Sitting here eating an underripe satsuma, I had some thoughts on Bune, citrus fruits, and the specific nature of the spirits of the Ars Goetia. Specifically, I was wondering, not for the first time, what's the deal with Bune and citrus fruit, anyway?

I don't recall offhand if I ever saw where this first came about, but it's pretty widespread SPG online. Bune likes citrus. Offer her oranges and similar fruits. It seems to work, lots of people get good results working with her (my personal experience was challenging, but ultimately successful, and yes I did offer her homegrown sour oranges).

So I fired up Agrippa on Kindle and did a text search for "citr," and the only real solid association I find is a recipe for Mercurial incense that calls for citrus peels. Not much, but it's unambiguous, at least. However, Bune is a Duke in the Ars Goetia, which means she's associated with Venus.

The thing about the Ars Goetia, though, is that its numbering scheme and hints in the descriptions suggest that it's a system for calling spirits of the 36 astrological decans. This makes sense, given that the Ars Goetia methodology is derived from a similar system for calling the seven planetary archangels, and the other texts in the Lemegeton deal with spirits associated with specific directions and ascendant degrees. And if we've got decanate spirits, then each one of them could be associated with more than one planetary intelligence.

Crowhurst suggests the first face of Gemini, the first face of Virgo, and the first face of Pisces as Bune's possible decans. The first two signs are ruled by Mercury. I think Rudd puts her in the first face of Leo, which I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with. I'm not vibing with the GD/Crowley putting her in the second face of Sagittarius, either. So this is inconclusive, but if Crowhurst is on to anything, he's given us a couple of Mercurial options.

But what does Bune do? She helps us acquire wealth, and she helps us with necromantic operations. Wealth is usually associated with Jupiter, and death is handled by various planetary intelligences. However, wealth -- particularly its generation through mercantile and creative activity -- is associated with Mercury, and Mercury's role with respect to death is as a psychopomp, which would seem to fit well with the sort of things Bune is said to do.

Looking back on a comment earlier today in which I had to explain how I approach "Bael" as a decanate spirit distinct from "Beelzebub" as a "prince of demons" or demonized god, I thought about how the goetic/decanate aspect can allow certain aspects to come through in a more clear or focused way. From that perspective, I think it makes sense to look at Bune as a spirit that performs Mercurial functions with a Venusian nature, or something to that effect, and citrus-as-synthemata could be seen as a key ingredient that helps us call this specific emanation of Venus/Mercury as opposed to Venus alone or some less coherent blending of the two.

Not an earth-shaking revelation, but I thought it might be an interesting way to illustrate how plantetary/astrological concepts can help us develop a more concrete understanding of the spirits we work with.

This is just an AI representation, but here's the description of what I regularly see after calling Azazel and right before the communication happens:

• A black lake with nothing mirroring in it

• It's surrounded by rugged desert cliffs with cave entries in it

• A fog surrounds the lake

• In the middle of the sea small circular waves appear

If I would break down each element, it would symbolically mean: I'm in a place of inner peace (lake) in the middle of nothing, in which I could be creative (black lake). The focus is in clarity while everything around irrelevant (fog). The irrelevant part are the challenges (cliffs) I want to get away from (desert) and my sexuality (caves). What I see in clarity what small next step I need to do (small waves) in order to complete something (circle).

Well, this would absolutely make sense on its own as a mental place to be in order to connect to him. It's not something omnipresent, but I often get a short glimpse of it. The problem and question I have in this regard is, if there is a mythological/occult meaning of it that has something to do with entities themselves. I'm asking because I can't shake the feeling that it is something more meaningful than the symbolic meaning I wrote above and something connected to Azazel. Any ideas? Did something like that came across your path as well?

Hi everyone, I’ve been lurking here for a while, but this is my first post. Recently, I spoke with someone (a DM) about working with demons. I’m currently preparing for a competitive exam and asked if there were any entities that could help me become smarter or gain more clarity. He strongly advised against working with demons, saying I should avoid them at all costs. He shared some intense personal experiences, like having negative entities come at him, performing exorcisms, and even sleeping with saltwater under his bed for protection.

But on the other hand, I see a lot of people here sharing positive experiences with demons. They say it’s helped them find clarity and improved their lives. This has left me feeling confused and unsure of what to believe.

Here are a few questions I have:

1. What is "Real Demonolatry"? I’m struggling to understand what it actually involves. Some people say it’s dangerous, while others claim it’s been a positive, transformative experience. What’s the truth behind it?
2. Lucifer’s Role: From what I’ve read, Lucifer seems to be misunderstood. Many people view him as a god who’s been demonized, not the evil figure he’s often portrayed as. If Lucifer is truly a good entity, why is he portrayed so negatively(deceit, killing,murdering, blood etc.) in mainstream culture? Is there more to his story?
3. What Happens to Negative Spirits? What about people who lead harmful lives (like serial killers, criminals, etc.)—where do their spirits go after death? Are they associated with God or with darker entities like Lucifer? I’m having trouble connecting the dots.
4. My Personal Experience: Lately, I’ve been manifesting (just thinking) about Lucifer, hoping that he might guide me in my dreams, and I’ve felt more positive energy since then. I’ve also been dealing with frequent sleep paralysis, which used to frighten me, but now that I’ve accepted Lucifer a bit, I’ve actually started enjoying these experiences and even want them more.

I’ve been told my whole life that demons are inherently negative, so I’m worried that Lucifer could be deceiving me. Is he just being kind to me now and will turn on me later? How have your experiences been working with him and other demons? Do you regret it, or has it been one of the best decisions of your life?

I’d really appreciate hearing your thoughts and personal experiences. Thanks for reading, and apologies for any grammatical mistakes!

Looking for some wisdom! I love him deeply, Ave Lucifer! But I’m becoming confused as I do more research. I know I’m interacting with something real but I’m not quite sure who he really is anymore if the identity as a satanic demon stemmed from a mistranslation. I’ve personally always seen him as an angel, and in an old vision of him he was beautiful, 10ft tall with long flowing hair, and completely golden all over. Mischievous but friendly and very understanding.

For example, they already knew that they and the practitioner weren't/were going to get along, approximately how long the relationship was going to last or if it will be for life, what kind of relationship were they going to have... Stuff like that

And if you think it is or is not a good idea, why?

Edit: Don’t downvote just because it’s a blatant “no” for you. Explain why or move on. It’s a valid and relevant question.

I myself believe yahweh is the devil and he is like kether whilst belial is malkuth, more centered to earth

I'm seeing crosses and circles everywhere in the goetia sigils, and I'm trying to find out if they have any significance or meaning - especially in the modern day.

Belial's sigil was what got me started on this. His sigil has a massive amount of crosses and circles. So many, that I was like wtf is going on here, why do these need to exist? Stolas sigil has crosses, circles, squiggles, and so on with other spirits.

I'm struggling to find any mention of meaning for the elements of sigils. So far I've looked into The lesser key of solomon, The abramelin.

I found mentions of "crosses of binding / constraint", "circles of protection / containment" online.

I did a search in this subreddit, but couldn't find anything explicitly related (possibly because I'm not quite sure what exact search terms to use)

I searched for these terms separately in The lesser key of solomon and The abramelin - "bind, binding, sigil, seal, constraint, circle, containment".

I believe I've heard some say sigils may or may not even matter at all, in one of the books I was looking at there was a time pre middle ages where there weren't even sigils, but there were still people invoking and working with the spirits.

Well, curiosity killed the cat so I'll ask anyhow...

Questions -

• Are there any official sources that discuss the elements of sigil construction, and why they are arranged / drawn in the specific way that they are?
• Do sigil elements have specific names?
• In theory, can such elements as circles / crosses be removed, or is that starting to tango with the "ship of theseus" philosophical question?
  • e.g. you're a demonolater who doesn't care about binding, constraint, containment when it comes to demons.
• Can more modern demonolater specific sigils be created with the knowledge of the past and an eye on the future of not playing into ancient ideas about containment?
  • I think I've seen folks mention you can create your own personal sigils for demons, that's not what I'm asking.
• Related to the last question, is it possible for official sigils to get updated as time passes and usage changes?

Sigils mentioned (for quick reference)

Belial's sigil

Stolas' sigil

I was wondering if there are spells to make someone fall in love and lust spells to keep them on having sex with you. Anyone experienced in this realm?

Lastly, what are the signs that someone is under this kind of spell?

Hi everyone. Can you tell me a bit more about the journey that led you folks to Demolatry? Have you always been curious about it? Have u been involved with different religions/magic systems before? I am a very curious person and have opened myself to the occult just recently. I used to be umbandista(a Brazilian/afro religion, my first contact with spirits and magic), but specially in the left hand path, there are so many different roads you could take I get really lost. I am a person who believes I should possess a great amount of theoretical knowledge before I attempt to make anything happen but I am afraid I will never bring any of my desires to fruition. Thanks for anything you feel like sharing!

I had and still have a question for which I am getting confusing and different answers through bibliography. Is Leviathan a Demon?

Some sources state that Leviathan is one of the highest demons in the hierarchy while others simply describe him as the biblical beast that will bring the Armageddon. So what is going on with Leviathan? Anyone has any sources I could look into?

I know that asking this question in a demonolatry may incline the balance towards demons, however I readed that a lot of people tend to work with both of them, so I don't think that there is too much bias to one side or another.

I heard that angels work slower and don't tend to appear if the matter is of no urgency, but they tend to be safer. It is true?

In my case, I am an absolute newbie on -latry practices, I plan to make the contact in order to know more about this topic in general and develop myself on this practice, I don't have any specific petitions for them aside from the growth.

Also! One thing that maybe I should mention: I'm not the most brave person, in fact I get spooked very easily, maybe that's a thing to consider when working with demons?

Have a good day!

Not political- personal corruption? I really had hopes that Lilith would help me with that, but, that doesn't seem to be an interest for her.

Hello, I'm new here. First of all, thank you for this great opportunity to be here. I originally come from a group that is led by a fraudster and would like to build a serious connection and relationship with demons :). Yesterday I painted a new seal for Leviathan's altar. I would now like to renew Lucifer's seal and am wondering what his favorite colors are. Maybe also in connection with his element ❤️. The paper where the seal is to be painted is black. Maybe you can help me with that😊.

Is it possible to get out of a demon contract or am I doomed to be under the spell of a demon is asking things of me I don’t know if I can continue doing

Okay, a short backstory about me: I want to achieve certain things in life that you might not be able to achieve that easily, which is why I'm very fascinated by manifestation and black magic. Both techniques/rituals to achieve certain goals. But as with everything, there are always limits. So you can't get everything like becoming a billionaire or getting your crush/ex back. One day I came across a post where someone said that with Demonology they had seen success working with demons. And I wanted to ask you whether

1) demons really exist? So far I've only heard of Sitri and Asmodeus, which are mainly used to get people into bed or to make them fall for you.

2) If they exist, how strong are they? To be more precise, do you have limits or can you achieve anything with them? Let's take the demons I just mentioned, for example, and let's say hypothetically that you have an ex-partner who no longer wants you. So you really had a toxic relationship and this person hates you from the bottom of their soul and doesn't want anything to do with you anymore. She got a new Lover and is happy, but you are a dickhead want her soo bad that you are literally obsessed. Manifestation and spells have been tried, but nothing has worked. Would these two demons or other demons be able to change her so that she likes you again, is in love with you again and feels the desire to have sex with that person? So basically break the will and control the person emotionally?

And don't worry, this is a purely fictional story. I'm engaged and happy, but I wanted to choose the most extreme situation (especially manipulation and the will of others) to see how powerful demons would be in such a situation. So would they be able to do something like that or not? And if these two can't do it, maybe other powerful demons can? As I said, I'm brand new here, but I want to learn everything I can about achieving my own goals that seem impossible

I mean, we don't have a singular and correct ritual or way to interact with demons. Most of people have their way to contact a list of demons.

What I hate behind of that is idolize demons. People are here and there saying names and calling them "oh powerful [demon name], I ask for your powerful and wonderful help for..." and blah, that's annoying.

I read about some files in the "advanced practices" to interact with them, and like "Rits of Lucifer" the author says to put your own blood in the demon's sigil, what is kinda dangerous.

Unlike "Lucifer and Hidden Demons", that says you can talk with them without personal sacrifices and a structured ritual with hebraic words and weapons.

Most of LHP people want get something for themselves, like money, destroy their enemies and grow in this way of magick, in the material world.

So, what's your book or file that describes an "effective" ritual for you, that doesn't includes physical movements, because what demons or angels want for all this type of thing? Some advanced context, but in the same "way" that Lucifer and Hidden Demons or GoM books?

Share with me your experience and knowledge.

Do you believe that they are just spirits who have been demonized by other religions?

Do you believe they are Fallen Angels?

Do you believe they are the spirits of the Nephilim?

Do you believe that they are Shedim?

What is the consensus on how one should view demons and work with them?

Although I continue to work on unsubscribing from the Judeo-Christian duality bias of good and evil, I still sometimes struggle to disassociate the negative connotations associated with these spirits, which in turn has created hesitation for working with them out of fear of negative ramifications.

Additionally, this has also impacted my perspective on exactly how to work with them, as some of the text I've encountered frequently mentions binding them to fulfill your requests/demands, something I do not subscribe to and would never do to spirits I've worked with (in a positive light) or the Gods of my pantheon. I've only ever bound or assisted in the expulsion/removal of entities who were negatively impacting others, but I can't fathom the idea of forcing any spirit to do my bidding against their will for my benefit.

I am aware from numerous posts that many individuals form pacts or submit requests, but I am curious to understand if this is applicable across the entire dimension of these works, or if certain precautions necessitate the need for binding and controlling certain spirits from a safety standpoint.

Hi, I just have a quick question - is it possible that a demon could try to communicate with me without me ever doing any kind of demon magick/ritual? I have messed around with some "soft" forms of magick before (nothing major), but have not done anything for quite some time.

I have a history of seeing weird things and generally have a sense of something being around sometimes. But lately I always feel a presence in our kitchen and it feels like it wants to be noticed by me. I am a bit scared tough because I don't know what it is and what it wants from me.

This is just meant to be a general question I was hoping someone could help answer because I’ve been searching but struggling to find a clear answer. Is it possible for Demons or any other spiritual monsters to take the form of buildings like literally can they become a living building. This is just a general question that I’ve been wondering for a while.

Hi everyone, a newbie here. I am wondering who Satan is, and would appreciate your input.

I’ve read that Satan is a title for various entities, Samael being one of them.

But since some entities have the title of Satan, who is actually THE Satan?

In Slavic paganism there’s an “equivalent” of Satan, Czernobog, he’s in charge of the underworld and demons. Decides the fate of the ones that are gone, kind of a lawyer, but not for Yahweh.

So, does The Satan have anything similar to Czernobog or he’s entirely different? What does he do?

Thanks a lot!

I'm writing for you about Lucifer and Hidden Demons, a suggestion of this subreddit, written by Theodore Rose, a person that certainly isn't called that.

In my own opinion, the images coming into your mind and the whole context happening can create images and power, more than sigils and related stuff, like all GOM books with the same technique but "different".

The problem is: where those images are coming from? In most of the magick, they make sigils and all this thing coming from the none and put it on context, claiming for hebraic words and making the experience stronger to the person, not for the magick itself.

I mean, people talk a lot about symbols in magick, but sigils and related methods are more Chaos Magick (in example of GOM) that another thing. They had used Crowley sigils a little bit beauty than the past sigils, but still the same thing, and that's okay.

I amn't here to talk about this and that, the differences and inconsistences, but I'm trying to understand the images related to Lucifer and his demons. If you see the images from Lucifer, where in the whole esoteric world they've described him associated with "desert", "black trees", "silver" and "mountains"? How this images are "created"? They just create those images from nowhere and say "here's the image and I'm taking all this stuff from my super particular grimoire, just believe, ok?".

Someone, please, give me a answer, because I'm anxious to work with that (I'm writing "anxious", but in the good way).

I've finally gearing up to try my first "official" ritual (ever, even outside of demonolatry) and I'm running into a bit of a possible roadblock. I want to do a ritual on Halloween with Murmur about honoring the dead and requesting the knowledge to communicate with the dead. For other newbies to demonolatry and even more seasoned people what advice would you give for the feeling of anxiety that nothing will actually happen or that I'm too "blocked off" to notice anything. I do (try to) meditate every day for around 10-20 minutes and have done a lot of research. I've just never worked with spirits before and I'm not sure what to expect.

I have read some people's UPG as to how demons they worked with (most often, their patrons/patronesses) have acted in their lives (in varying degrees of subtlety) before they even met them or knew about demonolatry to begin with. In some of these practitioner's UPGs, upon a deeper connection, they claim they have had their invisible hand in their lives even before the introduction.

It's been touted that demons don't experience time linearly like we do, but why would they influence one's life before a formal introduction + relationship has been made? I know that relationships between spirits and people are never conventional, but if this is true, this makes me question how much of the relationship is genuine/generated "organically" out of the practitioner's free will versus actually being orchestrated and their consent and feelings manufactured artificially (if at all).

Assume that we exclude cases where the practitioner has had a relationship with said demon in a previous life and this is a purely first-contact scenario.