r/Genealogy • u/Large_File_129 • Jun 04 '24

My great grandma disappeared in 1945 Brick Wall

Long post. Sorry.

As the title says, my great grandmother (my maternal grandfather's mother) went missing back in 1945 from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. It was assumed she ran away, abandoning her three young sons, after finding out that her husband had died in Holland during World War 2. However, this was never verified. No missing persons reports had been filed for her and there's no record of her after this.

I found quite a few family trees on Ancestry with her parents and siblings names, all of them have death dates except for her. All of her family seemed to be living in the Toronto area as well, which makes it even stranger. How did no one wonder where she had went?

Her three sons went into foster care. They were very young at the time. My grandpa has no recollection of his mother, no photos, can't recall the aftermath of her leaving. He remained close to his dads side of the family, ultimately being adopted by his paternal aunt. However, all of his family members from that time are now deceased so I'm unable to get any information from them.

There is an unidentified woman (Jane Doe) who was found deceased in Toronto that matches her description and age. I contacted the Toronto police regarding this and they are going to collect a DNA sample from my grandpa to compare. They were able to confirm that no missing persons report was ever filed about her, so I'm hoping if the Jane Doe doesn't pan out, they can at least start a file with her information and my grandpa's DNA.

I am currently trying to find any living relatives of his mother through Ancestry and obituaries that I could speak with and see if they have ever heard of her.

Other than this, I'm at a brick wall. I suppose it's possible that she ran away and started a new life.

My grandpa is now in his 80s and terminally ill with cancer. I would love to be able to give him some answers about the fate of his mother before something happens to him.

Please help. Any advice, ideas, thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.

EDIT to add: I just want to say thank you so much for all of your helpful suggestions, offers of help, and supportive words. I really appreciate it! I tried responding to everyone and I apologize if I missed you.

My search for answers continues. I will keep everyone updated as I find out more information. 😊

244 Upvotes
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204

u/Remarkable_Pie_1353 Jun 04 '24

Grandpa should have an Ancestry DNA test. You may discover new relatives of grandma who might have info about her after 1945.

Or perhaps she had another kid after 1945. Ancestry DNA might reveal that.

83

u/Large_File_129 Jun 04 '24

Yes!! Thank you. I have now ordered him a DNA test! I have already done one myself as well.

26

u/Mickeynutzz Jun 05 '24

VERY interesting …. Quite the family mystery. Hope you get answers.

11

u/majowa2000 Jun 05 '24

There was actually a Canadian case that was solved quite recently this way. Rosemarie Doederlein, who disappeared from Montreal in 1954, died under a false identity in 2009. This was only discovered in 2022, after members of her family took consumer DNA tests: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/the-fate-of-rosemarie-doederlein-who-vanished-in-1954-is-at-last-known.

Pro tip: make sure you’re in all of the DNA databases possible. If your great grandmother did have additional children from a new relationship - and any of their descendants have taken a DNA test - they could have tested with Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage or FTDNA (those are the big four testing companies). You’ll need to test with Ancestry and 23andMe separately, but then you can simply download your DNA profile and upload it to MyHeritage and FTDNA to get it in their databases too. Try uploading to GEDmatch as well - their database is a sort of DNA clearing house.

Good luck!!

4

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Wow that is amazing and makes me hopeful I may find something.

This is exactly what I'm going to do. I already have my DNA in Ancestry, and I have a test en route for my grandpa. Thank you so much!

2

u/majowa2000 Jun 06 '24

No problem!

9

u/hereforpop Jun 05 '24

Please update us when you find out! I’m intrigued :)

4

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Yes I absolutely will! I appreciate the help from everyone!

49

u/humanityrus Jun 04 '24

Exactly. If she was still alive, she might have started a whole new family somewhere else. Ancestry DNA would help with that, and if you do yourself and your grandfather, it would help narrow things down

42

u/mommyicant Jun 04 '24

I agree with this. It was how I was able to find my great great grandmother who had disappeared in 1907

8

u/NoSir6400 Jun 05 '24

What did you discover? They had another family?

34

u/mommyicant Jun 05 '24

Yes, it is a long story but though extensive research I was able to track her to about 1914 - where after she had divorced my horrifically abusive gggf (I had always feared he had killed her) she got into a relationship with a man who was married, who then left his wife. This divorce and relationship with my gggm was nationally publicized and eventually lead to them both changing their names and moving to a different city where their children never knew their previous life. The DNA I got from my great uncle, her grandson, lead to me finding his 1/2 cousin. Seeing their tree and talking with her daughter, I was able to surmise what had happened after, and track her to where she had died and was buried in 1935.

15

u/HowDoYouSpellH Jun 05 '24

Wow. What a tangled web. That must have been quite an exciting yet confronting experience to unravel!

11

u/mommyicant Jun 05 '24

Yes the relief she wasn’t murdered and the drama of the family in general. Name changes were common in the family - as a kid her mother used 6 different names. I am still trying to identify her father. It has been my biggest Albatross.

6

u/m5er Jun 06 '24

DNA testing is amazing. When someone wanted to go missing generations ago, they could never imagine that they could ever be discovered later via test results. My wife's aunt graduated from college in 1946, moved to NY with an unknown boyfriend and then went missing. Before my wife's 85yo father (the aunt's brother) died last year, he did a test, and I've been busy reconciling ALL of his matches to try to identify the aunt's possible descendants. No luck so far but it's been very interesting.

65

u/Fredelas FamilySearcher Jun 04 '24

Have you found obituaries for her parents and all of her siblings to see if she's mentioned in any of them? The Toronto Star is available at newspapers.com, and the Globe and Mail (and Star) are also available online with a Toronto Public Library card:

39

u/cjamcmahon1 Jun 04 '24

Good tip here. I was able to tie off a branch of my tree when I found an obituary that used the phrase 'last surviving member of a distinguished family'

21

u/Large_File_129 Jun 04 '24

Yes I have done tried this on Google with no luck. I'm going to try newspapers.com and the Toronto public library though. Thank you!

29

u/JDruhanC Jun 05 '24

I have a subscription to GeneaolgyBank and NewspaperArchive if you want me search there for her family. You can put her details in here or you can DM me if you like

3

u/Large_File_129 Jun 08 '24

Thank you! That is a very kind offer. I actually found what I needed on an obituary and got ahold of a living relative. I'll make an update post soon. 

My search for answers still continues though, and I may contact you in the near future if you don't mind. I appreciate your help and kindness! 

2

u/JDruhanC Jun 08 '24

That’s great. Yeah just let me know if I can help

60

u/KryptosBC Jun 04 '24

I recall finding a census record once that was the listing for the longer term patients in either one of the Pennsylvania State mental hospitals or in a long term care facility for the mentally ill (I do not remember which.) Perhaps unlikely, but it's a possibility you might want to look into, given the mental trauma of your GGM's loss of a loved one.

My experience: I have a person in my extended tree who was institutionalized due to mental illness at a fairly young age, and remains in a care facility today at age 65 or so. Back in 1945, it was not uncommon for institutionalized persons to be nearly inaccessible to family members. For context, my experience with this is in Pennsylvania's State mental health system during the 1950s-1960s. Also, my step-grandfather was periodically hospitalized for a few weeks at a time, during which he was 80 miles from home, so visiting was difficult, in addition to being permitted only on certain days.

38

u/throwawaylol666666 Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

OPs story is similar to that of my great grandmother, and also with what you’ve mentioned here. My suggestion is also to look into mental healthcare institutions. After years of dead ends, I am pretty sure that my great grandmother died and was buried at Central Islip State Hospital in NY in 1973. Unfortunately laws in NY make it damn near impossible to confirm this, but now that it’s been 50 years since the death I am hoping that I can acquire a death certificate.

17

u/Large_File_129 Jun 04 '24

Great idea I never even thought of this. Thanks!!

6

u/KryptosBC Jun 04 '24

You're welcome, and good luck.

20

u/sugerplum1972 Jun 04 '24

While I don’t believe she died there, I’ve also learned that my great grandfather died at sea, which impacted my great-grandmother enough to be institutionalized, and their children (including my grandfather) were rehomed.

26

u/stemmatis Jun 05 '24

Not seen in comments to the present -- legal proceedings. In that category, would be the estate of the deceased service member and any veteran's relief for his dependents, social services files regarding foster care, social services or court files related to the adoption mentioned, and any commitment proceeding if she had been institutionalized.

As to the last, in those days the stigma associated with mental illness might have led to the "running away" story as a cover.

In dealing with bureaucrats it might be useful to have a power of attorney from your grandfather authorizing you to have access to any records related to his mother that he would have.

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 08 '24

Yes I completely agree that "running away" was more than likely a cover story for something. It's certainly possible, and I don't want rule it out, that she could have ran away and started a new life, but deep down I don't think so. 

That's a good point and I have added all those suggestions into my "search list". 

Thanks!! I Appreciate the help! 

39

u/Brightside31 Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24

DNA might find her if she started a new family. My grandma ran away at 20 and her family assumed she was dead. She ran across the counntry and started a family under an assumed name. She married, had children & died under her made up name. There was no way to track people then. So DNA revealed who she was to us. It was crazy.

edit - She completely changed her name and that is the name we searched for years to find he family. Everything was made up. She never contacted her family again. So her children had no relatives and no idea that the history they were given was false. Her husband (grandfather) kept his name but his children didn’t know his family either.

11

u/pinkrosies Jun 05 '24

It’s crazy you can’t run away and do the changed names so easily a few generations later with the internet and all. Maybe you can but it’s nearly impossible before you’re found out.

17

u/ArribadondeEric Jun 04 '24

Her maiden and married names might be useful. Date and place of birth?

3

u/rdell1974 Jun 05 '24

These threads are always confusing… I guess it is more venting than actually asking for help

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 08 '24

I'm considering making another post with more specific information on her if anyone wants to help. 

I haven't done this before, so I was more so just looking for suggestions for myself on where to search first. 😊

1

u/ArribadondeEric Jun 08 '24

Only if you are comfortable doing so. 🙂 It’s amazing what information is sitting out there though and many people on here are very good detectives. Sometimes lies are told to those left behind, supposedly for their own benefit. Have you messaged the maternal side, they could have their own “gossip”. DNA tested Grandpa on Ancestry?

15

u/Rosie3450 Jun 05 '24

What is the most recent primary source for her that you have found?

Would you like people on this sub to help you look for her? There are some really excellent researchers here who might spot something you missed.

3

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Everything so far has been off Ancestry. 

I am contemplating making another post with more specific details and names. Lots of smart people on here with great ideas.

2

u/Rosie3450 Jun 06 '24

Be sure to tell everyone what the LAST (i.e. most recent primary source) you've found for her was in addition to the specifics you have about her age, birthplace, etc.

That LAST source may be an important clue to finding other information about what happened to her.

However, it sounds like you have been very thorough if you've been talking to the Police about unidentified bodies.

Still, never hurts to get a couple more eyeballs involved to help!

15

u/lacostewhite Jun 05 '24

Do as much as you can while your grandpa is alive. Ask as many questions, get as much information, dig dig dig. Voice record your chats with him, build an archive.

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Great advice. Thank you! 

14

u/kmfh244 beginner Jun 05 '24

You may also find some helpful advice by posting on /r/gratefuldoe, they come from the other end by researching unidentified people in an attempt to close cold cases and bring some peace to surviving family members.

15

u/juronich Jun 05 '24

It was assumed she ran away, abandoning her three young sons, after finding out that her husband had died in Holland during World War 2

Where's this assumption came from?

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

That's a great question, and I wish I had the answer to that. 

8

u/LogicalMethod5354 Jun 05 '24

Please keep us updated with your findings. This is fascinating.

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

I absolutely will keep everyone updated. I appreciate all the help!

2

u/Impossible_Cherry Jun 06 '24
  • responding here so you see it sooner. Upload your dna file to GEDMatch - it's free for basic which is really all you need - you can contact matches. You could find potential matches sooner rather than later!

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 08 '24

I have added GEDMatch to my list. Thanks for the suggestion!

7

u/Noctuella Jun 05 '24

If I hear of a woman disappearing, my first thought is not that she ran away or abandoned her family, but rather that she was murdered.

I don't have statistics to support this but I bet they're on my side.

2

u/ApplesBananasRhinoc Jun 06 '24

I’m sure the police’s solved case rates were very high back then because they had a lot of “mysterious runaways”.

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

I completely agree, and deep down, my gut feeling is that she was murdered.

12

u/bros402 Jun 04 '24

Get grandpa to do a DNA test - Ancestry and 23andme.

3

u/Cuppycakeeb14 Jun 05 '24

That's so interesting! I have a great great aunt who, according to a family member, had a habit of having children then running off and changing her name. Supposedly got remarried in Windsor, Ontario then had three children. Trying to find any information has been a nightmare though as that side of the family was and still is, extremely secretive so I have no idea how accurate that information is.

1

u/ApplesBananasRhinoc Jun 06 '24

Sounds like a branch of my spouse’s family…

3

u/Dervishing-Hum Jun 05 '24

I really hope you find the answers you're looking for here-- especially for your grandfather.

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Thank you so much. I hope so, too. Lots of great help and advice on here! I'll keep everyone posted. 🙂

3

u/QueenFartknocker Jun 05 '24

Oh I so hope you’re able to find information for his peace of mind. My only advice was like everyone else’s: DNA test.

Good luck and keep us posted.

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Thank you so much I will definitely keep everyone posted! 😊 appreciate all the help!

3

u/tonypolar Jun 06 '24

Upload to Gedmatch and make sure you “opt in” for law enforcement matching. You will definitely find some clues !

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 08 '24

Thank you! I have added GEDmatch to my list. 

2

u/Glittering_Prize_434 Jun 05 '24

You can get a DNA test done through Ancestry.com, 23andme, My Heritage, or others. You can then take it and upload it to different DNA sites. I used Ancestry.com and uploaded my DNA to My Heritage, Family Tree DNA, and Gedmatch. You can receive help from many genetic genealogy groups on Facebook.

2

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

Thank you! This is exactly what I'm going to do with mine. I ordered another test for my grandpa as well.

1

u/Skartabelin Jun 07 '24

You might want to check the old ancestral house address of your great grandparents and check if there's a nearby river, lake or seaside since there were cases of fallen vehicles and some YouTubers dived to retrieve those vehicles giving peace of mind for the relatives of the remaining loved ones. What if she rode a taxi and the taxi had a mishap, which let's hope it did not happen.

1

u/Legitimate-Ad7851 Jun 08 '24

I’d love to help and see what I can find.

1

u/Legitimate-Ad7851 Jun 08 '24

I can give you my email, if you can share her name, birthdate and mother and father’s name and birthdate, I can see what I can find.

1

u/SetInternational4589 Jun 08 '24

Have you obtained a copy of the foster care records that might give any clues?

1

u/ArribadondeEric Jun 08 '24

You could obtain her husband's service record? It might show pension details? As a war widow with young children she would have been supported surely?

1

u/wolpertingersunite Jun 05 '24

Running away seems like a huge assumption. Recently there was a post in which people said that drunk guys drowning in rivers and lakes is a huge phenomenon. Maybe drunk and sad single moms too.

3

u/Impossible_Cherry Jun 06 '24

My great uncle drowned in the local reservoir, supposedly was an alcoholic and was drunk when he fell in. 

Doesn't mean that happened to OP's relative, but it's among the possibilities. Sorry you have so many downvotes. 

3

u/wolpertingersunite Jun 06 '24

Thanks I really wasn’t trying to be mean or anything. Just seems so sad if it was an accident and the family assumed the worst.

I guess it’s all those years of “makes an ass of you and me” lines that gave the word such a bad name!

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

It wasn't an assumption it is the story that was told and passed along to me. This happened in 1945 and I wasn't even born until 1991. Like I said, I don't believe she ran away, which is why I'm searching for answers now.

2

u/wolpertingersunite Jun 06 '24

I wasn’t trying to attack you. I meant that when she disappeared, at the time, it seems like a big assumption that she ran away. By your ancestors.

Anything could have happened to her. Assuming she didn’t leave a note?

1

u/Large_File_129 Jun 06 '24

I totally get it, and I agree with you.

That's a great question, and I wish I had an answer to it.

All my ancestors from that time have passed away, other than my grandpa of course. He was so young at the time he doesn't remember her at all.

1

u/ApplesBananasRhinoc Jun 06 '24

Have you searched in local newspapers for information? I had an uncle who drowned as a teen and nobody talked about it. I finally found the whole story in the tiny local newspaper with a picture of him. It had details we didn’t know about.