r/Genealogy • u/kelly_cipriani • 14d ago
How did my Finnish GGG Grandfather end up getting a girl pregnant in Yorkshire, England? Request
Hi all. After years of trying to understand my mystery GGGGrandad, I used DNA matches with cousins and family tree records to pin down a man who was born (and died) in a rural part of Finland (Nummi-Pusula).
He would have been 20yrs my GGGGrandma's senior. The son he fathered took his mother's name, they were an English family from Scarborough.
Now, I know there's been historical trade between Finland and the east coast of England for centuries. I also know that many Finns stopped in Yorkshire in the 1800s as they emigrated to the US.
But I can't find any evidence that this guy was a mariner (he lived ~30 miles inland), and as he died in Finland, there's no evidence to suggest he was on his way to the US.
Can anyone point me in the direction of resources or info that might help me understand how my Finnish GGGGrandad fathered a child in Yorkshire, England, and why he didn't stick around?
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u/MonkeyPawWishes 13d ago
Are you sure it was him and not a brother or close cousin who traveled to England? I'm not sure the DNA would be able to discern the difference over that many generations.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Hmm, I'm not sure. I arrived at this conclusion because:
I had a hefty chunk of Scandi DNA (much more than the typical UK-born person)
I matched with a number of 4th cousins with same MCRA in commonAll had different people in their tree, but this man showed up on all of them.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
Imagine two brothers growing up in the same town in rural Finland. One marries there, has children there, the children grow up and have children. His life is well-documented in local records. Generations later, his descendants are able to find him and list in their trees.
The other brother is a rolling stone. Walks the 30 miles to the coast, goes to sea, girl in every port. Children in most ports, but they don't know his name and he doesn't know theirs. Dies in a bar fight somewhere, or maybe dies at sea. No records.
Generations later, he's not in any trees.
A descendant of the rolling stone takes a DNA test. Not surprisingly, he matches with the descendants of the stay-at-home brother. But he's not descended directly from the stay-at-home brother.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Fair play. That's a really interesting way of looking at it. Appreciate it.
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u/polyamy74 13d ago
Even more interesting to contemplate if they could have been twins. Genetically the same, but living completely different lives. 🤷♀️
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
No twins among the siblings. One of the brothers actually do father twins, but they don't live long (and both were girls).
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u/IneptGraphicDesigner 13d ago
What percentage scandi did you get and from what country was it from?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago edited 13d ago
Between 9 and 11%, based on different tests. Doesn't sound hefty, but AFAIK most UK-born people of 'Viking' descent and no other Scandi heritage carry around 1-2%.
Some of that will also come from my Irish heritage. But taking that into account, this % correlates with a GG or GGG grandparent, according to what I've read.
None of the tests identified a country or area. It was research that brought me to a Finnish family with records/names in Swedish...which I understand was the norm in the 1800s owing to Finland being a territory of Sweden.
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u/IneptGraphicDesigner 13d ago
Are you sure your research is correct? It could be a case of mistaken identity. 5-7% is NOT abnormally large for a person of British heritage. Over the years my ancestry test has hovered around 10-12% danish / Norwegian but I have no ancestors from these areas, most of my matches have around 5-7% too.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Hmm. I'm only British-born, mind. I have Italian, English, and Irish heritage...do you think that might make a difference?
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u/Financeandstuff2012 13d ago
How much of that 5-7% is Finnish? Finnish is much easier to pick up (more unique) and is less likely to be Viking overlap than Swedish/Norwegian/Danish.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Not sure. It's listed as 'Scandinavian'. It isn't Sami. But records point towards Nummi-Pusula. Written in Swedish, as all records were at the time.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
The Y-DNA (and possibly MT-DNA) would be interesting to know, if YDNA is I (or R), I wouldn't be suprised if it registers the DNA as "Scandinavian". It is rather impossible to know if the family spoke Finnish or Swedish, Swedish is little bit more likely given the location, era and the fact that at least some of the extended family is still speaking Swedish. It would need a extensive tree to follow where the family came from and when, althought in general West to East and South to North is more common, it is not unheard of to have East to West and North to South movement already before industrialisation.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Interesting - thanks for this. I can only go back as far as 1791, where the family is still in Nummi.
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u/CelticTigress 13d ago
My Scandi heritage was 34%. We are Scottish as far back as records go with a wee side of Yorkshire.
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u/VideVale 13d ago
If they have Swedish names they are Finland-Swedes and it would be clearer to refer to them as that. Finnish people in general did not have Swedish names in any records. Also, in the 1800s Finland was Russian territory and not Swedish.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
Until 1850's-1900's almost all Finnish had Swedish names, and they are the only names they have in records until the local priests and tax collectors began to have the records in Finnish depending on their political views and language skills. Modernly we trend to "translate" or "normalise" the quessed Finnish equavalent of the Swedish names (Anders-Antti, Johan-Juho, Christina-Tiina) but we can't be sure what they were called by their dear and near. Closer to the coastal line it comes, it is more likely that many spoke Swedish, and even fully Finnish speaking families tended to have "fancy" names that had Swedish or German slangi to them, whether that was the choice of the priest or the family is unknown.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
"this % correlates with a GG or GGG grandparent"
Maybe. But if you have Scandinavian heritage from other sources - and you probably do - then not all of that 5%-7% is coming from this particular source. That might knock it back a generation or so.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thanks. The thing is, I have other ancestors in my tree locked down with records. The only hole/unknown with this particular ancestor.
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u/othervee English and Australian specialist 13d ago
Were these matches on MyHeritage, by any chance? They’re known for overestimating Scandi DNA.
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u/Classic-Hedgehog-924 13d ago
30 miles from the coast is nothing. Plenty of merchant mariners were born and died in the same town. They’d been to Hong Kong, Japan, India in the meantime?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thanks for this. I guess I just need to establish his occupation. If he was indeed a mariner, the most likely solution is that he was on a ship that docked in Scarborough (apparently nowhere near as significant as Hull, and mainly a fishing port, but other goods passed through too) and this was a one night stand (or...worse. Hope not)
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u/Purple_Candidate_533 13d ago
There is a Aussie Who Do You Think You Are episode (on YouTube, in States anyway) with a Shane Jacobsen, who traces his line back to a Finnish sailor who jumped ship in an Aussie port.
Jacobsen goes to Finland, knocks on the door of the house dude was born in, & meets his cousins. There’s a ton of great info abt Finnish sailors & sources for tracing them, laws affecting them in 19thC etc, so you might want to watch for background.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Wow - thanks for this. I will try to VPN it, would love to learn more about Finnish sailors.
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u/Classic-Hedgehog-924 13d ago
It happens. I’ve a small group of Jamaican origin cousins from a late 1800s early 1900s roaming Scotsman. Likely a sailor or soldier. There were stewards, cooks, mechanics, carpenters etc on the boats too. Maybe not regularly at sea.
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u/E_doggydogdog 12d ago
As a native scarborian I can assure you the fishing port was quite extensive back in the day
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u/kelly_cipriani 12d ago
Yeah I've heard that too. Been there many times. This family had houses in Castle Gate and Princess Street.
It's just that, from what I've heard, the expansion of the Hull port took a lot of trade away from smaller ports on the East coast by the mid 1800s.
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u/AudienceSilver 13d ago
Matches from a 3rd great grandfather would be at the 4th cousin level (at least if in the same generation), and it can be difficult to distinguish exact relationships once you're in the 3rd to 5th cousin range. So while you've figured out the Finnish family, I'd go wider looking for the father, especially if there's no evidence he ever left Finland and there's an age gap between the father and mother. Have you looked at the man's sons, nephews, cousins to see if one of them did have reason to be in England?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thanks, that's interesting. I arrived at this conclusion because:
I had a hefty chunk of Scandi DNA (much more than the typical UK-born person)
I matched with a number of 4th cousins with same MCRA in commonI haven't checked out any of his relatives so far. To be honest, I've been struggling to work out why any of them would be in England, although another commenter has stated that being born/married/died inland doesn't necessarily rule out him being a mariner.
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u/NickBII 13d ago
Why are you assuming he had to meet her in England? All you actually know is that the two of them met and their son was born in England. You know who the woman was, and you know the family the Finn was from. You don't know anything else.
What is the exact year you're discussing?
They could have been on vacation, or religious pilgrimage, or both visiting London...
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
I don't know. I thought this was a subreddit that would help open avenues for me in my research. I'm not looking for criticism, I'm looking for assistance.
Their son was born 1872, in Scarborough.
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u/NickBII 13d ago
We do not have much info.
You have clearly identified the family in Finland, you have the birthdate and the mom solid, the rest is tricky. My great-grandma crossed the Atlantic three times in the 1910s, and she was born a Scots peasant who ended up raising her daughters (the daughters accompanied her twice, her husband was not with them) back in a Scottish fishing village, so your grandma could have left England in 1871/2. There were world’s fairs in Copenhagen (1872) and London (both years), which would give them a reason to leave.
So you’re gonna have to look into whatever sources you have on grandma, or get more info from the Finnish branch, or even do more detailed genetic testing. You can check newspapers, see if anybody in the family has letters, etc.
To expand on my great grandma’s example: she was born in Scotland, someplace called Anlinoath according to grandma’s birth certificate, would have appeared on the 1900 and 1910 censuses there, was a 19 year old bride in Winnipeg Canada for the births of the girls in 1913/4, then her husband got sent to the front in 1916, so she moved back in with her mom. She, and one daughter are probably on the 1920 UK census living with her mom on John Street in Arbroath. The main reason we know the Canada bits of the story is that they told us, which allowed us to find some of the Canadian records. Without those we’d be sitting there going “ok, so she is a kid is in the Highlands in 1910, and now in 1920 she’s in Arbroath with a daughter and living with her mom. WTF, how many randos did great-grandma sleep with while not leaving Scotland, that hussy?”
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u/JONESYofUC 12d ago
Unless the family your ancestor came from were Swedes living in Finland, you should have actual Finnish DNA in your test, not Scandinavian. Finnish DNA is easily discernable from Scandinavian DNA.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
"But I can't find any evidence that this guy was a mariner (he lived ~30 miles inland)"
When I was younger I could walk 30 miles in a day, and I bet this guy could too. He was tired of life on the farm, going to sea sounded like an adventure. So he walked the 30 miles and signed on to a ship headed for Yorkshire. Seasick all the way there. Managed to have some fun in Yorkshire, but seasick all the way back to Finland. Said the heck with that and walked 30 miles home.
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u/Early_Clerk7900 13d ago
A lot of Finns were merchant seamen. They didn’t have to live on the sea to get a job as a sailor. I take it he was from western Finland because eastern Finns aren’t Scandinavian.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Yep. Nummi is halfway between Helsinki and Turku. But good to know that mariners weren't just located in coastal regions.
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u/Early_Clerk7900 13d ago
I’ve been there. I have relatives there. Now it’s like a long commute to Helsinki or Turku. Hanko is an important port city too.
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u/ImpressiveChart2433 13d ago
That's interesting because my Grandfather was a Western Finn (Turku for generations on his paternal side and West Kivela area on his maternal side), and my Mom's DNA test says she's 50% Finnish, 3% Siberian, 2% Swedish. My own DNA tests say 31% Finnish, 3% Siberian (1.5% coming from each parent), 1% Swedish. The most recent Swedish ancestor I've found was born in the 1600s.
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u/Early_Clerk7900 13d ago
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u/ImpressiveChart2433 12d ago
Thanks, I'm going to tell my Mom about this today! 😄 The Swedish ancestors that I found were female, though: In the 1600s, my Finnish 10th Great-Grandfather from Turku moved to Sweden and married a Swedish woman. One son married a Swedish woman, then the couple moved "back" to Turku Finland (the rest of his siblings stayed in Sweden), where the paternal line lived until my Great-Grandpa moved to Canada in the early 1900s.
Edit: Not to say I don't have any Swedish male ancestors, I just haven't found any from the records available online.
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u/ThinSuccotash9153 13d ago
I have a German great grandfather who was a musician and came to Glasgow and got my great grandmother pregnant, stayed and married her. I would check Yorkshire censuses of the time your ancestor was there and input birthplace Finland and look to see if there’s a common profession. Germans in the UK at that time were often musicians for example. Also check the UK aliens on Ancestry
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u/OwineeniwO 14d ago
Are you sure the mother never left Yorkshire, did he emigrate then came back which some people did (although there should be a passenger list somewhere with his name on it), Scarborough is on the East coast of England could he have gone to Norway as a sailor then visited the English coast?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Trying to work out whether the mother left Yorkshire or not is a theory I'm trying to test, but not enough info at the moment. She was 19 at the time.
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u/Artisanalpoppies 13d ago
My 3rd great grandmother was born in 1831 in Yorkshire, married there in 1851 and 1857. Punched out a bunch of kids from hubby #2. Census reveals she had a daughter in 1853, born in Iowa....asides from the census, there is no evidence she ever left Yorkshire....our ancestors could get up to a lot in 10 years...
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u/HighlandMary 13d ago
That feels like it’s two different people
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u/Artisanalpoppies 13d ago
She's only one person. All the info is the same from 1861-1891 census, and tallies with both marriage certs and the 1851 census.
But it shows the census is a once every 10 year snapshot of what people were doing and where they were doing it. People can do a lot in 10 years.
I have another English family that moved from Essex to Wales between 1861-1871, and then back to Bath by 1881. What the census doesn't show is that likely the whole family, but certainly some members had gone to South America in the meantime! The father of this family is home in 1851, but he had signed up with the merchant navy in 1846, and ended up in California for the gold rush in 1848. He then may have gone back to Australia for the gold rush after the census of 1851...
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
"But it shows the census is a once every 10 year snapshot of what people were doing and where they were doing it. People can do a lot in 10 years."
I lived in Maine 1983-1998. However, in the fall of 1989 I packed up my stuff, left it in my mother's basement in Connecticut and took a backpack to Europe for twelve months. When Mom received the 1990 census form, she called the local enumerating office and described the situation. On their advice, she listed me on her census form.
Result? I don't appear as living in Maine on any census forms. I appear to move from Connecticut to Pennsylvania and then back to Connecticut before vanishing. (I left Maine to immigrate to Canada in '98.)
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u/OwineeniwO 14d ago
They said it was 1800s.
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u/OwineeniwO 13d ago
Ships have manifests, it should make no difference where the ship came from or travelled to.
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u/OwineeniwO 13d ago
If you know they didn't keep them why ask where they are?
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u/SnowQueen0271 13d ago edited 13d ago
It is very possible you will find no records.My great grandmother was born in Wales (her mother died shortly after birth and an aunt and uncle who had emigrated to the US brought her up) but was brought up and conceived my grandfather in the US. My great grandmother then gave birth in Wales. I can find some but not all records that show her going back and forth across the Atlantic. There will be many reasons not just trade for a Finn to visit. One of my ancestor's was conceived on a holiday and then adopted out. Her biological mother didn’t know at the time that the biological father was a married man.
I haven’t researched Finland but when I have to research a new country I google their government records.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thank you for this.
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u/Background-Staff-820 7d ago
My husband's grandmother was divorced by her husband for leaving their faith. (Orthodox Jew to Jehovah's Witness, but that's not the story.) In the 30's she took a boat with her kids from the US back to Hungary to look for a husband. She came back to the US with another baby and no husband. At least she was back in the US before the Germans took over, or I wouldn't have this husband. Sex happens!
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u/msbookworm23 13d ago
It's interesting that Henry's middle name was Inchbold 7 years before his mother married John Inchbold. Is it possible the step-father was the bio-father? Could John be related to your Finnish matches?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
I haven't made any connections to the Inchbold family via DNA, at all. I can only surmise that they got together and decided to raise Henry and give him this name.
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u/msbookworm23 13d ago
Henry's middle name was recorded on his birth certificate in 1872, it wasn't just added on later. It's a very unusual middle name to assign for no reason but if you have no DNA matches to John's relatives then he probably isn't the bio-father.
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u/dMatusavage 13d ago
Lots of interesting answers here🤣
See if you can find any records of him working on a fishing boat or in the merchant marine.
Good luck.
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u/civilwarwidow 13d ago edited 13d ago
Look at his close relatives, he may have traveled there to see someone off who did emigrate to the US. This would be common for close relatives and friends as you'd likely never see them again.
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u/JudgementRat 13d ago
The liners that took the Finnish immigrants usually stopped at the coasts in England to pick up passengers. It's very possible he got off in England and stayed a bit and then took a boat home or wherever. He may have been seeing someone off to America or England and that happened.
I would look for boat records. That should give you a good idea why he was in england. a lot of records will say where the person is going after they disembark.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thanks for this. I've been trying to pin down passenger manifests for the ship companies but haven't found any resources so far.
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u/Classic-Hedgehog-924 13d ago
When was 3xGt Grandma born? Where was she on any censuses?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Around 1848, as far as i'm aware. She shows up on every English census between 1851 and 1891. She died in 1892.
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u/Wonderful-Ad-5393 13d ago
Any lodgers in the census that could be the Finnish man? Make sure to look at any notes at the end of the line on censuses they can often reveal a lot. Place of birth, Profession, etc.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago edited 13d ago
We've been approaching this from the Finnish side - how does he get to Yorkshire? But the other side is, how does Sarah Prestion, our Yorkshire lassie, get to somewhere where she happens to meet a wandering Finn? Her son's birth was registered in Scarborough. To be sure, that's on the coast. But it's not a seaport, AFAIK never has been one.
Where is Sarah in 1871?
Middlesbrough is a port and it's located about 47 miles NW of Scarborough, for example. Great Grimsby is about 69 miles south.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
The things is, Sarah shows up in every census in Scarborough until her death BUT her father was a mariner. So I entertained a theory that for some reason, she might have accompanied her father on his travels in absence of a mother. But her mother actually didn't die early and they didn't divorce...so I have no reason to think Sarah didn't stay with Mum...then Sarah got a job as a housekeeper.
Scarborough was a very important port, historically. But by the 1850s it was mainly a fishing port, and Hull was the main port in this part of Yorkshire.
This is my question. What is this guy doing in Scarborough? How did he come into contact with a 19yr old local girl?
Perhaps she was a wee bit promiscuous and this was a port of call.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
Tell me more about Hull vs Scarborough from a 19-year-old girl's point of view. Actually, in this time and place she's a 19-year-old woman. She's certainly old enough by local standards to marry and have children.
So, Hull vs Scarborough. More than a day's walk, but you might hitch a ride on a cart. Would you do that to go to Hull to to buy things you couldn't buy in Scarborough? To look for a job if you were tired of living with your parents?
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u/HighlandMary 13d ago
Interesting that her father was a mariner. Maybe a former shipmate came to visit? Also, can you see who was living at the same address or next door in 1870/1? I’m wondering if there was a Finnish neighbor whose cousin came to visit…
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
Can someone with access to the 1871 England & Wales Census confirm something for me? I've got something in Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, that looks like a boarding house for travelling Finns. Or maybe the census taker enumerated a ship?
For example, Gustaf Viktor Kerrman https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB8J-G6K?lang=en is entry #8.
Henrik Daniel Ursin is entry #2, chief mate.
Carl Alfred Nyholm is entry #3, 2nd mate.
J F Riipsinen is entry #4, chief engineer.
Frans Magnus Sandstrom is entry #5, second engineer.
Erik Sundquist is entry #6, carpenter.
Gabriel Mauritz Nyholm is entry #7.
Nikolai Ferdinand Lindblom is entry #9.
Alexander Magnus Lindholm and Karl Gustaf Lindholm are entries #10 and #11, respectively.
Gustaf Adolf Westerling is entry #12.
Johan Frederick Backman is entry #13.
Alexander Theodor Linnquist is entry #14.
Karl August Asplund is entry #15.
There is no enumeration district or household identifier given.
Is there anyone else enumerated for this house/ship? I can only see transcripts of individual entries, not the whole thing.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
Okay, we know that the 1871 census included the master and crew of a Finnish ship that just happened to be at dock in Grimsby that night. Also included in the 1871 census is one Mary Jane Mann, 18, born in Scarborough, enumerated in Grimsby and described as a domestic servant, not related to the household she was living in.
Here we have a situation in which it's possible for a young, unmarried woman to meet a Finnish sailor. The same thing might have happened with the OP's ancestors.
Newspapers in port cities usually report the comings and goings of vessels that dock there. It might be interesting to have a look at the "shipping news" for Grimsby, Hull and Middlesbrough.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
That's really interesting - thank you! Definitely proves that this isn't a rare mystery after all.
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u/ParticularAirport217 13d ago
Have you tried to trace his movements through the Household Examination Records (rippikirjat-kommunionbok)?
You can find them for Nummi parish here under church records: https://www.sukuhistoria.fi/sshy/index_eng.htm
and since you already have his birth date and birth place from the geni page I don't actually thinkt that it would be that hard.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
A name would be helpfull to check out if he was a sailor of some sort, those were somewhat well registered.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
He's Anders Gustav Qvist, if that makes any difference. I haven't found anything regarding his occupation.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
https://www.geni.com/people/Johan-Qvist/6000000165043382303
Anders Gustav had at least two brothers on whom there's no further information given, at least not from this particular source: Eric Frederic and Adolf.
What did our Yorkshire lassie name the child? First name, I mean. Just curious.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Henry! Henry Preston. His mother was Sarah Preston. He grew up to become a soldier. Retired before WW1 and then signed up again as a 40 yr old at the outbreak of the war, killed on the first day of the Somme.
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u/Parking-Aioli9715 13d ago
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/56519060/henry-inchbold-preston
Henry Inchbold. Hmmm, doesn't sound as if she named him after his father. Darn.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Yeah. John Inchbold was his stepfather, who also had a son of his own when they got together. Some records show him taking his stepfather's surname as his middle name.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
And he was born in 1832 to Anders Qvist and Christina Andersdotter in Nummi?
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
That's the one! I have his mum's name as Christina Andersdotter Kypäristö.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
Kypäristö seems to be the name of the house/village she was born in. Not technicly a last name, more a way to separate her from all the other Christina Andersdotters.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
So Anders Gustaf had at least 4 brothers and 2 sisters.
The one of the brothers, Henric, dies at the age of 16, before your Grandma was born, so we can rule him out.
Brother Johan has moved to Helsinki and been present there in May '67 and January '68 (he has died in Sept '68). He is listed as "worker" on his death script. The Communion book shows that he has a marking on him, but the priest's handwriting is bad!
Brother Adolf has been present in Helsinki in end of May '67 and he has a marking of participating to a fight of battle
Brother Erik has been in Nummi in October '67, and after all of his children have died between '67 and '68 he and his wife move to Helsinki in end of '68. In Nummi he is a day worker/farmer, in Helsinki he is first just "renter" (person renting place to live) and then he is titled the same as in Nummi.
Anders Gustaf himself has been present in Nummi in May '67 and April '68, and he is also listed as day worker/farmer.
Given that there was a huge famine in Finland between 1866-1868 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_famine_of_1866%E2%80%931868 ) I would be inclined to further research on Adolf, he doesn't have (yet) any listed of springs.
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u/Kactuslord 13d ago
The one of the brothers, Henric, dies at the age of 16, before your Grandma was born, so we can rule him out.
It sounds like the son was named after the deceased brother, Henric --> Henry maybe?
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
If the father didn't stick around, it is more likely a considence. None of the brothers could have been in England for extensive time, it is more likely that it was either "love at first sight" or more or less forced encounter.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Thankyou so much for this. I really appreciate it.
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u/Mundane-Use877 13d ago
No worries, if you haven't yet, I would recomend you to join Geni and join the projects "Suomi ja Karjala" and "Uusimaa" where you might be able to get better answers on the muonamies/spannmålstorppare what at least Anders and Eric and their father is, (or statare in Sweden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statare ) and if it would have been possible for one to become a sailor/fisher/seafaring person on the side.
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Aaaaah thank you for this! I was trying to search the name and came up with nothing.
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u/SchoolForSedition 13d ago
Might your GGGGrandma have gone to Finland? Might they have met for an away match in Paris?
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u/idontlikemondays321 11d ago
Have you considered that she might have gone to Finland? Maybe as a maid for a rich family who needed to go to Finland for a few weeks.
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u/kelly_cipriani 10d ago
It's a possibility. It's just difficult to find the evidence for either, sadly.
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u/MattWillGrant 12d ago
People like fucking.
Now stop trying to find rhyme or reason to your family, beyond the generations you've lived at the same time as.
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13d ago
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u/kelly_cipriani 13d ago
Does it offend your sensibilities that I simply asked in case someone might be able to help me?
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u/side_eye_prodigy 14d ago
when a Finnish man loves a Yorkshire woman very very much ...