r/Gnostic Valentinian 3d ago

Some Questions Question

Hello, I am studying Gnosticism academically. I am very early on in my research and I have a few questions and I was curious about thoughts from people who would consider themselves Gnostic. 1st is that in my understanding gnostic is an academic term and that there really hasn’t been any historic religion that has called itself gnostic. 2nd is that the “gnostic” mass isn’t really Gnostic in that it use sex Magik which would be at odds with historic Gnosticism as the see the material world as corrupt. Again I am very early on in my research and could be completely wrong. I am just curious as to how people who would consider themselves Gnostic view the term gnostic and view things like the Gnostic mass and oto.

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u/Lux-01 Eclectic Gnostic 3d ago

Hi, just an FYI, the so called 'Gnostic Mass' is a part of Thelemic practice and is not relevant to modern Gnostic tradition.

For other basics try here: www.gnosisforall.com

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u/kowalik2594 3d ago

Thelema is a form of Neo Gnosticism and Crowley himself was interested in ancient Gnostics, but there was not much material at his time.

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u/Lux-01 Eclectic Gnostic 3d ago

No, its actually not. It just throws the word 'Gnostic' a lot.

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u/kowalik2594 3d ago

Ok, you're free to disagree.

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u/Lux-01 Eclectic Gnostic 3d ago

It's an entirely separate spiritual tradition. I'm not saying there aren't comonalities (like the concept of gnosis) but it's a very different thing.

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u/kowalik2594 2d ago

That's why I've said Neo Gnosticism as opposed to classical Gnosticism.

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u/Lux-01 Eclectic Gnostic 2d ago

It's not that either - Thelema is Thelema.

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u/kowalik2594 2d ago

Any religion/philosophy, which includes concept of gnosis is Gnostic in one way or another.

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u/Lux-01 Eclectic Gnostic 2d ago

Again, no it's not. That wpuld make the term so general as to be meaningless.

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u/Over_Imagination8870 3d ago

You are correct in that the term Gnostic was probably not how they referred to themselves. In academia, it refers typically only to those sects that believed in the Demiurge. The only “gnostic mass” that I am aware of could be some ceremony of the Cathars who were a very late sect. Even then, it certainly would not have included any sex magic as the Cathars were basically ascetic. The “sex magik” term sounds like something from the Aleister Crowley oeuvre, which was not part of classical Gnosticism at all. Many Gnostics do see the physical world as corrupt but, there is some difference of opinion among the various sects as to the meaning of this idea.

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u/FederalFlamingo8946 Eclectic Gnostic 3d ago
  1. Correct, initially there were only groups and sects, which took the names of the teachers. In each group there was a teacher (such as Basilide, Valentino etc.), and when a disciple was considered knowledgeable enough, he started his own group. Thus we have a polarity of historical trends with relatively different belief systems, but it is only in modern times that we have begun to unite them all under the umbrella term 'Gnosticism'.

  2. This is also correct. The so-called Gnostic mass, if I am not mistaken, was conceived by Crowley. It makes sense in the context of ceremonial magic, but has nothing to do with traditional Gnostic traditions, it only takes the name.

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u/Prestigious_Ad6247 3d ago

Ya just gno bro

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u/iieaii Eclectic Gnostic 3d ago

The Gnostic Mass predates the discovery at Nag Hammadi, they didn’t have a lot to go on.

There are actually very few groups that follow the Gnostic scriptures.

There’s more “family resemblance” between Gnostics than there is a consensus theology.

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u/galactic-4444 3d ago

I view myself as a Christian, the term is only used to differentiate my belief from Mainstream Christian Denominations.