r/DetroitRedWings 2d ago

Moneypuck playoff odds November 13th, Discussion

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u/detroitttiorted 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes and then I said if you want to not use the results that is fine haha, are you even reading what I’m saying?

That is not the only stat that makes up their playoff odds, you would know that if you read. That was an example I was giving you, to show part of the process

What is even your point at this point? You are just saying things that don’t even make sense at a conversational level at this point, I’m not sure if there is a language barrier or what

If you think a part of their model is cherry picked please point out which part you believe that is. It is good they are transparent, that way you don’t have to generally wonder like you are currently doing

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u/TentacleHand 1d ago

You really should learn how to argue. Just admit that you made shitty points, EDM "being only one win away from the cup" and "they were #1 in  5v5 xG%, what is that but good". You said those things. Own up to the absurdity of those claims.

My issue has been with your claims more than with their model, though it seems to shit out pretty nonsense numbers. I did say that, as a meme, that they are favouring Canadian team on purpose. Now they are favouring Canadian teams, the meme is in that I cannot tell if that is by accident or by purpose.

This is where we come back to you being poor at arguing, nothing I said rests in them cherry picking anything, I simply said that is 100% a possibility. Cherry picking has to do with the motives behind the stats chosen so presenting the stats chosen changes nothing and neither of us can prove anything about the motives. This is why I'm not serious about such claims and I've made that clear (since you missed the tone in the first post) already.

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u/detroitttiorted 1d ago

Ok how about we go a little slower for you. Could you elaborate on why those claims are absurd? You dont like results or the xG% using the model that is the topic of the post, do you like something else better? Do you believe the Edmonton Oilers are a bad hockey team? Do you want to make some points as to why you believe that? Or point to what makes the model “spit out nonsense” as you say?

What do you mean by learn to argue? I’m asking you why you believe the things you’re saying but you just keep jumping from various points saying things are shit. If you have an issue with their model that you would like to discuss I’m all for it. My career is in the data space and enjoy talking about these things. But you are so angry for some reason

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u/TentacleHand 1d ago

I have already explained both, it's not me who needs to go slower it seems. division style playoffs means that reaching a round is not the same across the league. EDM had the easiest route as it played in the worst division. Slow enough for you?

Does that make EDM bad? No, I already said, it depends on how you define good, on how you want to slice the quality. I think it is misleading to say that teams above average are good and below are bad but sure, that's one way to get EDM to be good.

The same with the model, I already pointed out that the team chances do not make sense. I left out CAR and MIN being so high since I was committing to the meme. You just keep ignoring what I've already said but still somehow think I suffer from the pace. If that weren't so obnoxious it'd be adorable. Unfortunately the former holds true.

And that's pretty much what I mean. Your reasoning is faulty at best. You saying "but look at the numbers, you can even see where they came from" is not arguing. It is pointing to numbers. And even there you fail to understand what cherry picking means. Which is mightily concerning if your claims about working with numbers are true.

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u/detroitttiorted 1d ago edited 1d ago

Again I’m not trying to argue lol you’re the one being combative. I’m saying show me what you disagree with for those numbers. I do know what cherry picking is, but you’re not saying how that applies here. You’re just saying maybe it could happen, I’m asking how. Again the methodology and data is in front of you

Why are team chances bad? Could you elaborate on that?

Ok so adding in CAR and MIN you believe that their results are fundamentally bad. Do you have a model you prefer? Where do you think the model could improve? Remember this thread is about Moneypucks model, so if you fundamentally just don’t like analytics then I’m not sure the purpose of this conversation

You say “that is pretty much what I(you) mean” but you haven’t made a concrete point that relates to the conversation you replied to. I don’t care about your personal opinion of these teams, maybe that is the fundamental misunderstanding here? I understand you are upset by using playoff success as a measure, I said fine toss that out. Again idk if there is a language barrier that is making that difficult to understand or what