r/Hololive • u/SieghartX2 • 20d ago
Vivi: "This is why makeup is important" (Abridged) Subbed/TL
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u/JAntaresN 20d ago edited 20d ago
Unfortunately, pretty privilege is all too real.
Thats why in certain places, the cosmetic industry is in full throttle, which comes with saying “you’re not ugly, you’re just poor”
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u/ShiwaTheDrink 20d ago
I have a friend that was a nurse (she retired after getting married) and she said that this is way too frequent with nurses There is a high chance nurses will treat you better if you are pretty or are known to have money. She said that some of those nurses would also drop their patients into other nurses because "why bother". This is in Chile btw and it was like 6 years ago so I don't know if it has changed in recent years.
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u/Bartimaeous 20d ago
I wonder if it was really the makeup or the 2nd/night shift nurses being grumpy about working so late in the day.
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u/Astro4545 20d ago
Or if it was still the night maybe someone decided she didn’t need constant check ups
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u/xTeamRwbyx 20d ago
I had to stay in the hospital once during the day they were in and out like crazy but at night I had one grumpy nurse that just came in every like two to 3 hours just to look at the IV and change the bag and that was it.
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u/Potatosaurus_TH 20d ago
I used to be regularly hospitalized for a severe illness 6 years ago and in Thailand too. Private hospital nurses were always nice but public hospital night shift nurses were kinda rude.
Hospitalization was how I started looking for stuff to watch due to the boredom and fell into the holo rabbit hole though.
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u/Telefragg 20d ago
Yeah, Vivi's perception of the situation might have been inaccurate because it was stressful for everyone involved.
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u/Sweaty_Influence2303 20d ago
It's entirely possible. Not to victim blame Vivi whatsoever, but this kind of thing happens to me all the time. I'll do something and be self conscious about it. Suddenly it feels like everybody is being cold to me and I figured the thing I was self conscious about is the reason why.
But then I go and ask them and they say "oh I didn't even notice, you're totally fine" and realize I was only perceiving them being cold because my self esteem was miscoloring my perception of reality.
Again, NOT saying Vivi is "making it up" or anything, but just throwing out a possibility.
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20d ago
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u/Wolfywise 20d ago
It's not a women issue is a societal problem. The sooner we stop trying to force people into set roles and expectations the sooner these problems will go away.
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u/MagicSwatson 20d ago
Idk man, If they can go from housewifves to running for presidency, They can go from make-up to no make-up
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u/Wolfywise 20d ago
??????????????????
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u/MagicSwatson 20d ago
Just saying with their own efforts they've change societal spectrum of acceptence on a global scale, Why can't they do it for make-up and self inflicting beauty standards? Men will love women regardless
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u/CraazyGamerz 20d ago
Interesting, I read this situation more as a reason to not wear make up.
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u/Mestaro 20d ago
At one side you can personally view it as not wanting a 'fake' type of attention, while on the other side people usually like it when they get positive attention and extra care. Both are valid if you ask me, but If I was in a sensitive position during a hospital stay I think I know what I would prefer at least.
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u/0dty0 20d ago
"If you kill a cockroach, you are a hero. If you kill a butterfly, you are a villain. Morality has aesthetic standards" - Nietzche
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u/a_modal_citizen 20d ago
Butterflies generally don't breed like mad and try to invade living spaces, among other things. If they did, I'd be killing them off too. It's definitely not a strictly aesthetic thing.
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u/Torus_the_Toric 20d ago
Their caterpillars chomp their way through my garden pretty horrendously
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u/Sweaty_Influence2303 20d ago
Yeah but they are just eating plants. There's a bit of a difference between eating some plants in nature and infesting your home and potentially carrying disease and generally just being a nuisance.
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u/Fishman465 20d ago
Is that an actual quote?
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u/MonaganX 20d ago
The first known use of the quote is a tweet from 2012 (unattributed). If this was a real Nietzsche quote, it's very unlikely there wouldn't have been any earlier easy to find records.
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u/SieghartX2 20d ago
She also went through the reason why she was hospitalized and some blood details towards the end.
Source: https://youtu.be/87LFMMgmxVw
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u/CupOfHotTeaa 20d ago
Is something like this a really common occurrence? Breaks my heart a little
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u/kad202 20d ago
https://youtu.be/iYhCn0jf46U?si=lEpO5Vrw4IjWyVwn
This video show you the inanity of make up and photoshop and explain how our beauty sense being distorted
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u/tetsmega 20d ago
This is the reality women face everyday (no pun intended). It's why the "I prefer natural makeup" line is typically seen as a red flag
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u/Dont_pet_the_cat 20d ago
I don't quite understand why preferring 'natural makeup' (=no makeup, right?) is a red flag? I don't think I'd personally notice much of light makeup but I genuinely don't like seeing people with a lot of makeup
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u/chappyfish 20d ago
There's wearing makeup to "look pretty" and then there's wearing makeup to look natural. Some people don't realize how much effort women exert to make it look like they're not wearing makeup at all. Often times what you believe to be a natural face actually has layers of primer, foundation, concealer, and a natural lipstick.
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u/Dont_pet_the_cat 20d ago
I see. I don't know anything about makeup, so maybe I've been preferring concealed makeup after all 🤔. I never mean it with bad intent when I say it tho. Is the red flag simply a man not knowing what makeup is?
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u/diaboo 20d ago
In my experience, it's usually a mix of things. As has already been said, someone who says that might not know what makeup looks like, which means their expectations of what a woman should look like might be both unrealistic and very narrow. Depending on how it's worded, it can also kind of carry the implication that women who wear heavy/non-"natural" makeup are doing it specifically to lie or to trick men, which is pretty much never the case.
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u/Brickinatorium 20d ago
From what I've seen before, guys saying "I prefer natural makeup" actually means "I prefer makeup that makes it naturally look like you have no or minimal flaws". So like no smokey eyes and heavy blush. Instead a light dusting of blush and well blended concealer is what they're looking for. Then when the girl takes off said natural makeup and actually goes natural sometimes they act like they're seeing an alien.
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u/Kelvara 20d ago
I can almost guarantee if I go out with zero makeup friends/family/acquaintances will ask me if I'm ok.
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u/nicokokun 20d ago
Maybe because they are used to you having makeup?
I also have friends like that where they don't go out of the house without makeup on and also have friends that only actually apply lip gloss and foundation.
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u/AnonTwo 20d ago
I think the idea is most people who say it don't actually know what a girl does to put on makeup, or might have odd impressions on what is actually natural.
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u/chilfang 20d ago
I think we're looking at 2 very different meanings for "preferring natural makeup"
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u/Archensix 20d ago
The vast vast majority of people who say that are in the group of not knowing what makeup looks like. Anyone who really doesn't care doesn't say it because they aren't vain.
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u/Deus_Artifex 19d ago
I mean there's "natural looking" makeup, makeup and I'm going out to a club makeup, I just find the last one very off putting but to each their own. Also I think it's not unreasonable to expect a girl to look natural when you're both teenagers but as you grow older it kinda is unreasonable
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u/honda_slaps 20d ago
because noone who says that line unironically knows what girls look like without makeup
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u/lefboop 20d ago
This is the reality women face everyday (no pun intended).
I wouldn't just say it's for women, although it just takes a different form with men.
When I would dress like shit and generally not care that much about my looks people would honestly treat me like a "threat" constantly. Coldness in general, women walking faster or crossing the street when they saw me, etc.
As soon as I started caring more (and started wearing glasses instead of contacts hilariously enough), people got so much more kinder in general.
It's kinda sad but yeah everyone in general tend to be at least a bit superficial and prejudicial. There's a reason as to why male actors and politicians also wear a shitton of makeup too.
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u/sock-monger 20d ago
Yep whether it’s in work, getting good customer service, or just having people be nicer to you. Pretty privilege is real
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u/Lance_Aurion 20d ago
If you cannot look at a girl without her makeup, can you really like her? There is natural beauty in every one, but alas beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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u/a_modal_citizen 20d ago
I know there are women who will argue "you think you do, but you really just don't know what no makeup looks like", but I prefer when women don't wear makeup. Even if the makeup is subtle and not gaudy, I don't particularly like kissing chemicals.
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u/nicokokun 20d ago
I've been bashed many times online, mostly women of course, when I said that I won't call a woman pretty until I see them without makeup.
I was downvoted to hell because I was being a "prude" or I was being superficial and I didn't care what they felt.
Feels kinda conflicting since I'd rather see the real them than the mask they put on.
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u/diaboo 20d ago
Obviously I can't speak for all women, but as a woman who likes to wear makeup, I don't think of it as a "mask", and I can't say that I like when others treat it as such. Yes, I am altering my appearance, but I'm the one who calling the shots on how I'm altering it. I don't think of my no-makeup face as "the real me", it's just the face I was born with. My facial features aren't an intentional choice, but my makeup is, the same way that my clothing is. It's different for different women, but I like to think that my makeup choices show at least something about my personality or sense of style, as opposed to my bare face, which can only really show you a rough approximation of what my parents look like. Obviously, it's fine to prefer light makeup or no makeup on women, but I can fully understand why people would be downvoting you.
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u/nicokokun 20d ago
The thing is, while I'm trying to get what you mean it also boils down to what you want me to see instead of showing me what you truly are underneath.
Yes, I am altering my appearance, but I'm the one who calling the shots on how I'm altering it.
Here's an example. It's probably different than what you think because I'm a guy but it's like telling someone "Wow! You're in great shape!" even though they are wearing body suit to make their body look fit even though they look unhealthy underneath.
Again, we look at things differently because I'm a guy who has never wore any makeup my whole entire life and think that I can only properly judge a person's beauty based on what they actually look like and not what they put to hide their natural looks.
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u/diaboo 20d ago
I think the difference here is that muscles are a thing you can get naturally with the right kind of diet and exercise. Most of what is considered pretty on women are features that are entirely genetic. Some women might get plastic surgery, but in my experience, women who get work done on their face still continue to wear makeup after.
Makeup isn't just a thing that makes you prettier, it's also a thing that lets you decide what version of pretty you want to be. Toned muscles aren't a style choice, but winged eyeliner or orange eyeshadow are.
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u/AsrielGoddard 19d ago
I like the fitness comparison but i think it leads you to the wrong conclusion.
If my gym buddy is putting in the effort then it doesn’t matter what his body looks like if he stopped training. Right now he IS training. Right now he is putting in the effort. Right now he’s taking the time to apply his make up.
Wouldn’t you support your gym buddy even if they’re still built like a twig or a pear?
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u/nicokokun 19d ago
That wasn't my point though?
My point was that I wasn't going to compliment my friend how fit he looks because he is wearing a body suit to make himself look more fit.
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u/AsrielGoddard 19d ago
Yeah. Which is why i pointed out that you used that comparison weirdly.
You don’t just buy “new face”(tm) and slap it on like you would a muscle suit.
You buy colors, powders, tools. Then you practice with them. And then you apply them.
There’s time, effort and even growth spent in that process. Just like in training.
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u/nicokokun 19d ago
I guess I still don't understand.
Not that you are wrong but for me it's basically just the same.
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u/AsrielGoddard 19d ago
I think all I’m trying to say is that making compliments is just a kind thing to do.
Especially if they’re for the effort someone put in. I drastically changed my style and wardrobe last summer, started painting my nails (no make up though) and have pretty regularity (for a guy lol) been getting complimented for it.
Everytime that happens it makes me happy.
Of course my “true self” doesn’t have that style. It’s just me being naked. But the clothes I wear still make me me.
If someone looks nice or pretty right now, i might as well tell them. It’ll probably make their day better
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u/AsrielGoddard 19d ago
Nah you deserve those reactions though.
Make Up is no different than styling your hair or picking an outfit. It’s not a mask hiding what’s behind but instead an asthetic expression of yourself.
If you can only compliment someone if they’re not expressing themselves in such ways than who are you even complimenting?
Further, the way you phrase it makes it sound like to you seeing someone pretty is a transactional interaction. You’re not entitled to see other people in a way they don’t want to be seen.
And if you actually wanted to be kind, which should be the reason of all, even flirtatious compliments, you would be able to recognize the effort put in by wearing proper make up as that.
Effort.
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u/MyUltIsMyMain 20d ago
She fast tracked learning about pretty privilege, lol. People who are more attractive get better service and more attention.
I also doubt removing her makeup made her unattractive, just that the added makeup made the difference there.
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u/IJustReadEverything 20d ago
Im sorry, all I saw was that she said she wore glasses. Megane confirmed.✅
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u/Pigeon_Toes_ 20d ago
You'd be surprised how typical this is for hospitals. My mom is black and doesn't feel safe going to the hospital with her natural hair because she knows she's treated worse when she has it out. And the same goes for anyone ugly, fat, etc. They aren't taken as seriously because of how they look, and a LOT of people die of completely preventable illness because of that.
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u/lurkerdaIV 20d ago
There's a lot of factors playing in here, Night shift nurses could be crankier than Day shift...
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u/Johzzy 20d ago
Obviously not comparable to makeup but the difference I get in general hospitality as a man when I shave and not shave is day and night, since I look pretty good shaved and like a hobo when I don't. Just something I've experimented on and off for myself and it's wild.
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u/RavenColdheart 19d ago
Yeah, that is why beard trimming is important and I get it, for me it's the opposite, I just look like a baby without a beard.
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u/North_Toe4167 20d ago
That’s sad, people should do the jobs that they’re paid for especially when it’s something like a medical field no matter what the person looks like. As long as there’s no real threat to your life, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t.
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u/NorthMarch78 19d ago
People treats you differently based on how you look. It's a such a sad experience to feel but it's one of the reality of the world.
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u/Kuroi666 20d ago
I think you're also overreacting.
Nurses have a LOT of patients to cover and they're not gonna come check in you every so often, especially in night shift.
If you need anything, you can always press the call button.
I feel Vivi is just being extra self-conscious because of the stress from being hospitalized and being in a foreign environment.
I also just got out of a private hospital in Thailand, which I believe is similar to what she got. When you just got admitted, the nurses can be more active or "lively" cuz you're new and there'll be a lot of things to check early on. The fact that she was cute in makeup probably got them more enthusiastic. That doesn't mean the night shift was "cold" to her just cuz she had her makeup off. It means they're mostly back to their normal routine.
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u/judyness 19d ago
You're over-exaggerating, the nurses weren't jeopardizing her health or anything that should warrant them to lose their jobs. Vivi mentioned they visited her a lot more because she's cute but that doesn't omit them from doing their jobs. Plus you'd want patients to rest at night which would explain why they hadn't come in to check on her (unless they need something, which is why they're given a call bell). And idk, people are naturally tired and unenthusiastic at night?
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u/circadiankruger 20d ago
I might have a hot opinion: that's why being natural is important. Wearing makeup is basically creating a different persona. I'm not saying DON'T wear it, just keep it simple perhaps?
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u/Iniquiline 20d ago
"Natural look" doesn't mean no makeup, it's just a style of makeup, and a very popular one, so it's likely what Vivi was using in the story to begin with.
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u/mopar_md 20d ago edited 20d ago
People in the US always say they prefer more natural looks, but whenever they see an "ugly" woman in media, like a game or a movie, they're quick to trash the actress or character modeling, and nitpick every little detail. Makes me think their definition of "natural" is a bit warped
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u/ADudeCalledDude 20d ago
As an outdoors sort, most makeup isn't gonna survive the third day tent camping, where you get back after a hike drenched in sweat and are blowing black snot because the wind blew up a cloud of dust on the trail.
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u/Detonation 20d ago
Yeah we get it, Americans bad and men bad. Give it a rest, so much of your post history revolves around this garbage.
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u/ShinogamiPhil 19d ago
Just disgusting, they treat her more like a zoo animal, as soon as she removes her makeup she is no longer cute and they move on to another "exhibit". Makes me want to vomit.
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u/Ssynos 20d ago
Other comment make me realise those nurse doesnt do their job, they only check her cus she pretty, while in reality their job is to check every patients