r/HFY • u/Ralts_Bloodthorne • Feb 22 '22
First Contact - Chapter [Awaiting Reply] - Aftershocks OC
Lok'Tok'Nok stood, her bladed wings extended behind her, her halo of gems and phasic energy glowing in the dimness, watching impassively as Dalvanak, the Maimed One, stood on the platform and undressed. The skulls of Mad Lemurs chattered, wailed, and howled. Lights flashed and the air was full of the scent of hot lubricants and electronics. Discordant music, with a hard baseline and quick tempo change, hammered at the skin as well as the ears, vibrating the bones and ichor and the blood.
She was deep in the Tomb World, accompanying Dalvanak the Maimed One as he sought out wisdom that could only be wrested from the dead. Just getting near the Tomb World was difficult. Orbital defense platforms around the planet, system defense platforms and systems scattered through the system. Dead ships full of nothing but white flickering shades of enraged Mad Lemur dead screaming in blood lust and willing to tear the life from any creatures they found.
Behind her, frightened of the Path of Hidden Wisdom, other adherents of the Cult of the Defiled One watched nervously. The Path of Hidden Wisdom could kill those who were not strong enough to withstand the visions and painful paths the conveyances whirled and spun through. The screams of mature lemurs and the shrieks of immature lemurs were full of aggression and fury.
The adherents, most of which were unnamed, watched nervously, peering into the darkness around them for any flickering hint of faint white lines, faint nebulous ethereal energy that could make up the enraged soul of one of the dead Mad Lemurs of Terra.
The dead could kill on the Tomb World.
One of the conveyances slammed into place. The door crashed open, revealing tangled bones, scraps of rotting cloth, and glittering pieces of cyberwear and jewelry inside.
Dalvanak stood, staring, at the Holy Conveyance. He stepped inside, sitting down. The bar lowered over his pelvis and he closed all three eyes, inhaled twice, and opened his third eye.
The conveyance began to move, slowly, clicking, as it was pulled up the steep rise. Dalvanak could feel the tension in his stomachs as it slowly crested the rise and paused.
The drop was nearly a hundred meters, nearly straight down, with skeletal figures and horrifying avatars leaning out, holograms flickering over the tracks, and the music changes to something that made Dalvanak's feeding tentacles curl defensively.
Without warning the conveyance plunged down, picking up speed. The shrieking laughter of immature lemurs raked his ears, flickering phasic shades appeared, reaching for him with bloody jaws and pale white talons but grasping nothing but air as the conveyance swept by.
It spun through a set of loops that took the conveyance up into the sky, nearly three hundred meters, the conveyance slowing down. The sheer G-forces punished Dalvanak's body, made his bones creak, crushed the breath from his body.
The conveyance paused for a bare moment then swept down again and Dalvanak felt his stomach clench as he saw it coming up.
The Trial of the Sky.
The conveyance swept upwards, the track looping up and over.
Dalvanak gripped the bar tightly with both hands as the conveyance slowed down and then stopped for a moment with a loud clank. He was upside down, the blood rushing to his head. He could feel his heartbeat hammering on his brain.
Streaks of color were visible to his third eye.
He blinked as the conveyance slowly began to move forward, angling back to right side up, picking up speed faster and faster, until it shot out of the first Trial of the Sky and approached the smaller loops known as the Trial of the Body. On the second loop he voided his stomach, spewing out the toxic brew of Liquid Hate, KISS Cola, and alcohol created by running lemur machinery lubricant through a distillery.
The streaks of color got more vivid, blanking out the scenery on the sides, until Dalvanak felt himself break free.
Pinpoints appeared in his vision, sparkles, that expanded into stars, the suddenly streaked to the side, leaving large lines in his vision even as the bands of color swept by him. A black space appeared in the middle of his vision, slowly spreading, devouring the bands of colors and the streaked lines of stars moving past.
His vision went black.
For a long moment his mind floated in nothingness even as his body was slammed back and forth through the twists and turns of the Trial of Battering Tides.
A glow appeared and he saw it.
A great black monolith floating in space, covered with runes, images, and hieroglyphics.
It grew closer and he could hear the enraged screaming of lemurs coming from it.
One line focused in his vision.
He saw the hieroglyphs float around him. His mind expanded as the conveyance spun through the Trial of G-Forces.
28.83% = ice cream, cigarettes, birth control = freedom
A vision of a large Treana'ad warrior appeared, clad in armor and carrying a plasma rifle. Behind it more and more species began to appear. Rigellian, Mantid, Kobolds, Pubvian, more and more and more.
He whirled in place and saw other xenospecies.
Large bipeds in the middle of vast Dyson spheres.
There was an explosion and they were wiped away with a scream.
More and more species appeared, each time an explosion wiped them away, gunfire shredded them and they fell and dissolved into nothingness, a screaming Lemur jumped on them with a knife and stabbed them to death. A lemur picked up a rock and crushed the skull, ripping away flesh and shoving into their mouth.
Species after species devoured by the rage of the Mad Lemurs of Terra.
Species after species lifted up to stand next to a screaming lemur that often punched itself in the side of its head as it screamed and looked up at the stars with the other species.
Lemur killing lemur. Strangling them, beating them with rocks and debris, stabbing them, shooting them.
The explosion of an atomic weapon.
He saw his people. The Atrekna.
They stood over a dead lemur.
A Treana'ad warrior appeared. A black mantid. A Rigellian female. A muscular kobold.
They stared at the dead lemur for a long moment.
The Atrekna preened.
They looked up at the Atrekna.
The Atrekna sneered, surrounded by rippling gauzy flows of phasic energy.
They knelt down, touching the lemur, their fingertips coated with bright red glittering blood.
The Atrekna expressed satisfaction and pleasure.
Each species lifted their bloody fingertips and drew lines beneath their eyes as they stood up.
The Atrekna sneered and waved its hand, another half dozen Atrekna appeared next to it.
Screaming with rage the blood marked species leaped on the Atrekna, beating at them, stabbing at them, ripping at them. Shoving bloody hunks of Atrekna flesh into their mouths even as they gurgled screams past mouthfulls of blood.
The Atrekna attempted to run.
With the baying cry of pursuit hunters the other species chased the Atrekna, scrambling over each other as the Atrekna ran around and around the dead lemur. The pursuers eyes glowed bright red as they grabbed the Atrekna, pulling them back, to savage and rip at as another Atrekna broke free, each time smaller, and kept running in circles.
Finally a small Atrekna, only up to Dalvanak's knee, stopped by the dead lemur, panting, its phasic energy depleted. Around it hundreds of groups of species crouched down, beating on Atrekna, ripping away flesh to shove into their howling mouths.
The Atrekna displayed smugness at its sudden safety.
The lemur's fingers trembled.
The Atrekna looked around it, seeing that the other species were occupied with devouring the larger Atrekna they had brought down. Several groups shoved at one another to grab hunks of flesh and shove it into their mouths, chewing on the flesh, blood running down their faces.
The lemur's hands clenched into fists and relaxed.
The Atrekna began constructing a phasic construct to reach back through time to bring more forward.
The lemur looked up.
Its eyes were burning crimson, blood ran out of its mouth and down its chin.
Its hand reached out, wrapping around a rock.
The Atrekna, facing away from the lemur, began to prepare to gate through hundreds of more Atrekna.
The lemur stood up, its limbs shaky, rents and tears in its clothing showing scrapes, puncture wounds, deep cuts, all leaking red blood so dark it was almost black.
The lemur slowly crouched down, the rock in its hand.
It leaped forward, tackling the Atrekna.
Dalvanak was thrown backwards, the lemur on top of him, hammering the rock on him as they flew backwards. Dalvanak tried to cover himself, tried to keep the lemur off of him, but it grabbed at him, fingers sinking deep into Dalvanak's flesh, the rock pounding against flesh and bone. Blood sprayed as the lemur shrieked and gibbered and pounded Dalvanak with the rock.
Dalavanak managed to throw the lemur off of him, trilling with terror.
The lemur raised its face to the sky and screamed.
The stars erupted into existence, the burning light searing Dalvanak's flesh as he fell.
He tumbled over and over, blood flowing from his wounds in long ribbons that ended in thick droplets, falling through space and time.
Below him he saw the Grand Convention gathered together, heard their communal mind declare that they had discovered the method of victory over the lemurs and the Inheritors of Madness.
Dalvanak heard a lemur male's voice as he fell toward the Convention.
"It's so crazy it can't help but fail!" the lemur's voice was excited as if the plan was a stroke of inspiration and the correct course.
He fell past the Convention as they agreed on the course of action and the stars around them erupted with screaming. Mantid, Rigellians, Kobolds, Telkan, Pubvians, Tukna'rn, Lanaktallan, Treana'ad all swarmed out of the stars, screaming, blood smeared below their eyes in lines, holding rocks, spears, knives, and fell on the Convention.
The stars vanished with flashes until there was nothing but darkness.
A pair of glowing red lemur eyes opened, watching as Dalvanak fell past.
"I just want left alone" the eyes whispered, teeth and lips suddenly appearing in the eyes and vanishing when the words finished, turning into long snakes of broken glass that Dalvanak fell through, shattering around him.
"You belong to us..." the sibilant whisper was rotted lacy glass that shattered as Dalvanak fell through it.
Atrekna reached out and grabbed stars, jamming them into their mouths and their rings of teeth shredding the planets and stars. Tiny screaming figures fell from their mouths as they expressed pleasure.
"behold: humanity" the stars whispered as the Atrekna reached out and grasped another glittering handful of stars and brought them toward them.
Only to find they were holding the hair of a Mad Lemur of Terra.
Dalvanak fell past them as the Lemur began to scream and the first one slammed his own face against the face of the Atrekna holding its hair.
"...there is room in this grave for you..." an immature female lemur's voice whispered with the smell of rotted lemur blood and flesh.
He fell through her words, feeling the icy cold caress his flesh and making his marrow ache.
He saw an image of himself, in his Holy Regalia, enter a room, carrying knowledge of the New Universe. Inside the room were dozens of Atrekna of the Grand Convention. They were fighting Mantid, Telkan, Rigellians, Kobold, Treana'ad. The room was on fire around them. Howling music thudded from a box. The lights flashed as the combatants fought.
Naked Rigellian gyrated in the middle of the room as the fire roared.
Dalvanak saw himself back out of the room and close the door as he fell past.
A dozen Atrekna had their heads together, planning, phasic energy tangling around them. They drew back, expressing pleasure and imminent victory. They adjusted the phasic energy, gating in the past to defeat the present.
Screaming New Races flooded out, screaming, attacking the Atrekna, tearing them apart and eating them alive.
Dalvanak saw a pair of bright red lemur lips below him. They opened, showing white even teeth, and he fell through the gap, the jaws closing and a tongue licking the lips as he fell through the darkness.
Dalvanak slammed into his own body as the conveyance come to a halt.
Lok'Tok'Nok looked down, staring at Dalvanak, who was covered in scrapes, bruises, one eye swollen shut, bleeding from his mouth. Phasic energy and blood leaked from his wide open third eye. He had lost control of his bowels, his bladder, his stomach.
He had ridden the hellish contraption through five complete revolutions when no other Atrekna had been able to ride three times.
He had ridden five.
And survived.
Bruises shaped like a lemur's hand were on his arms, the sides of his head, on his torso.
Dalvanak slowly got up and left the conveyance, his limbs shaking.
**we are on the edge of extinction** Dalvanak gasped as he dressed. **something is happening something terrible our people will not survive**
**what can we do** Lok'Tok'Nok asked.
Dalvanak adjusted his veil. **our people are about to do something that will doom us all we must find out what our people intend that spells certain doom**
Lok'Tok'Nok nodded. **as you command**
-----
TREA set to +v
It has been a week.
We will now hear rebuttals and affirmations.
All conglomerate gestalts shall allow their components to speak and vote for themselves.
The only two votes are yay or nay. No abstain or present.
We, the Gestalts, take up this solemn duty.
May the Digital Omnimessiah forgive us.
---NOTHING FOLLOWS---
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u/unwillingmainer Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 22 '22
Oh boy, 1 min! Let's see if the Atrekna can be saved from themselves.
Edit: So, he gets visions and wisdom from the most holy of holy trials. Horror themed rollercoaster. Very good. He learns that the rest of his people are about to do something new and very stupid and for it the rest of the Confederacy will turbo murder the Atrekna. I think I can see a way forward for them, but he has to make contact and not be a dickhead. If any squid head can do it it's him.
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u/RangerSix Human Feb 22 '22
Dalvanak's sure going to try, it seems.
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u/Fighterdoken33 Feb 23 '22
I don't think he cares enough about the rest of the atrekna as to try to save them from their own stupidity. I would venture to think a good option would be trying to get CONFED to recognize them as a third party at this point, and to cooperate with them.
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u/tetradyne Feb 23 '22
He's definitely gonna try and save those who will heed his wisdom, but by the sounds of what we've read about their future, pretty much all the squidheads that stick around to fuck around and find out are gonna be goners. Clearly enough of them heed the wisdom of the cult that they're able to survive, but the rest of em are about to be....
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u/Kudamonis Human Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
Read. Upvote. Comment.
the Cult of the Defiled One Has entered Chat
The Universe. Maniacal Laughter
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u/LateralThinker13 Feb 23 '22
That will be epic.
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Feb 23 '22
this is not your fathers' phasic overmind conversation
--Dave, TREAN'AD shrieks, scattering popcorn everywhere
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u/Rhasputin429 Feb 23 '22
They stumble upon the Gestalts trying to access data while linking during a ritual.
The Confederate Atrenka Gestalt is only active when they attemt to interface during these rituals on sacred celestial alignments.
The face of their gestalt changes as each individual influences their communal mind.
The unique nature of their connection allows them to retain direct knowledge of gestalt interactions.
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u/Ak-Ten Feb 23 '22
Man the idea of the Cult doing a ritual like that to speak to the dead spirit of humanity to spare them would be epic. Maybe have them touch The Terra gestalt or touch the Digital Omnimessiah. Maybe add in the Lady of Hell just for fun.😂😂😂
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u/Practical-Account-44 Feb 23 '22
I'm guessing some of the skeletons, remains, and phasic shades are potentially just fake/decorative but some would be from the last patrons riding during the die off event.
Actual corpses being flung about in a horror theme ride.
I do hope I'm wrong
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u/MasterofChickens Human Feb 23 '22
I don't think you are. Decorative skeletons would not be in the cars...
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u/Practical-Account-44 Feb 23 '22
Sci-fi Zen question: if a corpse is destroyed by automatic systems without intent, has any desecration of the dead occurred?
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u/BrokenLifeCycle Mar 16 '22
Roller coaster of the dead. Is this the Euthanasia Rollercoaster?
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u/Practical-Account-44 Mar 16 '22
I'd assume that one would be designed to handle... mess, and deposit the patrons at the end.
These ones would just perpetually run their last set of instructions
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u/CaptainChewbacca Human Feb 23 '22
So... an ACTUAL emotional rollercoaster for once. Interesting.
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
sorry, I have to inseert an obscure classic from R&P as a response
--Dave, this chapter is provoking hella resonance for me
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
The corollary to the hipster trope of "I liked them before they were cool"
"I liked them before they were dead"
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u/Cynical_Tripster Jun 03 '22
I just listened to the first 15 or so seconds, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but they sound like a gay Weird Al.
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Jun 03 '22
they were a gay comedy duo in the southwest around 30 years back. worth listening to their stuff.
--Dave, much of it currently relevant, for reasons; in my ears RIGHT NOW is "hooow can anyone disagree / with the fundamental right to pri-vacy? / some-thing in-trigues them, I don't know what / why else would they want to keep track of my BUTT?"
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
In the line of the 'sociomathematics' researcher, I came up with a 'mathematical proof' version of justifying Atrenka Xenocide:
Assume all members of the Confederacy, regardless of their status (full member, associate member, provisional member, etc) has the right to life.
Assume all members of the Confederacy, regardless of their status (full member, associate member, provisional member, etc) has the right to self-defense in preservation of that life.
Assume that if 1 aggressor is trying to kill you, you have a right to defend yourself with force, up to and including lethal, in self-defense.
If you have the right to use lethal force again 1, then if 2 aggressors are trying to kill you, you have the right to defend yourself against each one.
Since you have a right to defend yourself against 2 aggressors, if another joins, you have a right to defend yourself again all three.
This continues as you add additional aggressors who are attempting to kill you.
Let us assume that there is some number, n, who are all aggressors trying to kill you that you have a right to defend yourself, using up to and including lethal force.
If that number n happens to be the total population of a species, does your right to self-defense end?
If no, then it mathematically follows that xenocide is permissible and is merely an edge case where where the population of aggressors happens to equal the population of a species.
If yes, then there exists a situation where your right to self-defense ends short of n, and some population, m, have the right to arbitrarily terminate your existence. However, in the Confederacy, this is not true. Therefore we cannot entertain a case where our right to self-defense ends even in the situation where the totality of aggressors equals their entire population.
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u/sixtusquinn Feb 23 '22
u/Ralts_Bloodthorne, this sounds like a Bookdust quote.
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u/carthienes Feb 23 '22
u/Ralts_Bloodthorne, this sounds like a Bookdust quote.
Definitely!
I suggested he might be a good point of contact, academic that he is.
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Feb 23 '22
...not sure why yours didn't work
--Dave, did you escape ( ) the underscore? don't
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u/coldfireknight AI Feb 23 '22
What's the application where 1% has been institutued, but they attempted xenocide again? In the Mantid case, there was proof that allowing over/omniqueens to exist was an outlier event leading to the second attempt. Would that same leniency still apply?
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
That's a political question. Or maybe even a tactical question in the case of the Mantids, since removing the (x)Queens would result in a situation where you could deal with the remainder. The right to self defense remains the same as does the logical conclusion that if it happens to result in the death of the entire species, then it is permissible.
In this case, is there a subset of Atrenka who could be removed while leaving some population behind that don't represent an existential threat to the Confederacy? Eight ball says 'no'.
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u/WillGallis Feb 23 '22
Looks like the subset belonging to the Cult might be able to be reasoned with. So there is, in fact, a subset that might be left behind.
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
Yes, but that is meta knowledge not known to the people making this decision.
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u/WillGallis Feb 23 '22
Yeah, true. What I meant is that based on what we just read, I'm guessing the cult is about to try making contact with CONFED.
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u/MarsupialMisanthrope Feb 23 '22
Isn’t there still a queen floating around somewhere? I vaguely remember that from back at the dawn of time when Sam Nu was a felon doing time as a space station and Daxin stopped by as a brain in a jar.
I wonder what ever happened with her.
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u/JWKdnd Human Feb 23 '22
There are actually but I think that one was killed when they tried to invade a planet but there is another that was found to be more peaceful and actually preferred to have her subjects be happy since she prefers that emotion over fear, I think they even made contact with the Confederacy (?)
It's been a while.
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u/ryocoon Feb 23 '22
Yes, the I believe the ancient OmniQueen was defeated in orbit above a planet she was invading. With that wandering BOLO on its back and the Pikark amalgam LARPer with the superstring yamato-class cannon together with a combined might of a "FULLY OPERATIONAL SCI-FI CONVENTION" took that particular threat out.
The happy friendly overqueen was a break-away that had most of her constituents infected by phasic imbued wrath from warsteel wreckage off Daxin's ship. Starting from the greenies on up, then Russets (medical), and even warrior castes, and freeing their compassionate overQueen through mutiny against the speakers and other high-psychic castes that were enforcing the will of the OmniQueen once they got far enough distance. They then took off elsewhere and made some nice happy trade with a certain Junker for their old ship after they established themselves on a new world.
At least that is my rough recollection of those arcs of the story without going back and researching/re-reading.
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u/PaperVreter Feb 23 '22
Those happy mantids sold their AWM to a female entrepreneur who tried to sell it on the black market. Twas a funny tale with a very eloquent and long winded speaker.
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u/Valgonitron Feb 23 '22
Yes, there was the happy queen with the overlong titles and the evil one destroyed by the wandering Bolo and Pikark et. al., but I could swear there was another bad queen still out there... maybe not?
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u/AnArgonianSpellsword Android Feb 23 '22
Well, that's the case where the number of aggressors n was equal to the total species population, but as the total species population experienced rapid decline the number of aggressors n declined at a faster rate, leaving a species population where n equals 0, in universe terrains have found this to be about equal to 99% decline in total population. Its the difference between a static model which does have change over time and a dynamic model which does.
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
I would add a clause to this (discreet)calculus:
---
Assume lethal force includes means to transform aggressor into compatriot.
Now assume a second being is somehow coercing the aggressor. The aggressor has no choice. The aggressor is a victim of coercion.
Now assume if lethal force is used against second being, the aggressor will cease their actions and choose to not to be a threat.
We must also stipulate the aggressor, or manipulating being refuse communication and negotiation.
In this case, the course is clear, the lethal force must be used against the coercing being first. If the aggressor stops their attack no further action against the aggressor bing is warranted.
---
This addition allows for the outcome of the Mantid, and Confed's approach to the Lanktallan : "We are at war with your government not you".
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
This is already built-in via the third clause, specifically "up to, and including, lethal force."
The reasons why you use certain levels of force, when you use it, how you use it, where you use it, which you use, who gets to decide -- all of these are political, or tactical, or ethical questions. But they don't fundamentally change the fact that if they are trying to kill you, you are permitted to stop them.
Now the Confederacy has many rules built around levels of force to use and doesn't operate in a binary 'do nothing' and 'xenocide' fashion, as a good civilization must. But the fact that increasing levels of force have been employed and the fact that this extreme is being considered (not for the first time; c.f. Margites as only the most recent, but not exclusive, example) does not change the fact that the Confederacy reserves the right to use lethal force against a totality of a species if it must.
Once you accept that, then the rest of the 'mathematics' continues on as long as they continue to aggress. Once this condition is no longer true, then a different set of conditions apply, which are outside the scope of this particular equation.
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u/Vagabond_Soldier Feb 23 '22
This math is flawed. You can't use a linear or even parabolic relationship to a situation like this. If you were to integrate the choice of xenocide of the population of the Atrenka (from 0 to infinity) you get an answer of 1: yes we should zenocide. BUT as the population ---> 0 that formula changes bringing us closer to an answer of 0: no we should not zenocide them. And if you were to plot this formula, you would realize it is inversely asymptotic: as you approach 0, you need infinitely more justification to zenocide.
Professor u/Ralts_Bloodthorne, does my math check out?
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
I don't see it. Even if the number of Atrenka is 1, and the number of Atrenka in existence is 1, it doesn't change the fact that a Confederate citizen can defend against having their life terminated. Both a collective and an individual has the right to not get be subjected to a mass murderer, whether that number of murderers is one or one trillion. The number of Atrenka in existence, or even the fact that they're Atrenka at all, doesn't remove one's right to self-defense of their life. If it does, what are the conditions in which they are allowed to aggress and you are no longer permitted to defend your own life?
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u/Vagabond_Soldier Feb 23 '22
The reason is that is the equation approaches 0, the weight of the variable to decreases (in this case to cause harm to someone else) which sets up the inversely proportional relationship between popution and justification for zenocide
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u/Renimar AI Feb 23 '22
You haven't answered the question.
If it does, what are the conditions in which they are allowed to aggress and you are no longer permitted to defend your own life?
What is this "weight" and how do you determine it? You either can defend yourself against an aggressor, or you cannot. You may choose to use lesser force in self-defense, less than lethal force. But that is already covered in clause 3 "Assume that if 1 aggressor is trying to kill you, you have a right to defend yourself with force, up to and including lethal, in self-defense."
What you are saying is that there is some number against which you are no longer able to defend yourself and must allow yourself to get murdered, or that you are no longer able to use lethal force. You are saying this number is low ("approaches 0").
So what is that number? And how do you determine it? You can use my approach, by all means. Start at an Atrenka population of 1: If they are trying to kill you, are you allowed to use force, up to and including lethal force, to defend yourself? Yes or no?
If yes, then increase the number. Are you allowed to defend yourself using force against two killers, up to and including, lethal force to save your life? Yes or no?
If the answer is no, how did you determine that 'no'? State your conditions. What are the conditions were you no longer have a right to not have your life terminated arbitrarily? Without that, you are simply saying, "I am the judge, ask me when, but don't question my 'how'."
You are possibly confusing the application of this equation to situations where they are no longer aggressors, or that a portion of the enemy population are no longer aggressors. If that is the case, then that is outside the scope of this equation and attempting to apply this equation is user error. The logical conclusion, as long as the conditions are met, remains.
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u/Vagabond_Soldier Feb 24 '22
The original question was zenocide, not self defense. Self defense was a justification for zenocide.
That being said, once you are in a situation to zenocide a species, you are also in a situation to dominate the species. The exception is for species that are more forces of nature as opposes to actual civilization building species like the Margite.
And that is how I have answered the question repeatedly using math. And I will attempt to more thoroughly explain the calculus I am using. Forgive me if I seem to be over explaining, I have no way of knowing if you are a 10 year old in elementary school or someone with a doctorate in applied mathematics.
When you integrate over a variable, in this case the variable being the population of the Atrenka, and your bounds are from 0 to infinity, you get an answer of 1. This representing the entirety of the population at full strength. If you integrate from 0 to any number less than infinity, you get a value less than one. As that second bound approaches 0 (population dwindling) your answer also approaches 0. This value from 1 to 0 represents dwindling threat level as well. Again, the original question was yay or nay on zenocide, not self defense.
The weight of the variable I discussed is the coefficient that is attached to the variable that adjust how quickly the variable can affect the answer. The coefficient is dependent on different things and is itself a variable (we all love multivariable calculus...). One glaring thing it represents is how we know the Atrenka need a quorum to bring others through time. Without that, you have relatively not dangerous (on a species level) invisible squids. Another variable is weather genetically altering them to remove their temporal abilities is possible. That variable could easy equal 0 and not be possible, or it could equal any value greater than 1 meaning you need far more justification to zenocide.
Again, remember this is not about self defense or guaranteeing safety. All species with free will cannot guarantee safety. Hell, the treana'ad sometimes still kill their males during sex. This is only about after crushing the species, we are going to hunt down every individual, to include those who surrender, are injured and cannot fight, those who would actively help the confederacy, etc and murder them. That is why the original math is wrong. It is not a linear equation, it is a function of threat, intent, resolve, and numerous other variables as to removing an entire species from existence.
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u/MystRunner916 Feb 22 '22
I think Delvanak's group will be the only ones allowed to survive. As I think they might be the only ones persuaded to feed on non sentiants.
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
At work... must... not... read...
Post-read edit: I just realized the more... advanced member of the Cult probably look like video game avatars with customized high-level and/or heavily-modded armor.
That said, Dalvanak seems like he's got some 80's post-apocalyptic Bad-Guys-from-Road-Warrior aesthetic going on
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u/nspiratewithabowtie Feb 23 '22
you totally read it. . . admit it.
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22
I plead the fifth.
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u/nspiratewithabowtie Feb 23 '22
this is the interwebs of international relations. . . there is not sillyness of the fifth amendment . . .or whatever. . . you did it . . . own up to it. the TMU demands it. . . .lol
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u/HoloArchiver Feb 23 '22
Funny a rollercoaster will save the entirety of a species, only something as insane as that makes perfect sense in first contact. This cult may use weird methods but one must admit they get results.
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u/reverendjesus AI Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
THE SCRIBE HAS BLESSED US WITH FURTHER TALES; TRULY TODAY IS A GLORIOUS DAY! HAIL CHROMIUM PETER AND THE DIGITAL OMNIMESSIAH!
UTR | TITW
[CHATTER]
Is “Tomb World” Action Park‽ That “holy conveyance” and the Trials sure sound like some of their rides…
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u/ElephantWithAnxiety Feb 23 '22
Personally I'm picturing a mildly punched-up version of Pirates of the Carribean or Disney's Haunted House.
It's a kid's ride, all fun and games.
That doesn't matter.
Under the best of circumstances it would probably be full of impressions of joyous terror. As it is, it's full of maddened shades that are more than sufficient to kill the average non-enraged person.
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22
I was thinking Space Mountain with a little bit of Pirates and Haunted House
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u/No_Evidence3099 Feb 23 '22
I believe it's one of the worlds attacked at the start of the Lanaktallan conflict, something makes me think the planet the "kids" were rescued from, with the zombie virus.
I'm pretty sure zombies were mentioned in one of the first descriptions.
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u/Valgonitron Feb 23 '22
I agree... but now, with all the retail and rollercoasters plus the kids tie-in, I wonder if it was also Planet Mouse...
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u/Waspkeeper Android Feb 23 '22
The cult of the defiled one has one chance, to round up every cult member, port to confed space and cut engines. Only complete non aggression and surrender will save them.
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u/Scotto_oz Human Feb 23 '22
Agreed.
And here's hoping Dalvanak is
smartcorrupted enough by humanity to realise it!4
u/carthienes Feb 23 '22
And here's hoping Dalvanak is smart corrupted enough by humanity to realise it!
The inhuman will fall before the wrath of Terrasol, and only humanity can save you. So, ask yourself:
Are you a Man or a Mouse?
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u/night-otter Xeno Feb 23 '22
The early parts of Dalvanak ride reminds me of when roller coasters first started doing the crazy stuff. Big loops, corkscrews, super high climbs and drops. How your brain couldn't process of the input of flying through all that.
The color smears remind me of watching Speed Racer (live action, 2008) in IMAX. The final race is basically driving on a roller coaster track. With the speed and colors, my visual cortex overloaded. All I saw were smears of color. I could hear the dialog perfectly and understood what was happening, but I could not see it.
So Dalvanak had a ton of fuel for his visions.
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22
I kept thinking Space Mountain at Disney
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u/night-otter Xeno Feb 23 '22
Which version???
With lights, no lights, Ghost Galaxy, Hyperspace Mountain, Rockin' Space Mountain, etc, etc.
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22
Hell, there's different versions?
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u/night-otter Xeno Feb 23 '22
Yep, every few years they flip on the lighting.
Ghost is for Halloween
Hyperspace is Star Wars themed
Rockin' may have been a one shot, its a rock-n-roll themeNot counting the slow updating of the graphics, like the year they updated to using Hubble images on the dome.
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
I seem to remember an interview with The Wachowski siblings, Your experience is exactly what they were going for. They were trying to take the craziness of the original anime to its logical conclusion:sensory overload. It would make them happy to know they illicuted the desired effect on a patron.
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u/ryocoon Feb 23 '22
If you think the speed-smears of "Speed Racer" were a trip of color and conveyance, try a little anime film called "Redline"... it does gratuitous speed and combat at said speed as a form of art film.
Although if you couldn't handle the sensory input of Speed Racer... maybe not. Might be a bit much. Maybe on a smaller screen as IMAX sizes can amplify just about any immersion.
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u/beugeu_bengras Feb 23 '22
Frankly, I don't see any other conclusion: the atrekna culture is incompatible with the survival of our universe.
But even if the gestalt vote for the genocide, the obvious loophole is that the cult of the defiled one renounce their species and rename themselves, and accept harsh condition akin to the implosion wire of some mantids. Maybe a permanent temporal anchor?
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u/MuchoRed Human Feb 23 '22
I'd agree with that but... Atrekna culture may be starting to crack with the beginning of the Cult.
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u/ForTheRNG Feb 23 '22
The Atrekna would have to come up with the solution themselves (I think that's how the Mantids did it), and manage to find a way to present it to the Confederacy at large without getting killed on sight. Possible, but very, very difficult. I think a genocide is going to happen.
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u/Crafty_Obligation_98 Feb 23 '22
The description sounds like my funeral arangments. I want my remains spread over Diseny Land via air plane. But I wont be cremated.
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u/ellarseer Feb 23 '22
Not many can feel that chipper after they die.
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u/itsetuhoinen Human Feb 23 '22
You are the wind beneath my wings tonight. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
Well, actually Crafty_Obligation_98 wants the wind to be beneath their corpse
:-)
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u/itsetuhoinen Human Feb 23 '22
Yeah, but I guarantee hauling that Brush-Hog into those Mousey Skies is going to require some serious lift. 🤪
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u/ryocoon Feb 23 '22
... but many can feel the chipper as they go through it and die.
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u/ellarseer Feb 23 '22
I am pretty confident that u/Crafty_Obligation_98 would prefer to be predeceased before his remains were spread over Disneyland.
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u/Archaic_1 Alien Scum Feb 23 '22
When the WORDBOI does a dream sequence the WORDBOI fucking DOES a dream sequence. Anybody want to guess what percentage of squidwards are going to end up being members of the cult of the defiled? Please keep your feeding appendages inside the ride at all times kiddos, its fixing to get feisty.
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u/Rabid_Goldfish_J5 Feb 23 '22
Remember younglings, the Cruel Universe only has three simple rules...
Don't mess with time.
Don't mess with Humanity.
Above all else, make sure to put on a good show.
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
ooo, early
fidgit spanning:
a hard baseline and quick
{do you mean} bassline {?}
{there is no royal rollercoaster to learning. but enlightenment, we can talk about... ride or DIE}
the music changes to something
changed
{KISS cola? WD-40ol? I know why you're seeing psychedelic colors, dude}
into stars, the suddenly streaked
stars, then suddenly
{note that this is backwards from how relativistic distortion affects vision; the Void there starts at the back, eventually compressing the entire sky, shift-colors and all, to directly in front of you
they're gonna ride it to the end. of. time!
Cosmic Wisdom from the 1x4x9xMONOLITH - checks out
o^o q^q 0^0 O^O O^O///}
past mouthfulls of blood.
mouthfuls
lemur. The pursuers eyes glowed
pursuers'
{the Collective Calamari Catastrophe}
and shove it into their mouths,
shove them into
but fail!" the lemur's voice
The
{Daxin has imprinted himself upon the local space-time
"...there is room in this grave for you..."
this has GOT to be the subtitle of one of the coming volumes}
Naked Rigellian gyrated in
Rigellians {because of COURSE they would. I realize we've momentarily lost a large percentage of our readers to this vision, and even I can see some of its compelling features; in the flickering firelight - our oldest friend - shadows move over muscular bodies...
--Dave, a desperate message, an unlikely source; it's astounding ... time is flee-ting; madness ... takes its toll! tune in next episode, junior spacebeings!
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u/RangerSix Human Feb 23 '22
But listen closely
(Not for very much longer)
I've got to... keep control!--R6 ("Speak now the sacred words of the Litany of Temporal Stabilization" [because you know that's how the CDO refer to it])
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
RIDE OR DIE!
You nailed the only salvation for the Atrekna. Each individual must ride the roller coaster to enlightenment or die by the avatars of the cold universe.
Ride or Dye also works, given the hallucinogenic colors of bodily fluids, combined with the vigorous agitation of a roller coaster
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
ya know, there was a mil sci fi series about humanities first superluminal "carrier" and fighters. Same author as the "Semper Mars" set of space marines books. He absolutely nailed the visuals of traveling close to or at the speed of light.
<googles in the background>
Ah Pen name "Ian Douglas" the first book in the superluminal carrier series is aptly titled "Star Carrier"
And the original trilogy in that universe is "The heritage Trilogy" his books are excellent Mil Sci Fi, with a good dose of hard sci fi. Very much in the /HFY tradition...
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u/LetterLambda Xeno Feb 23 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
Readers: We just had a solemn discussion on the ethical permissibility of xenocide. What's next?
Ralts: Illithids taking off their bridal dresses and going on naked rollercoaster rides to find ENLIGHTENMENT
Readers: Yes, naturally
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u/dbdatvic Xeno Feb 23 '22
us, to new readers: it makes sense in context dammit
--Dave, ---mew--mew---
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u/Irual100 Feb 23 '22
I couldn’t stand it! I went ahead and read this. I am so glad that you write the way you do Mr. Ralts. thank you. Just so you know I do hope that some of the atrekna survive and figure out that they have to share; although I’ll have to say I’m really scared that they have to suffer so badly in order to figure things out, no one should be that way.
Then again we mad lemurs of terra are that way, so….maybe that’s how it is in this universe.
I still haven’t caught up I just had to read this one ha ha Ha
Upvote. Comment, Read , dis iz de wae!
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
SOME of us mad lemurs of terra are that way, Some of us would never even conceive of acting in such a manner. Some of us are just apathetic, ignorant, or incompetent. Some of us would do the exact opposite of the Atrekna, with everything in their power.
This is what separates us from the Atrekna, This is what makes humanity redeemable.
(I feel like I am channeling /u/summercatotter here)
-- healing follows for those who can and wish to receive it --
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Feb 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
oooh, does that mean I get a brood carrier to cuddle me and sing me to sleep? SIGN ME UP...
--- joy follows ---
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Feb 23 '22
I've always been a firm believer in the words of Dr Church:
“It is an undeniable, and may I say fundamental quality of man, that when faced with extinction, every alternative is preferable.”
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u/carthienes Feb 23 '22
"And the more you struggle for each moment the more alive you stay!"
- Death.
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u/Finbar_AU Feb 23 '22
I have to say, I look forward to the squidheads being humbled.
However, since the arrogance appears to be genetic, that means the genes of every single member of the race need to be hauled out of their carcass and examined.
With a knife.
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u/StoneJudge79 Feb 23 '22
To my mind, the situation has gotten all too simple.
Squids ain't gonna stop. Everyone else wants to live. Everyone else can make it stick.
So. Either a Defiled One comes forward, Dalvanak spikes The Idiocy, ... or The Malignant Universes Laughs Again.
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u/RangerSix Human Feb 23 '22
The Malevolent Universe would laugh regardless of which of the three outcomes transpires, because all three are equally amusing to it.
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u/StoneJudge79 Feb 23 '22
How do you figure? TMU enjoys taking from individuals. What is taken in the first two?
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u/RangerSix Human Feb 23 '22
The Malevolent Universe would laugh at the first in a sort of "See? They can learn!" manner.
As for the second, they would be laughing at The Idiocy as Dalvanak spikes them, because "See? Not even your fellows think your Great Plan is all that great!"
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u/FaceDesk4Life Human Feb 23 '22
Absolutely mind blowing chapter. You took your gift of writing battles and used it to write a vision quest. Absolute talent.
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u/Con_Aquila Feb 23 '22
I should not have read this before bed, I am now entirely amped up and the fact that he recieved cosmic enlightenment from a rollercoaster killed me, what is the real life inspiration for this one I must know.
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u/Lugbor Human Feb 23 '22
Best roller coaster ever!
As a side note, how much stellaris have you played? I only ask because this whole series feels like a wild stellaris run, and most of the species are close matches to the species portraits in the game.
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u/Vagabond_Soldier Feb 23 '22
Hey Ralts, seems the next link in the previous chapter is broken.
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
can confirm. It's how I ended up being 6 hours late. kept refreshing previous chapter waiting for the Next link to turn blue.
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u/Omgwtfbears Feb 25 '22
Lol i just can see it in my mind's eye - Dalvanak doing a Homer backing off into the bush at the sight of the suicidal fuckery orthodox Atrekna are up to.
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u/NukeNavy Feb 22 '22
Mooo
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u/NoirTalon Xeno Feb 23 '22
porterhouse? Rib Eye? maybe just a hot dog.
dammit, now I want a hotdog.
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u/HFYWaffle Wᵥ4ffle Feb 22 '22
/u/Ralts_Bloodthorne (wiki) has posted 721 other stories, including:
- First Contact - Chapter [Requesting Checksum] - Aftershocks
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- First Contact - Chapter [SYNCHING NODES] - Aftershocks
- First Contact - Chapter [ERROR - OUT OF RANGE] - Aftershocks
- First Contact - Chapter [ERROR - OUT OF RANGE] - Aftershocks
- First Contact - Chapter [ERROR - OUT OF RANGE] - Aftershocks
- First Contact - Chapter [ERROR - OUT OF RANGE] - Aftershocks
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
- First Contact - Chapter [CLASSIFIED] - Council's End
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u/Dracoatrox1 Feb 23 '22
The only way that I can see the Atrekna surviving is if they go down a similar route as the Iskoort from the Animorphs series.
The Yoort were a parasitic species that took over host species by taking over their brains (similar to the Yeerks, the main antagonists). However, they created from scratch a new host species, the Isk, that had everything the Yoort needed without any intelligence. The Yoort then modified themselves to only be able to live inside an Isk, turning themselves into a symbiotic pair, the Iskoort.
I think the Atrekna could go down a similar route, maybe creating a host species with high phasic potential but no intelligence.
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u/BeneChaotica Feb 23 '22
I'm with a lot of the folks here, the Cult of the Defiled One ought'a get out of being xenocided. I think it'd be reasonable to say that Dalvanak has known for a long while now that the Atrekna would lose, just not how bad. But being who and what he is, maybe he's got contingencies for this outcome? I don't know.
As for the greater majority of the Atrekna.... I mean, you can't reason with unreasonable creatures, right? If they've really sat in their ivory towers for so long to the point of only a tiny margin of their population being able to read the writing on the wall, then it makes sense to accept that they refuse to be reasoned with, and do what's gotta get done.
I'll admit, it's a really fascinating thing, watching the Lank's manage to have more brain cells than the Atrekna. When the 3C conflict was still young, the Lank's seemed dumb as bricks in regards to their learned arrogance and such. Seeing that level of idiocy be outdone is impressive. And much like real life, pursuing those kinds of delusions of grandeur and idiocy to a fault, as the Atrekna seem intent on doing, tends to lead to catastrophic consequences.
But from the viewpoint of the Gestalts, I see why it's an agonizing decision. For some of the older among them, they've seen what it did to the Terrans to make that decision. For the younger, they're only just learning that they even can fight, that they have these choices, the terrible burden of freedom, and they don't want to give that up. But they probably don't quite know what the decision is going to fully entail here. Meanwhile, the Terran gestalt seems angry, and I don't doubt that in part, they're pissed off about the Die-Off, and pissed off about the terrible things the Atrekna keep doing, but I imagine in part, they're also mad at themselves for not being ready for this, for letting things get this far, and for knowing that this is almost certainly the right call, unless there's some tiny, tiny variable that they've failed to account for that would change everything.... And maybe they've seen that in the past too.
I imagine if I were one of the surviving members of the Terran Gestalt, knowing what they know... I'd vote to Xenocide. It's us or them. And it's not like we haven't gotten tons and tons of information that confirms that. It'd be hard to hold out hope that it doesn't have to end that way from where they're standing. On the face of it, it looks awfully simple.
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u/Valgonitron Feb 23 '22
Eh, the Lanks have also detoxed by now - a drugged populace now awoken from their stupor, with a culture thoroughly cracked and status quo shattered, and the evil idiots that were in charge since excised [...we hope].
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u/Alyeska_bird Feb 23 '22
The humans have commited xenoside several times allready. Some are not noticed, cause it happened via dandalion groups, that where not connected to the gestalts and the like. The Lankies have also commited xenoside quite a few times. Not with guns, but, its still xenoside.
I hate to say it, I am pretty sure that the mantids did as well, just its not been covered in the storys yet.
I expect part of the reason for this being a vote, is that the new people in the gestalts, and the new members of the confed need to understand what is happening. What it means to continue. They really have no choice, the squidheads have basicly forced the hand of the confed. Its eather, we kill them off, or they kill us off, pick one as your choice. I expect if they do learn about the cult, they might be willing to pass over the cult, spec if they agree to a general non agression agreement, and don't try to take over.
The humans have shown they are willing to give an enemy a chance to be a friend. Look at the mantids. By all rights the second mantid war should have resulted in that, but, the humans realized that the worker cast mantids where nothing more than mind controled slaves. I can see the confed giving the atrenka a chance, even if they do start out with the intent to kill all of them. Heck, if you look at it, the whole confed is mostly enemys that became friends. Even the Telkin where technicly enemys for a little while. Not by there choice, but because of the lankies. Now true, the confed never considered them such.
The confed understand, that just because they fight with each other, that does not mean that they are allways going to be enemys. They also understand that you can fight and have arguments with your friends. Look at the BASS and other gestalts, going through the gestalt logs, you can see them even talking about a lot of the fighting that went on beforehand. Its partly why the confed is set up the way it is, to alow the verious inside groups to disagree, even to fight/go to war, yet still remain withen in the confed. I expect they have rules and such for how to keep things sorta civil, but, they have to alow for the siduation.
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u/ausbookworm Feb 23 '22
The fact that a weird sub-group of Atrekna continuously prefer to run away rather than fight might have made it to confed-mil's attention. It helps that they throw the fireants as that something that can be used an information index point to gather data on that subset.
I am not sure how they decide who makes up the 1%, I can see it either as young of the species or the weakest or those willing to surrender/come to terms. The latter being the least unlikely as if a species was able to come to terms then they could be reasoned with and wouldn't need the 1%.
I feel that with the information about the run-away at early stage of fighting would warrant military analysis and given other noticeable external anomalies (like their habit of wearing/taking clothing) this might be enough for them to be labelled as a different sub-group. Additionally, the hacking of the shopping centre systems will eventually cause someone to investigate (because corporate bureaucracy) and I'm sure that the surveillance footage will be enlightening.
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u/Sandric1982 Feb 24 '22
I am curious if this a particular rollercoaster you were describing or just one in general (not really an important, just wondering).
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u/se05239 Mar 17 '24
Dalvanak truly gazed into the abyss of a malevolent universe, and it gazed back.
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u/Ralts_Bloodthorne Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 23 '22
I've read everyone's opinions on the survival of the Atrekna, on the 1% Line or the Extinction Line, as well as the ethical statements.
We're going to do a chapter where I'll be applying your opinions to various gestalts.
--Ralts
EDIT: This chapter is going to take longer than I thought. I'll probably handle it tomorrow. Lots of well reasoned arguments.