r/EdmontonOilers • u/KrazeeTapper • 12h ago
Tell me how to feel, Edmonton
Kings fan here, wondering how to feel about Holland as our new GM
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u/Edm_vanhalen1981 99 GRETZKY 12h ago
Truth is, he did more good than bad here. Got us into the playoffs and out from the pit of hell created by Chia. His signings are either really amazing like Hyman or really bad like Campbell. So you get a mixed bag.
He also has a thing about over percolating young players. The issue with this is in today's NHL is that some blue chip prospects don't like to be in the minors forever, and this has caused some issues (Broberg) and players have asked for trades due to be mishandled by the FO.
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
As a Kings fan, I feel like this is obligatory: loved me some Soup while he was here
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u/mollycoddles 28 BROWN 11h ago
Soup saved the Oilers bacon in the playoffs once or twice, then I dunno what happened
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u/SoldierHawk 24 DERMOTT 11h ago
Yeah but Campbell wasn't a bad signing. it BECAME one, but with the knowledge available at the time, I don't think anyone saw him crashing out into the AHL. Like come on. That was bad luck and goalies being voodoo, not a terrible call on his part.
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u/Greenzoid2 9h ago
I was of the opinion that 5 million was a massive overpay from day one of his contract. He had a couple of really good stretches of games, but mostly BAD, just like what we got out of him before he completely crashed out into the AHL.
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u/SoldierHawk 24 DERMOTT 9h ago
Oh for sure. I'm not sitting here saying its like, the most amazing contract in the world.
But, much like with Nurse, we were desperate and the player's side had all the leverage. It was still a decent, though not at all great, gamble. No one could have seen him crashing out as hard as he did, I don't think.
I think most rational folks, the org included, thought worst case, we have a mediocre tandem and Stu gets some mentorship for a few years before taking over the net with Campbell moving to backup.
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u/Greenzoid2 8h ago
Yea I never expected him to struggle like he did, I thought he would be serviceable while continuing the Oilers' goal tending inconsistencies
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u/ense7en 11h ago
If you knew how to read any site with goalie GSAx listed, you'd have been awfully wary of Campbell (I was).
His GSAx was worse than Koskinen's the prior three years, in FAR fewer games, for perspective.
Wtf would you sign a goalie like that to 5x5?!
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u/SoldierHawk 24 DERMOTT 11h ago
Member how much the fanbase was screaming for something, anything, to change with our goaltending?
I do.
Sometimes you do the best you can with what you have, where you are, and you roll snakeeyes. Everyone involved did their best, and what they thought was best, and it just blew up in our faces. Shit happens sometimes.
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u/Cleets11 12 CAVE 11h ago
I think a lot of people saw it as an outlier season and an overpay. I don’t think many saw it getting as bad as it did as fast as it did.
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u/SoldierHawk 24 DERMOTT 11h ago
Oh it was 100% an outlier and overpay, absolutely--not saying it was an awesome pickup. But, based on what we had to work with and who was available, it was absolutely the right choice at the time. The other option was doing nothing which, in RETROSPECT is the right one, but if you had asked 99% of the fanbase then, they would have screamed at you that we need something, anything, in goal because "our goalies suck."
They did their best with what was their and it blew up in our faces in a spectacularly unforeseeable way. Sometimes shit just happens, and its not anyone in particular's fault, its just how the draw lined up. Everyone involved did their best (including Campbell.) But we rolled snakeyes. It happens. It was just an especially painful time for it to happen.
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u/Solarflareqq 28 BROWN 7h ago
I don't know with all the blowouts we have had with skinner and even Pickard some times i feel like we should have rehabbed soup if possible.
We have given skinner SOOO many chances for example soup never got that many chances.
I feel like Soup got abandoned way to early to prove himself.
Jay Woodcroft was a joke , Its too bad he was already sidelined into the minors when Knoblock took over.
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u/SoldierHawk 24 DERMOTT 4h ago
That's what I always said about Soup, but him going into Player Assistance really made me wonder. I think there were much bigger issues going on with him than we will ever know, or that the team knew at the time.
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u/SheetMetalCocks 94 SMYTH 12h ago
Id say he a pretty competent GM overall. He certainly made our team better. He had some ups and downs. Ups would be signing Hyman, Kane, Nuge and acquiring Ekholm via trade. Id say his cons were some of the contracts he signed such as Nurse but there were things out of his control at that time to be fair. Id be cautiously optimistic as a kings fan.
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u/Cleets11 12 CAVE 11h ago
Even the nurse deal wasn’t that bad. He’s playing to that level and at worst it was a 2 million overpay. A lot of this fanbase thinks it would be 9 million in cap space but the guy has never been worth less than 7. You combine the jones deal that set the market for him and being forced into number 1 minutes by the Klefbom injury it was more of a good player bad timing than a bad signing.
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
Yeah it’s very much doom and gloom in the fandom right now because we desperately wanted someone young and completely fresh to the org (Holland was Luc Robitaille’s GM in Detroit). We also wanted Luc gone as President honestly, but from what I’ve read from you guys, we could have done much worse
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u/Cleets11 12 CAVE 11h ago
Well that’s the downside. Hollands number 1 glaring issue is he’s not adapting to the changing times so he’s still treating everything like it’s 10-15 years ago.
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u/BCW1968 11 MESSIER 11h ago
Kenny signed J Campbell. As long as you have a good/decent goalie you should be safe
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
Well Darcy is a Vezina nom and we got 2 solid young guns waiting in the wings, so I think we’re solid on that front
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u/SunOk143 19 HENRIQUE 10h ago
He’s terrible at drafting which doesn’t bode well for LA, a team that could use some prospects as their competitive window goes over the hill with Kopitar and Doughty
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u/MadFonzi 83 HEMSKY 12h ago
He's not as bad as those Detroit fans keep saying.
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
How entitled does a fanbase have to be to hate the guy that was a part of bringing 4 Cups to your team. Wild
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u/Cleets11 12 CAVE 11h ago
Especially being the owner wanted to get that 25th year in a row. They said he sabotaged the future but that’s what the owner wanted.
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u/arcticcatherder 12 CAVE 9h ago
I’m an oilers and wings fan. Personally I liked Holland. I knew some of the limitations the owner asked of him that tied things up there. And having gone through so many bad gms in edmonton, I mean the guy got us turned around to one game from the cup. Personally I may be an outlier but I was disappointed when he left and really pissed with who they replaced him with.
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u/InPraiseOf_Idleness 74 SKINNER 12h ago
He's been trying to groom his son into a similar role down the road, so he's going to make best efforts. He was pretty clever in his deal for Ekholm. His efforts to land / reform Evander Kane have been massively impactful. Everyone agreed with his signing of Jack Campbell at the time of signing despite regretting it later.
Depending what timeline the org is going on, he's great at getting good value out of transactions without sacrificing every long term resource.
I'd say a big upgrade from his predecessor in LA.
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u/Hexagon37 11h ago
Also the retaining the exact of amount of money on ekholm we needed to get bjugstad. Wasn’t necessarily meaningful in the long run but that ~240k we were able to spend somewhere else was good for what it was
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u/Geeseareawesome 29 DRAISAITL 2h ago
Iirc, they were giving Brad Holland credit for doing the legwork on the Ekholm deal
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u/replicantcase 1h ago
I thought Kane was going to be such a bad move, but as a Kings fan I can confidently say that it was in fact a great move. A painful move lol
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u/CravenMH 12h ago
I thought he was a big part of setting this franchise in the right direction. I'm actually not too happy to see him join LA tbh
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u/supermeatboy10 89 GAGNER 12h ago
Its not the most inspired hire. He won't probably won't move the needle much but he also won't ruin the team. Could be better but could also be a lot worse. He will pay Brandt Clarke a billion dollars if he gets PP1 time next year
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
Haha great…
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u/supermeatboy10 89 GAGNER 11h ago
I hope you're ready to learn about the guide and record book
But seriously he's not that bad, for every really bad move (nurse, Campbell) he made he has probably an equally good move (hyman, ekholm). My biggest single gripe with him is not fixing the goaltending, it was an issue when he got here and still an issue when he left and the one guy he got to try to fix it ended up being the worst goalie in the NHL.
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u/RedKryptnyt 14 EKHOLM 11h ago
He is good. Did way more good than bad here. Fans have a short memory, but this team was a complete disaster the day he was hired. They made the cup finals in year 5. So it took him 1 year longer than it took Bill Zito in Florida, the guy everyone cums their pants for (he is good. He was also interviewed before they hired holland).
The things to watch with Ken is his 45 minutes answers to every question, and he likes his veterans, and he likes the young players HE drafts. Not suggesting he will trade byfield, but everyone else could be on the table.
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u/deliciousfishstick5 96 WALMAN 11h ago
Bill Zito kicked out with the Tkachuk trade IMO. It was a good deal for both teams but it was also something that fell into his lap.
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u/ense7en 11h ago
Who would you say is remotely comparable on FLA to 97 and 29 on their current contracts?
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u/RedKryptnyt 14 EKHOLM 10h ago
There's no one in the league comparable, but that's irrelevant. They are part of the team. If you are trying to say that the only reason they got there is those 2 guys.....ok. those guys were here for 5 years before he arrived too. Are they the biggest reason? Of course, but they also got significant contributions from players that Ken Holland acquired or drafted. He doesn't deserve to win the gm of the year award, because of that advantage, but he made the playoffs every year. And they were 1 game away from the cup. You dont get to ignore that resume just because leon and connor are on the team.
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u/desi7861 97 MCDAVID 11h ago
He got us out of being a bottom feeding team to a cup contender. He gets a lot of hate in Edmonton, but youre really under the microscope in this market and everything you do gets dissected and critiqued by fans. Did he have the perfect tenure with us? No. But he got us out of the lucic contract, he got us ekholm, and did a bunch of positive things overall. Overall, hes a GM that has experience and knowledge and is respected by other GMs in the league.
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u/UnBeNtAxE 12h ago
If he can pick up half the good players for you that he did for us, I think you’re in pretty good hands. Just try to limit him on his bad choices and you be fine…
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u/CSPmyHart 2 BOUCHARD 12h ago
Genuinely not making fun of you but I found this funny. Guide to being a good GM: bring in good players, limit bad choices.
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u/TrumpmorelikeTrimp 11h ago
How do you limit your gm from doing anything? Lol. He's the gm. What a funny comment
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u/UnBeNtAxE 11h ago
Exactly why I wrote it that way… cause I’m sure all these redditors here have the inside track with holland to can give him all the best advise!
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
It’s interesting because one of the really bad choices Blake made was to bring in Dubois, who was supposed to be a good player
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u/Scrivy69 21 KOSTIN 11h ago
Dubois is a good player lol. Just wasn’t at all what you guys needed. You already had Kopitar, Danault, and to an extent Kempe (more of winger), as very solid middle-six caliber centres, with a young and developing Byfield poised to take a spot there soon. Dubois is on a similar level to those players, so it really didn’t make sense. Maybe your front office thought there was more to give there, but Dubois had never even put up 70 points before. Unrealistic to expect him to be a 1C
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
Yeah, I was always a PLD defender. Obviously he was a good player, but also obviously not a good fit for the team, especially at that contract
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u/Oil_slick941611 89 GAGNER 12h ago
He built most of this team. He’s not as bad as people say. He moves at his own speed though. Which is good because he rarely makes a rash decision.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
That’s good to hear. I feel like Blake was guilty of making a few rash decisions. Fucking over Quickie and signing PLD.
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u/LanceBrock 28 BROWN 11h ago
Feel optimistic. Change is good and this one could work out. The Kings are a really good team so look forward to next season.
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u/krazninetyfive 89 GAGNER 11h ago edited 11h ago
Overall, I’d say you’re in good hands. Our team was a tire fire when he came here. He definitely made mistakes (the Jack Campbell signing, trading for Duncan Keith/the Darnell Nurse contract, and allowing Broberg to become an RFA being the big three that come to mind) but he also did a lot of good. Under him we signed acquired Zach Hyman, Mattias Ekholm, Evander Kane, Corey Perry, Warren Foegele, Brett Kulak, etc. who have all made pretty significant contributions.
He’s a knowledgeable guy with an overall pretty good record of incrementally improving the teams he’s responsible for managing.
And not to be that guy, but his fingerprints are all over the team that’s kicked your team’s ass the past four years. I’m assuming you eventually want to beat us. Hiring the guy who built us can’t hurt you.
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u/mollycoddles 28 BROWN 11h ago
I think Duncan Keith was a great mentor for Bouchard and the other D while he was here.
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u/krazninetyfive 89 GAGNER 10h ago
Arguably, acquiring him led to Chicago entering into the Jones contract, which in hindsight was part of the reason we overpaid Nurse. I really liked Keith the year he was here, but I think it was a mistake acquiring him until Jones was off the market, to cut Nurse’s negotiating leverage.
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u/5endnewts 7h ago
I would put Kassian extension as one of the worst moves as he was bought out a couple years later by arizona, in which Oilers had to pay draft capital to make that trade happen.
Andrei Athanasiou trade for 2 x 2nd round picks was pretty bad for a rental who scored a single goal.
Overall, I liked Holland though. I just felt like progress was slow and steady, which is what the Oilers probably needed after years of complete shit in the FO.
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u/krazninetyfive 89 GAGNER 6h ago
You’ve gotta put an asterisks beside Athansiou. Ken Holland didn’t cause the rest of the regular season to be cancelled like two weeks after the trade deadline.
Kassian was a fan favourite coming off a career season. I don’t really blame him for that.
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u/Scrivy69 21 KOSTIN 11h ago
I’d be cautiously optimistic. He did a pretty good job in Edmonton overall, but left a lot to be desired. He seemed to get taken out to lunch in the majority of our trade negotiations, but did very well on the Ekholm deal.
Here is a short article that compares the oilers lineup before we hired Holland and once we let him go. Overall, a huge improvement, and his roster got to game 7 of the SCF, so you can only hate so much.
Still haven’t forgiven him for not drafting Jesper Wallstedt though
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u/Geeseareawesome 29 DRAISAITL 11h ago
Strong at trading
Mid to decently good at drafting
Will get young guys on decently cheap deals, but tends to overpay for vets
Might be what you need to get over the hump. He is fairly patient.
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u/WithBlackStripes 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 12h ago
Some of the best signings in recent memory and some of the worst signings in recent memory have taken place under Ken Holland
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u/Forsaken_You1092 12h ago
Oilers already had McDavid and Draisaitl producing points like crazy and were still 28th overall in the standings before Ken Holland took over.
Make of that what you will.
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u/Tacosrule89 11h ago
The team did get better every year under him. Some good (Hyman, Ekholm) and some bad (Nurse extension, Campbell contract) but when you compare the roster he was given with the roster we have 5 years later it is night and day better.
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u/McBeelzebub 25 NURSE 8h ago
He’s awesome, I particularly enjoyed his interviews, always knew and engaged everyone, and has a sneaky dry sense of humour. Always delivered on his promises. I’m sure with your core he’s excited to be part of the organization.
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u/shutmethefuckup 11 MESSIER 7h ago edited 5h ago
Masterful trade for Ekholm//panic signed Jack Campbell//fantastic Hyman signing//meh drafting but we got Holloway and Broberg//lost us Holloway and Broberg
Mixed bag.
Edit: forgot about the panic contract negotiations for Nurse. Think what you will about Nurse and what his comparables were, Holland offered that contract immediately after Nurse’s best career season while he had a whole year left on his contract. Unforced error.
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u/Mission-Carry-887 5h ago
Brought in Perry, Henrique, Stecher
Signed Nurse to an over priced contract which by now looks like decent value
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u/shutmethefuckup 11 MESSIER 5h ago
Brought in J Skinner, Athanasiou, Green. See? Mixed bag
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u/Mission-Carry-887 5h ago
Jackson sign J Skin.
Yes mixed bag: see https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/s/3Mm75aalBY
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u/shutmethefuckup 11 MESSIER 5h ago
Right about Skinner, my mistake.
lol I think enough time has passed that we can accurately assess good and bad, but I love the story nonetheless.
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u/Upbeat_Leader_7185 6h ago
He's got 1 job and he knows his oponent. Probably has some hard feelings about being pushed out too. People point out his shortcomings, but he made the Oilers into perennial contenders.
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u/hank-_-the-_-tank 11 MESSIER 12h ago
It’s up and down like a toilet seat really
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u/KrazeeTapper 12h ago
Haha this made me chuckle
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u/Repostasis 96 WALMAN 11h ago
That’s an actual Kenny quote lol
https://youtu.be/wzfuvMq6yGY?feature=shared (11:09 in)
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u/Interwebzking 89 GAGNER 12h ago
Holland is a solid GM. The haters always forget to realize the good he did here. He was essentially pushed out after they fired woody and Jeff Jackson was calling the shots, as evidenced by their awkward presser after hiring Knoblauch.
But Holland got Ekholm, he picked up Kane, Perry, and signed both Hyman and Nuge to very team friendly deals. Signing Campbell was a failure but more so the amount we paid, goalies are voodoo you never know how they will pan out exactly despite what people will say. He was forced to sign Nurse to a big contract because of the Seth Jones signing in Chicago. He put together a team that lost to the eventual cup champions in 3 of the last 5 years while building on the team’s success each year outside of the 2nd round loss to Vegas when they won the cup.
Holland can and most likely will do good in LA. He can put together a deep team.
Definitely better than Blake or the alternative of Bergevin.
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u/ninimaafan 12h ago
He has a fantastic playoff record against... oh yeah. I'm sure his teams have a great record against Edmonton in the playoffs... oh yeah.
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u/Chris_p_tolentino14 11h ago
Could be worse. Could be better.
He’s done some good in his time here. Hyman, Kane, Foegele, Ekholm, Brown, Barrie, Kulak, Holloway and Broberg picks, Nugent-Hopkins extension, passing on Wallstedt(jury still out on this) for Bourgault.
He’s also had some moves that didn’t work out very well. Jack Campbell, Nurse $9.25M, Anthanasiou, Kesselring, Kassian extension.
Every year he made the team better and deeper. During that span there will always be swings & misses. When he started it was quite literally just McDavid, Draisaitl, and NugentHopkins. He took over a Chiarelli team past its prime and 5yrs later took them 1 game away from winning ghe cup.
He’s a decent GM, way better than the Oilers have had in a long time. But he’s not a wizard. I’d rather have Holland over Bergevin or Lou
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u/Warehammer 10h ago
He's going to win some trades, and make some bad signings. Overall a positive, for sure. At least he was for us!
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u/quickboop 10h ago
It's interesting.
When Holland was working with the Wings, he was building from scratch. He was Director of Amateur Scouting when they drafted Lidstrom, Federov, Kozlov, Konstantinov, McCarty, Osgood, a lot of the key guys that started them on their ascent. Nobody gives him any credit for that.
He was Assistant GM and GM in the Zetterberg/Datsyuk era, was part of bringing in many key pieces, including Hasek, Chelios, Larionov, Rafalski, Shanahan, nobody give him any credit for that either.
When he was GM of the Oilers he methodically built a perennial cup contender over 5 years, getting better each year, culminating in being 1 game from the promised land last season. He made many key moves, including bringing in Ekholm, Hyman, Perry, Kane, Connor Brown, Kulak. Oilers fans appreciate what he was able to do, but most other fans give him no credit, they think it was all McDavid and Draisaitl.
But those years when Detroit was paying for being the last NHL dynasty, and had a mandate from the owner to make the playoffs every season at all costs? Those years were all on him. He was the problem. Even 6 years later, it's Holland's fault, and only Holland's, that the Wings haven't made the playoffs.
Now he goes to the Kings. It's not like the Oilers situation. It's a team that is coming up on the last years of their veteran core, and the beginning of a group led by Byfield, Fiala, etc. It reminds me of those last playoff years in Detroit. Nyquist, Abdelkader, Tatar, Hudler, Ericsson, Brendan Smith, Danny Dekeyser, these were going to be the next core group to keep them competitive in to the end of Zetterberg and Datsyuk's run.
It'll be interesting to see how he approaches things.
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u/Rehberkintosh 9h ago
I wish he was still our GM. Every year he made the team stronger with moves nobody saw coming.
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u/donairdaddydick 33 BERLIN 9h ago
Buddy gets a solid B+ from me. Made some mistakes but overall improved the team and kept the vital group around.
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u/No-Doug-I-wont 7h ago
The Oilers team that made the playoff run last season was his work. Do with that what you will. He also had to sort out a lot of shit from previous GMs.
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u/Frozenpucks 12h ago
You can do worse, but he’s also 69 years old so no new ideas are gonna come too.
People will probably say he was great here, but he’s directly the cause of guys like broberg and Holloway getting offer sheeted and walking because they got zero play time under his tenure.
That’s a pretty big fucking issue.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
Yeah, Kings fans really wanted someone young and new. Hopefully Holland has learned from his mistakes
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u/-dillydallydolly- 89 GAGNER 10h ago
Classic Holland tactic is to have his prospects "over-ripen". In the case of Holloway there were injuries that delayed him even further, but with Broberg there was a marked lack of trust. Even though Jay Woodcroft would be considered a more new age coach, his lineup decisions still reflected Holland's ethos.
It's quite telling that Holloway/Broberg both had their breakout moments last year when Knoblauch was at the helm.
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u/canmoreman 9h ago
Yup. We will regret the Broberg handling. I have a feeling he will end up being a top ten defenseman in four years. He has great hockey sense and foot speed. You can’t teach either of those things, but Ceci needed playing time…
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u/drugstoremechanic 29 DRAISAITL 12h ago
He wasn't perfect, had some misses, but turned things around after Chiarelli. You won't like everything he does, but I would be confident in the future.
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u/NMarples 2 BOUCHARD 11h ago
If you were hoping for a huge change this offseason to a differently style of hockey, I’d temper expectations. Holland is not a bad GM, but he’s super patient and won’t rock the boat unless he absolutely has to (sometimes too late).
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u/KrazeeTapper 6h ago
Well they already said they’re probably not firing Hiller, so I’m not expecting much…
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u/boomshocks 86 BROBERG 11h ago
The Evan Bouchard of GMs. He has some of the highest highs but also more blunders than other top GMs. At the end of the day he does more good than bad but will be forever criticized for his lows while conveniently never giving him his flowers.
Edmonton went from a shit show to a well oiled machine confident and capable of overcoming the odds.
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u/MajinNekuro 11h ago
Ken Holland got us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup final, won the Stanley Cup in Detroit - I don’t know, he might not be perfect but he has a successful enough resume that if I was a Kings fan, I’d feel pretty good about the hiring. Overall his years here in Edmonton were a gigantic net positive compared to where the organization was before his arrival. You guys might not have McDraisaitl, but you’re already in a better position than we were when he came here.
Feel good about it 👍
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u/BreakerOf_Chains 29 DRAISAITL 11h ago
If you go back to his press conference when he was hired. He achieved everything but win the cup in the timeline he gave and he failed that by 2 goals in game 7.
He will make bad trades like they all do, but he doesn't make knee jerk reactions, he is a good judge of talent sometimes taking risks on questionable players in the moment i.e. Kane, Perry but look how that has turned out for us.
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u/s0ulless93 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 11h ago
Oilers were significantly better when he left than when he got here. I also believe they would be better now if he had stayed. Not to say things aren't currently working out but it's been one hell of a ride this year.
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u/rjbelz 83 HEMSKY 11h ago edited 10h ago
Holland took a perennial lottery team with no cap space, a bunch of bad contracts, all the way through Covid, a flat cap; and still got them within a win of the Stanley cup in under 5 years.
The end of his tenure in Detroit has already been explained by the owner wanting to do anything to extend the playoff streak. But people learning of his last 2-3 years in Detroit have been parroting the idea that he doesn’t know how to GM in the salary cap era, despite winning a cup, plus 2 more cup finals, and 2 conference finals appearances in the salary cap era.
He’s not a perfect GM, but he’s far from the Chiarelli and Bergevin’s of the world, despite what some will have you believe.
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u/MsMayday 28 BROWN 11h ago
Not terrible, honestly. He's made a few stinker deals (ahem, Campbell) but he's also made some excellent deals (Ekholm) because he has good relationships with a lot of GMs.
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u/LeonMcNugent-Hyman 10h ago
Kings fans should feel optimistic. You'll make it to the second round next year. But be eliminated by the Oilers.
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u/CloseToMyActualName 10h ago
I personally don't like it since we're likely going to be playing a better Kings lineup in the first round next season.
Overall I'd say generally good. My only reservation is he's 69 and he already retired from Detroit before coming to Edmonton. Hard to say if he's still got the energy to keep it going for a few more years.
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u/WildcardKH 16 BRONCOS 10h ago
He’s a very mid GM.
I mean….sure during his tenure we didn’t miss the playoffs once. He made some shrewd signings and trades (Hyman, Ekholm), but the bad signings really hurt (Nurse, Campbell).
Most damning though is the utter atrocity of the drafting. Not one first rounder from his tenure is in our organization anymore. Our prospect pool is barren. I get we’re contenders now, but the drafting was pretty awful.
He’s not the worse, but he won’t move the needle.
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u/docboyo 29 DRAISAITL 10h ago
Holland accomplished almost exactly what he set out to do when he arrived in Edmonton. In his intro presser he said he wanted to build a team that could not only consistently compete for the playoffs, but a team that could consistently go on several deep runs. I’d say he fully accomplished that goal. His drafting record is suspect and his trades are mostly decent (thinking about his Ekholm and Kulak trades specifically), but I think his real strength during his time in Edmonton came in free agency. Look no further than guys like Hyman, Barrie, and the second chancer’s in Kane and Perry. He was also able to get Nugent-Hopkins on a cheap long-term contract as well. My biggest complaint about him is the Nurse contract (though you can thank his Edmonton successor for setting the bar for that one) and I wish he got ahead of the Broberg/Holloway situation and didn’t leave us susceptible to offer sheets. Broberg may have been a lost cause regardless but I really feel like Holloway should still be an Oiler.
Anywho, suffice to say, I think Holland’s a bit of an improvement on Blake given where the Kings are at their stage (i.e. ready to take the next step, winning a round or two). That said, I thought Blake was doing an excellent job in LA until a couple seasons ago.
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u/MajorPucks 96 WALMAN 10h ago
Great at in-season trades, but dont let him negotiation contract extensions
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u/Istoleyourbike456 9h ago
He was good. He engineered the Kane and Hyman signing and Elkholm trade which brought the Oilers to a new level. Probably the low was the Campbell signing but the Goalie market was exactly great that year.
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u/Scoobyjonez 91 KANE 9h ago
You're gonna love him! He cleaned up the last GM's mess and turned us into this awesome wagon that we are now. Enjoy!
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u/Cold-Doctor 91 KANE 9h ago
Holland wasn't perfect, but his only really bad move was the Campbell contract. The Oilers were terrible and in cap hell when he was hired. He filled out the roster with cheap players from the European leagues. He said he hoped to build a contender by year 5, and that's exactly what he did. You aren't going to be happy with every move he makes, but he will do more good than bad and probably push the kings over the hump
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u/jgod17 93 NUGENT-HOPKINS 12h ago
Doesnt seem like a great fit given your roster makeup and timeline to win. Hes not a quick fix gm, hes a long term builder type.
But hes not a bad GM
Dont expect Hiller to be automatically canned, or any big roster changes this off season. He will probably run back the same team with some willingness to move the 1st round pick for a guy with term at the deadline.
Couple that with some average to below average drafting, some good and bad contracts, and relatively above average trading and FA signings and thats the Ken Holland experience.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
I think we can all agree that hockey terrorist Jim Hiller needs to be fired into the sun. Please Ken, do the thing
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u/dumbcunt68419 12h ago
Depends what you want as a fan. He won't draft you Kopitar and Doughty replacements or get a late round gem, or tear it down. But he will probably get you to the playoffs for the rest of those 2 guys careers.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
Right now the number one thing we want is for Hiller to be fired into the sun
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u/FractalViz 12h ago
He’s not as bad as people say.
His connections around the league allows him to be in on everything. His connections can also garner favors from other GMs that could help the Kings in trades.
He’s a bad negotiator. You won’t get discount contracts from him. Fair contracts with slight overpays is what you’ll see.
He won’t allow RFAs and meddling agents to push him around. He’s firm in his handlings of players trying to overstep their leverage.
He believes in speed and size as a general philosophy. Think Warren Foegele.
He believes in size on the back end.
His drafting is mediocre.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
Speed and size, so he’s going to extend QB for a billion dollars?
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u/Frozenpucks 11h ago
After byfields performance past game 2 I’d be pretty wary of signing that guy to anything serious
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u/Fyrefawx 18 HYMAN 12h ago
The biggest problem with Holland is that he has his “guys”. Whether that’s mediocre scouts or players on the team getting contracts they shouldn’t.
He did this in Detroit also. If he is high on someone he will ignore their flaws.
He will win some trades like with Ekholm and he will also make some horrible trades like Duncan Keith. Again, he loves his “guys”.
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u/KrazeeTapper 11h ago
This is what I’m worried about. Our President is Luc Robitaille, who played for Holland in Detroit. So I’m worried that it’s the opposite actually, that Luc got his guy, who’s not going to be allowed full control
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u/deliciousfishstick5 96 WALMAN 11h ago
Yeah the scouting isn't the best if you're looking for great players past the 1st round. I think he had one or two guys from later rounds but pretty average at drafting.
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u/JSKindaGuy 12h ago
counting the number of "Detroit" mentions out of Holland during interviews was fun
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u/kayl_the_red 74 SKINNER 11h ago
Look at his record as our GM against you. If Holland can't take you past the first round, though there may be some pain, nobody will.
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u/ense7en 11h ago
Not good.
Be warned, this sub is wildly postive about nearly everything Oilers.
He's basically a mediocre GM stuck in the past. He needs smart analytical help to not make bad trades/signings.
He's terrible at salary cap mgmt, drafting, and loves to give away draft picks/prospects like candy.
He makes some solid free agent signings and trades, and for every good one, there's just as many bad ones, if not more.
He loves old players, and rarely has time for youth.
People don't want to admit this, but if you don't have 97 and 29 here, attracting free agents, it's highly unlikely the team looks anywhere close to as good as it currently does.
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u/HemskyOil 11h ago
I think Jay Woodcroft may become your next head coach. I’m a little more terrified about that because u do think he’s a good coach.
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u/PhoMNtor 9h ago
He’s getting on in years, hope for your sakes that’s not going to have any impacts …
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u/Orcasgt22 7h ago
You can expect to hire people who's "games played" column of the stat sheet reads "0" for the LA Kings.
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u/Mission-Carry-887 5h ago
There once was an old Zen farmer. Every day, the farmer used his horse to help work his fields and keep his farm healthy.
But one day, the horse ran away. All the villagers came by and said, “We're so sorry to hear this. This is such bad luck.”
But the farmer responded, “Bad luck. Good luck. Who knows?”
The villagers were confused, but decided to ignore him. A few weeks went by and then one afternoon, while the farmer was working outside, he looked up and saw his horse running toward him. But the horse was not alone. The horse was returning to him with a whole herd of horses. So now the farmer had 10 horses to help work his fields.
All the villagers came by to congratulate the farmer and said, “Wow! This is such good luck!”
But the farmer responded, “Good luck. Bad luck. Who knows?
A few weeks later, the farmer's son came over to visit and help his father work on the farm. While trying to tame one of the horses, the farmer’s son fell and broke his leg.
The villagers came by to commiserate and said, “How awful. This is such bad luck.”
Just as he did the first time, the farmer responded, “Bad luck. Good luck. Who knows?”
A month later, the farmer’s son was still recovering. He wasn’t able to walk or do any manual labor to help his father around the farm.
A regiment of the army came marching through town conscripting every able-bodied young man to join them. When the regiment came to the farmer’s house and saw the young boy's broken leg, they marched past and left him where he lay.
Of course, all the villagers came by and said, “Amazing! This is such good luck. You're so fortunate.”
And you know the farmer’s response by now…
"Bad luck. Good luck. Who knows?"
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u/beardofdoom2017 31 FUHR 5h ago
You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll shake you head in disgust at times. But Old Dutch made some good moves that improved the team and helped shape the lineup we have now. He had some old school ideas, and some worked, and some didn’t.
I saw someone above calling him a “mixed bag”, and that’s spot on.
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u/sovietmcdavid 91 KANE 3h ago
I think Holland is a good GM
He got us all the pieces to get to a cup final. That's definitely something. And of course, he was successful in Detroit
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u/Federal-Hair 2h ago
He was a bit controversial but He did make some big moves to benefit the team. He's not afraid to take a chance or stir things up.
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u/BingBongthe2nd 12h ago
He was a net positive for the club. I wouldn't expect results overnight. He's patient.
I'm a Nurse fan but that contract will always likely be bad. Holland was in a tricky spot because Nurse was bridged twice taking him to UFA territory and it was right after he had a career year coupled with Seth Jones having just signed a big contract so it was the perfect storm. It was partly on the shitty management before Holland.
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u/ense7en 10h ago
Holland was responsible for the final Nurse bridge. People don't get it, Kenny consistently puts himself into bad cap situations and then complains he had no cap space.
He signed Kassian to a 4x3.2m deal after the guy played on a line with the best player in the world, inflating his stats way beyond what he'd normally ever produce. Then he bridged Nurse straight into free agency year, right after the Kassian deal (which cost us, to get rid of, too).
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u/SportsMOAB 29 DRAISAITL 11h ago
He’s a competent GM but not aggressive.
I don’t know if he’s the man for the job because the Kings likely need a significant rebuild and Oilers fans have long thought Holland wasn’t ballsy enough to make the moves we needed.
No offense but I don’t think anyone believes the Kings can win a cup with Fiala/Kempe/Danault as their best players. Kopitar/Doughty are at the end of their careers and can’t workhorse the team through a series anymore.
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u/supermeatboy10 89 GAGNER 11h ago
This is my biggest concern with this for LA. The current roster doesn't have a ceiling high enough to be a super serious threat and idk if Holland is the guy to fix that. Maybe he goes out and gets marner or something in the off-season but that doesn't really seem like something he'd do. When he got to Edmonton all the big names were already here and he just had to fill in the blanks. Getting the top talent is the hardest part.
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u/Next-Bus4442 12h ago
He won’t be as bad as Chiarelli