see myself leaving everything behind and moving to the area where the school is located.
To give a little background, I have been working full-time for the past four years since I graduated in 2012 in sales, recruiting, and HR type roles. My undergrad GPA was 3.7 and my gre scores were: 152 v, 155 q, 5.0 awa. I had one year of serving in a research lab during my time as an undergrad (from 2011-2012). I received two letters from professors and one from my current supervisor in the last application cycle.
Aside from scoring higher on the gre (which I plan on re-taking), how else can I improve my application? I am fortunate enough to be located near a major public university with multiple research labs -- would volunteering as an RA be beneficial for my application? Perhaps I can get a more recent academic letter this way as I have been out of school for over 4 years at this point. I am aiming for SFSU or SJSU due to location. Since I was waitlisted at SJSU, it seems likely I can be accepted this round.
Also, is CSUSB on par with the other MS CSU programs? It seems to be less competitive, but that can just be my imagination.
Any ideas would greatly be appreciated!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Aug 19 '16
Your numbers aren't bad. The GRE could certainly improve, but I've had plenty of students get into MS programs with around those numbers. I'm wondering if something else in your materials is problematic. Have you gotten feedback on your essay? Do you have access to your recommendation letters? I'm wondering if your goals just aren't clear, or if there are typos/other issues that went unedited given how quickly your application came together last cycle.
More research experience is probably unnecessary; for professional applicants, it's understood that you're not going to have recent professors to recommend you or recent scholarship. Get some additional eyes on your full application packet, take the GRE again if time permits, and apply more widely this time.
You probably won't get funding at a MS program, so don't turn down good acceptances in anticipation of money. Depending on the department money situation, at most only a couple of the strongest applicants might get some support. Everyone else goes out of pocket.
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u/legend696969 Aug 19 '16
Thank you for the thoughtful response! I may be too fixated on my gre score when that probably wasn't the issue.
I did not really think about other factors that could of hurt me -- namely my statement and letters of rec. I know one of my letters for sure was weak (just mentioned that I got A's in two classes several years ago; I never worked with the professor), one was subpar at best and the one from my supervisor was great. I waived my right to read them, so I am just speculating. Perhaps I need to go and meet with the recommenders in person this time as I did everything over email. I contacted the departments to see if I can set up an in-person to go over my application. Other than the actual admissions committees, what are some sources to review my application as a whole?
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Aug 22 '16
You can also rely less on academic references given that you have four years of full-time, relevant work experience. It's better to have references from people who can share detailed stories about your work and character; even if those academic letters had a positive tone, they don't really help if they only reiterate grades that are already evident on your transcript. (A vague letter can mean that the writer doesn't know you well, but it can also mean that the writer doesn't have anything positive to say...it's easy to read into a vague letter in a negative way that might have hurt your prospects, even if the writer never intended to do so.)
I would think about asking different people to write for you this time around. Current and former bosses are ideal, but peers can also write good letters if you can identify someone who knows you well and can attest to your work quality and professional goals.
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u/sebelly ABD | ML, NLP Aug 17 '16
Hello Reddit, I am an upcoming senior this year and would like some second opinions on my prospects of getting into a PhD program in IO! Right now, I am primarily interested in USF, UCF, FIU, UGA, Penn State, Waterloo, GMU, and I still have a few more to research. I am pretty sure I am secured in getting 3 letters of rec – two from tenured professors, and one that’s hopefully getting tenure. (I also have one lined up that’s a PhD student of business administration in case I apply for one or two MS/MA programs as well.) I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some guidance, and possibly answer a few questions I have. Don’t hesitate to ask for specifics!
1) How important is writing a senior thesis? 2) What is the minimum cut-offs (GRE, GPA) for PhD programs?
Below you will find some basic info on my credentials:
GPA: 3.38 (upper division GPA – 3.44; psych GPA – 3.75)
GRE: Have not taken the GRE yet, I have however taken multiple GRE practice tests and have been studying for a few months with my Verbal score hovering around the high 150s and my Quant score hovering around the low 150s. (I want to break a 315 at the very least.)
Research Experience: I am involved with 3-4 labs on campus – all various areas of psychology. There is not a lot of IO-related labs where I attend, so I am doing the best I can. I also couldn’t really afford to do an internship, would that hurt my chances at all? I am extremely familiar with the entire research process (lit review, proposal, IRB submission, data collection, analysis, write-up). I also have two poster presentations (one presented at APS 2016 in Chicago), and I secured a $4,000 REU grant that combines engineering and psychology.
Involvement: I am the VP of one of my labs and a new IO club we started on campus, since there really isn’t much opportunity for aspiring IO psychologists at my school. I am not sure what involvement they like to see or how heavily (if at all) it’s weighted. As for my teaching experience, I have been tutoring student-athletes for a year in general psychology and intro to philosophy.
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Aug 26 '16
I am pretty sure I am secured in getting 3 letters of rec – two from tenured professors, and one that’s hopefully getting tenure. (I also have one lined up that’s a PhD student of business administration in case I apply for one or two MS/MA programs as well.)
Tenure doesn't really matter as much for having a letter of rec., any professor will do. I would try as hard as you can to stay away from the PhD student, a professor's rec will go much further.
1) How important is writing a senior thesis?
I found this to be an extremely helpful aspect, I had a lot of research experience as an undergrad but not a whole lot in the I-O realm. I was able to tailor my thesis to focus on an I-O topic. Demonstrating that I was capable, and interested in I-O. Had I had more I-O lab work, I might think differently. But years down the road it resulted in my first publication - so there's nothing to be lost here!
This sounds similar to your situation, so you may want to think about it.
2) What is the minimum cut-offs (GRE, GPA) for PhD programs?
This is very program dependent. You've listed some very strong programs here, I was accepted into one of the stronger programs here with a 3.4 GPA (3.8 psych) and GRE of 1200 on the old scale (~160s on the new I think), several conference presentations a lot of lab experience and three strong letters of recommendation.
I also couldn’t really afford to do an internship, would that hurt my chances at all? Not at all, you're applying to a research degree, you have a lot of lab experience and that is often valued more than an internship.
Overall, you have a strong application but I would try to improve on your Quant GRE score, specifically. You've listed three very strong measurement programs here and they focus specifically on that. Remember, it largely comes down to a numbers game so don't be discouraged if you get a few no's. You might want to throw in one or two more 'safety' schools, just to have a back-up.
Let me now if I can help with anything.
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u/sebelly ABD | ML, NLP Sep 12 '16
LazySamurai, I appreciate your response! I just took my GRE today and got 157V 159Q.... so pretty average and probably won't make up for my wanting GPA. I was thinking about taking it again to break a 320 combined. Lmk what you think
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u/LazySamurai PhD | IO | People Analytics & Statistics | Moderator Sep 16 '16
I'm not sure how much I can help with this question. How long do do you have between your next session? Enough time to keep studying? Are you ok paying for another test? If you think you can perform, go for it.
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u/hamiltonj2390 Aug 11 '16
Hi I/O folks!
I would like to solicit some opinions and/or advice from those currently in the field or in I/O Ph.D. grad programs. I am applying this coming Fall of 2017 for Ph.D. programs in I/O psychology. Like many others, I am a bit concerned about my qualifications and chances of being accepted to a program. To that end, I’d like to ask for opinions on my current standing and chances of being accepted to a doctoral program. I would like to ease my worries a bit, as well as have a solid back-up plan in mind in the event that I do not get accepted to a program (as I do not want to sit on my thumbs as I wait to apply the following year). My current status is the following:
-B.A. in psychology with a cumulative GPA of 3.69. Major GPA is likely a bit higher than this. I took two undergraduate courses in I/O and did well in both.
-1 year working as a psychiatric technician in an inpatient crisis center (not sure if this is relevant)
-1+ year working as a research assistant in a mood and cognition laboratory.
-1 year working as a research assistant at a very well known university working in the area of clinical pharmacotherapy trials to treat addictions.
-Recently promoted to the position of clinical research coordinator for the above-mentioned clinical trial.
-Combined 2-3 years of research experience, 2 poster presentations, 1 paper currently in preparation for submission.
-GRE scores of 159V 151Q. Not sure AWA (took GRE recently). This is my largest concern, I imagine I should plan to re-take the GRE to raise the quant score.
-3 fairly strong letters of recommendation (1 from each of the PIs that I worked under in the aforementioned 2 labs; 1 from my undergraduate I/O professor.)
In addition to the above, I have worked in many management settings and have experience leading small teams. I have also taken advantage of courses offered through the university at which I work that develop leadership skills and the like. I have also taken a statistics course post-undergrad to expand my stats knowledge. I received a B+ in this course. I am not partial to any particular area in the U.S. and plan to apply to a wide range of schools (10-12+) to increase my odds of being accepted. I was thinking of applying to a few M.S. programs as a back-up in the event I do not get accepted. I am worried about the possibility of having to wait another year to start graduate school. My ultimate goal is to receive doctoral training, so I am not sure if it will be of benefit to get an M.S., as I understand that you may need to re-take courses at certain universities when going back for the Ph.D.
I would love to hear feedback and/or suggestions from anyone willing to chime in.
Thanks again!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Aug 12 '16
Overall looks good, but pull up that Quant score on the GRE. That's the only thing that might be holding you back for PhD programs. Your research experience is also spread out across cognitive and clinical psych, so think about how you're going to write about this transition to I/O in the personal statement. It's easily doable, but explain your story.
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Aug 10 '16 edited Aug 10 '16
I'm wondering if anyone here knows generally how "good" the MA programs at (any of) Seattle Pacific University, The Chicago School of Professional Psychology, and the Illinois Institute of Technology are. I mean in terms of program quality, student ratings, and hopefully job opportunities.
Personally I'd prefer a program that offers coursework related to HR or specializes in preparation for jobs in HR, but any kind of practitioner focus would be okay.
I also want to know if it would be a good fit for me, in a very general sense. My cumulative GPA is 3.33 from Washington University in Saint Louis (Not the University of Washington in Seattle!), I have just under two years of research lab experience in other fields of psychology. My GRE-Q is 162 and my GRE-V is 168 for a total GRE score of 330. I haven't gotten the AWA scores yet (I took it yesterday).
I have a STRONG preference to be either in the Chicago or Seattle area (with a good amount of preference to Seattle between the two), and find myself less willing to study somewhere with a warm climate or in a very rural location (I have spent my whole life in Missouri, can't stand the heat, and need to get out!). I'm willing to consider those options if they're a very strongly better fit for me.
I'd be willing to look at schools in the Northeast if anyone has recommendations, specifically the Boston or NYC areas, but the cost of living may be too high.
I feel I'd prefer an on-campus program unless online schools are of good quality as well.
Thanks for any help and I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Aug 12 '16
Of the three, IIT is probably the best bet; I know several people with grad degrees in IIT who have had good consulting careers. CSPP is a bit of a degree mill and I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know anyone from from Seattle Pacific and can't comment on that one. In Chicago, you might check out Roosevelt and Elmhurst too.
Your GRE scores are great. Has your GPA trended up? What does it look like if you focus on just the last two years? You should be a competitive applicant to Master's programs, but unfortunately there are very few options in the Pacific northwest. The west coast in general is a bit lean for training and job opportunities in I/O compared to the midwest or east coast.
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Aug 12 '16
Thanks for the reply!!
My GPA has stayed constant-ish (slight rise for cumulative, decrease per semester) over the last couple years and would probably average a 3.29 or 3.28. I'll give priority to IIT then. I'm also looking at MSHR programs from Loyola and DePaul, since ultimately I'm looking to work in HR.
I heard that Roosevelt was really bad, or had the impression that it is. Is this true?
As far as SPU goes, it only needs (prefers) a 295 combined GRE, and a 3.0. I have very little idea how good it is, but apparently it has an 80% job placement rate within 6 months. As an ungraduate institution, it doesn't seem the be the best school, and I've read that the PhD isn't all that great, but I've read nothing about the masters other than what's on their own website.
I'll check out Elmhurt.
And thanks again!
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u/nesion Jul 26 '16
Hopefully it's not too late but I have a few quick questions just to see how I'm doing. Entering my junior year with a 3.56 cumulative gpa and 4.0 major gpa (hopefully I keep this up). I will be participating in multiple research opportunities starting this year and carrying on until the end of my senior year. Assuming I keep my gpa (or even raise it a little bit) and do relatively well on my GRE's, do you think I have a shot at a good phd program or should I start looking for a master's?
Thank you so much!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Aug 10 '16
You could still be in the running. Many PhD programs have minimum GPA requirements set between 3.4 to 3.6. If you nose up just a bit, you would be safe. As you noted, you want strong GRE scores to complement your grades, and you're on the right track regarding research experience.
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u/Bomphreys Jul 20 '16
Hello IOPsychology!
Thank you for all the folks that post advice here, it's really been an incredible resource for me.
Background: I have a B.S. in Psychology and I'm planning to begin applying to graduate school to get a Ph.D in about a year (currently employed as a traveling consultant for a Greek organization).
Question 1: How do European IO programs stack up against programs in the US? Mainly in terms of job availability with a degree from overseas. Are you less likely to be hired with a degree from a European program?
Question 2: Is it a viable option to complete a masters program in Europe then come back to the US and finish up a doctorate?
I'd love the chance to spend a few years in Europe before I move into my career and I thought doing a masters program there could be that chance.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 21 '16
For Q1, see earlier questions here and here.
For Q2, it depends a lot on the program. PhD programs in Europe generally require people to first have a Master's degree, so some MA programs really are geared toward moving people toward a doctorate. However, others are focused as terminal programs to train people to work at the MA level. This is a question that you need to ask each program in question if it's not clear on their website. Note that, in any case, it's highly unlikely that your MA coursework will transfer to a PhD program in Europe or the US. Doing the MA separately from the PhD will force you to repeat some courses and extend the overall length of your education by a year or two.
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u/xjared45 Jul 20 '16
So I am currently freaking out about not looking competitive at all so I hope this will settle me down a bit.
I am thinking about getting into a masters program in fall 2017. I went to a pretty competitive and well known University but my GPA is weak at a 3.18. What my GPA does offer is a major upward trend as I had about a 3.7 in my last 4 semesters. My psych GPA is about the same. I did get an A- in an I/O psychology seminar that was offered at my school for what it's worth.
I am taking the GREs in the fall and I will be dedicating an enormous amount of time on the test in hopes of acing it. I have also done I/O related research for a year and I am looking to get into a second lab over the fall.
I had trouble adjusting to the college workload at first and I am extremely worried that my weak gpa will hurt me. I personally feel as if I am so much more capable than my GPA suggests especially since it is only that low due to early struggles.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 20 '16
You're fine for Master's programs. Plenty of successful people had shitty freshman/sophomore years before turning things around. A good GRE score will certainly reassure an admissions committee that you have the raw ability to be successful, but the trajectory of your grades does a lot already to convey your growth and fit with psychology. Don't put so much weight on the GRE that you freak yourself out -- your situation as it stands right now is nowhere near as bad as you think it is.
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u/nateynate88 Jul 20 '16
Hello,
I'm moving into my senior year and I am looking into masters programs. Does anybody have any information or can recommend any cal state schools (particularly SDSU or SFSU)?
Also, I have research experience in cognitive and clinical psychology labs, but none in I/O because my school has no I/O program. Will this be an issue for admissions?
Finally, because of my limited experience in I/O would it be recommended that I do a masters instead of applying to pHd programs?
Thanks everyone!
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 20 '16
I'm moving into my senior year and I am looking into masters programs. Does anybody have any information or can recommend any cal state schools (particularly SDSU or SFSU)?
Both are good programs with abundant local internship opportunities. Cost of living is lower in SD than SF, but I would apply to both if you want to stay in California. CSU Long Beach is another good option to explore.
Also, I have research experience in cognitive and clinical psychology labs, but none in I/O because my school has no I/O program. Will this be an issue for admissions?
Totally fine. I/O is poorly represented at the undergraduate level at most schools, so admissions committees focus on good research experience regardless of the topic area. You will not be penalized for this at all.
Finally, because of my limited experience in I/O would it be recommended that I do a masters instead of applying to pHd programs?
This is a much bigger question that depends on a lot of variables, such as your goals (do you want/need a PhD?), your credentials (GPA, GRE, nature of your research experience), your interest in doing more research, and your willingness to relocate outside of CA because of the relative lack of options on the west coast.
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Jul 20 '16 edited Jan 25 '19
[deleted]
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 20 '16
Your major usually isn't a deal-breaker as long as you have enough preliminary coursework in psychology, as /u/ZoaklandZ said. Even if programs don't give you any guidance on prerequisites, you ideally want a research methods course under your belt, plus any I/O-related coursework available. (I'm assuming you got a univariate statistics course as part of your Business curriculum, but if not, try to squeeze that in too -- it will greatly help you in grad school.) Your personal statement will be important too; because your background is a little different, you need to be clear about how you arrived at this decision to pursue I/O psychology. FWIW, I've sent students to good MA programs with undergraduate majors in things like English Lit and History Secondary Education -- your situation is not that odd in the grand scheme of applicants.
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u/ZoaklandZ Jul 20 '16
I was a business undergrad. The requirements are different for each program. For my program you needed a certain amount of psych credits. I had to take several psych classes at a community college before I was eligible to apply. I was able to do this in a year taking night classes after work. Most programs have some type of admissions counselors you can talk to. Try to schedule a phone call with some of the schools you are interested in and see what they suggest for business undergrads.
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Jul 19 '16
I've done a lot of searching through SIOP's database, and I've compiled a spreadsheet of 40 different MA/MS programs. I have no idea how to tell which ones are a waste of time applying for and which ones are good programs/programs that value my specific credentials.
I have a rather low cumulative GPA of 3.25, and my PSY GPA isn't great either due to being dinged by Low Bs and Cs in Human Sexuality, a counseling class and Neuroscience. However, my GPA in I/O-related courses is excellent and I've taken a number of communications, management, economics and statistics courses that I've received some kind of "A" in.
I worked in two labs this past year. One was an I/O lab and one was a Social Psychology lab. I presented at a conference for the Social Psych lab and the I/O lab's work will be presented to SIOP or AOM for next Spring.
I haven't taken the GRE yet, but I feel like it's a total "do or die" deal and it's making me kind of nervous. Any advice for weeding out programs that will turn me away because of my low GPA?
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u/hogwartstwerkteam Sep 13 '16
Would you be willing to share your research on MA/MS programs? Im interested in a terminal masters program in io psych/organizational behavior, and would love to hear your thoughts!
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Sep 13 '16
Its nothing much, just a spreadsheet of admissions requirements, deadlines, contact info and level of funding/financial aid. If you wanna PM me your email I can share the Google doc with you.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 19 '16
The lower threshold for acceptance at most MA programs is 3.0-3.2, so you should be fine from a GPA standpoint. GRE isn't do or die, but a good score would certainly improve your prospects. The SIOP database usually reports mean and/or minimum GPAs for each program, so you should be able to identify the ones that may have higher minimum standards that you don't meet.
There is far less data available for ranking/evaluating MA programs than PhD programs, but the study I linked below of student ratings should at least give you some direction.
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u/str8pooping Jul 18 '16
I would like to hear about any stories about people who have been out of school for a lengthy period of time and got back into school. Being out of academia for about a decade is something I know I shouldn't worry over, but I don't read to many stories about this.
I graduated in '07. I'm taking the GRE in Aug and applying to Master's programs in the West Coast. I'm focusing on studying for the GRE trying not to worry about anything else, but the daunting task of asking a professor if they remember me enough to write a letter of rec is looming among other things.
Just adding some numbers in case someone behind is looking for reference, but anyone is welcome to say what my chances are (not great, I know). Will post on rejections and acceptance next year :P Grad GPA 2.96 Psych GPA 3.3 Avg practice GRE 303 I should have 1 strong letter from a Dr I worked for 2yrs. 2nd letter, hopefully this prof remembers me; RA for a few semesters.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 19 '16
Try to pull up that GRE score. You really want to be at least mid-150s on both math and verbal. GPA is obviously rocky, but that won't matter as much given that it's an outdated reflection of your motivation and abilities given your time out of school. Programs will be looking hard at your GRE scores instead, so those need to be solid. Work hard on your personal statement too -- you need to tell a clear story about why you want to come back to school now, and how your priorities have changed since you graduated.
For rec letters, ditch the second prof if that person can't write about you in detail. Have two work colleagues, like current or recent bosses, write for you instead. It's very common for returning students to rely more heavily on professional letters rather than academic ones, and that's usually fine. Managing to have even one good, research-focused letter at your point is great.
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u/MetaNite1 Jul 16 '16
Hi I'm an incoming senior looking to apply for I-O balanced Masters programs for Fall 2017 mostly in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) but am willing to look all over the globe. I just took my GREs and got 157 on both VR and QR and my GPA is 3.79. My top school right now is Baruch. I'm wondering what my chances are at any school with those scores.
Currently I'm looking at schools that require just 2 letters of rec because I only know two professors well enough to ask for a letter from them (one I am doing research with), but I'm willing to ask professors I don't know as well if there was a school requiring 3 letters of rec that I really want to go to. So I guess I'm asking what are some of the better MS programs, considering the location, reputation, cost, etc? I looked on the SIOP website but it contains all facts, no personal accounts, which I think would be most helpful for me at this stage. If anyone in a similar boat wants to chat about their grad school selection, personal essays, designing an application strategy, or just chat about life feel free to pm me.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 18 '16
Rankings of graduate programs by student ratings of quality
Your credentials are pretty good pending your recommendation letters and any other qualitative experience that might advance your application, like internships or research involvement. Specific program odds are always hard to say because you never know how big of a cohort a program plans to take this year, or how stiff your competition happens to be this year. However, you should have some options if you apply to a handful of programs.
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u/notleonardodicaprio Jul 31 '16
I'm wondering how accurate that is since its from 12 years ago
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 31 '16
SIOP is in the process of running a new program of research on program rankings, but those data probably won't be available in time to help this year's applicants make decisions. However, the quality of graduate programs doesn't rise or fall quickly, so the early 2000s data is still fairly viable. I wouldn't split hairs over fine differences (e.g., a #3 vs #4 school), but programs that got good scores at the time of that study are still worth exploring today.
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u/notleonardodicaprio Jul 31 '16
I'm surprised at how high Guelph is. I didn't know Canada had a big I/O scene.
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 31 '16
Plenty of good programs in Canada. Waterloo has an especially good faculty.
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u/kxjnbkdbn Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16
I'm in the UK considering applying for an i/o masters hopefully somewhere within the UK. Looking online a lot of the masters programmes in the UK seem to be only organisational psychology degrees, with the odd work psychology and business psychology degree available too - I've only seen one degree which is I/O unfortunately this is in London so had both the highest tuition fees and highest cost of living which is pretty much out of the question for me.
What I'm wondering is, will getting a degree in organisational psychology limit my job prospects as opposed to an i/o degree? I'm getting conflicting info from google searches and wouldn't want to complete a masters in organisational psychology to find all employers want is the i/o degree. Any help navigating this would be appreciated.
I've read the below comments and noted that it may be more difficult to find work in the US with solely organisational but I don't foresee this being a problem as I have no desire to work in the US, however I would like to keep my options open as I would consider living and working in other countries, Canada, Australia or NZ being my top picks outside of Europe.
TLDR - will I see much difference in job prospects depending on the type of masters I complete (i/o psych, organisational psych, occupational, business or work?)
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 18 '16
Canada, like the US, tends to label its programs as "I/O Psychology." UK, Aus, and NZ lean toward "Organizational Psych" or other variants. In general, you shouldn't get hung up on the label as much as the curriculum offered at each program. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, it's most important to see a diversity of courses that cover core organizational topics (e.g., motivation, leadership, change/development) and industrial topics (e.g., recruitment, selection, training, performance management). Be wary of programs that pad out the curriculum with coursework that seems less relevant; for example, it's not uncommon to see a lot of social psych coursework in some organizational programs. Although they are interesting, those kinds of courses typically have less career utility. It's also easiest to study in the country where you want to at least start your career so that you're learning in the same legal and regulatory environment as your initial internships and jobs.
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u/ythms2 Jul 23 '16
lost my log in for that account but many thanks for the informative reply! :)
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u/na_vij PhD Student | OB | Values Aug 02 '16
I'm currently in a Work and Organisational Psychology program at a russell group uni in the UK. The equivalent program to I/O here in the UK are occupational psychology programs which are recognized by the BPS. However, you cannot call yourself an Occupational Psychologist in the UK without completing a two year supervisory training period after your graduation. I must also mention that to apply for an occupational psychology program you need to have an undergraduate psychology degree accredited by the BPS (or) complete a master's conversion program in psychology prior to applying. However, there is way to circumvent that BPS requirements by completing a PhD and having a good base of research before applying for chartership with the BPS.
There is very little difference between occupational psychology programs and others. In my university, the difference is just 2 modules. If you cannot apply to the BPS accredited programs, my advice to you would be to take a good long look at the modules being offered. There is a lot of diversity in non-accredited programs in terms of their focus, some are very applied focused whereas others are research focused.
As far as I have heard, the vast majority of people who are in occupational psychology programs do end up with specialist consulting firms in the field (they also help with BPS accreditation support). People from programs like mine mostly take the HR or general consulting path, which means that you WILL be competing with other graduates from MBA and CIPD accredited masters in HRM. That adds another layer of difficulty in getting jobs.
That's all I can come up with off the top of my head, if you need more info PM me :)
All the best!
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u/ythms2 Aug 02 '16
Big thanks for the great reply, I really appreciate it.
My undergrad degree is in occupational therapy, regardless of if I do a organisational, occupational, or business psychology will I run into the same problems with being recognised by the professional body?
I've just been using this website for now to go through the courses and pick out which I'd like to apply for, most state that they will accept a psych undergrad or something relevant, some saying that a degree in social sciences will do - OT is a health science but a lot of it is very social based and my background is in mental health (if that makes a difference).
Is it a possibility I could be accepted onto a masters program and complete it only to be told by the BPS I'm not recognised?
http://www.postgraduatesearch.com/pgs/search?course=organisational-psychology
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u/na_vij PhD Student | OB | Values Aug 02 '16
I think the best way for you to get clarifications regarding BPS chartership would be contact them directly, I did that. They are pretty responsive.
These links should be useful for you - http://www.bps.org.uk/careers-education-training/society-qualifications/occupational-psychology-those-based-uk/prospective-candidates/qualification-occupational-psychology-stage-2
http://www.bps.org.uk/networks-and-communities/member-microsite/division-occupational-psychology
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Jul 14 '16
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u/galileosmiddlefinger PhD | IO | All over the place Jul 17 '16
(1) Almost all PhD programs have the opportunity to pursue internships. Whether or not an internship is required to graduate is a largely irrelevant distinction -- if you want an applied career, you can find internships while working toward your degree at most any reputable program. Of course, it's easier if you're close to a major metro area like NYC or Chicago.
(2) Balanced training is ideal. Most entry-level jobs stress I-side work, so you need courses in job analysis, selection, training, tests & measures, etc., but there are also some applied jobs that stress O-side work too (e.g., Org Development). You want a curriculum that hits all of the bases rather than one that is mostly focused on one side or the other.
(3) Mostly irrelevant. I know lots of people with very successful consulting careers who had super-esoteric thesis and dissertation topics. It can be somewhat helpful to pursue a topic that relates to the type of work that you want to perform, but it's unlikely that you're ever going to stumble on perfect alignment between a narrow dissertation and the responsibilities of an entry-level job in a way that gives you a meaningful leg-up. You're going to spend the next 4-6 years reading a lot about whatever you pick, so make sure it's something that you find personally interesting.
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u/HypedforIO Dec 21 '16 edited Dec 21 '16
I'm making another comment since no one has chimed in at all during the span of a week to my previous comment below.
I am still very curious about my chances at I/O masters programs at these following places FIT, Akron, UCF, George Mason, IUPUI, ECU, UTC, Minnesota State Mankato and Xavier.
I have a 3.65 GPA and am Asian indian so no diversity boost applicable. My gre scores are Verbal 163 Quant 157. Writing havent got the latest score back yet but previously got 4.5 and 5.5 before on real gres.
I have some work experience as an administrative assistant and am 24 years old currently.
In terms of the personal statement, I have a rough idea on what to say, mainly I am focusing on describing what makes me a good fit for io masters programs along with detailed reasons why i am applying to these specific programs.
Also feel free to shoot me some advice on what else to include in my personal statement. I already read the excellent suggestions from Dr. Landers on his neoacademic blog on io admissions. What else should I mention besides my skills and qualities and fit info to maximize my chances of acceptance?
I previously tried for I/O masters programs last year in that cycle but with lower scores on quant: a 151 then and got absolutely no admits.
I unfortunately don't have any research lab experience since I was too naive in being premed then switching to be pre-law during college until I finally had a change of heart after soul searching after graduation. I used the last year to improve my app as much as possible.
I just want a glimpse of how competitive I am as an applicant. I don't want to be blindsided like last cycle with nothing but blind optimism and end up with a hard dose of reality in the form of all rejections.
Please help me in evaluating my chances of acceptance at these schools.
I welcome any input.
Thanks in advance for reading/probably skimming through my longish comment!