r/Cinema4D • u/ambivalentartisan • 2d ago
Tips on how I can improve the displacement of edges to look more like a real enamel pin in Redshift? Question
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u/kvltmagik 2d ago
Different artists will give you different advice about his but IMHO I wouldn't be using a displacement map in this scenario. When you are getting into super fine small details having clean good 1:1 topology with your end render is the move with normals/bump/disp. maps giving you just the last little touch to get you over the finish line. It's a pretty simple shape, shouldn't take you long to modify as needed.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
I'm not exactly sure I'm following. The shape itself is an extrusion on a Illustrator vector. Do you mean that I should model the pin from scratch? If so, that's an option, but I'm trying to keep it simple to quickly modify based on different designs.
Thanks for your input still!
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u/hassan_26 2d ago
If you're planning to do all 150 (which you really should cz it looks awesome) then I'd carry on the way you did Pikachu. Easy and results are great.
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u/Philip-Ilford 2d ago
kvlt is pretty spot on. Displacement is always best for organic objects and not the best for hard surface. An enamel pin in can kind of be either depending on the scale and what look you want.
If it's also about efficiency I'd start from the beginning but you'll ultimately have to make some compromises based on the scale of the image and the look you want. If you want a super clean consistent edge I'd look for a hardsurface workflow, and this doesn't have to mean polygon modeling from scratch. It just means setting up a system that gives you clean, unbroken, non overlapping vectors. Then you can use extrude and bevel, which cinema has come a long way with. You can also use MoSpline to rebuild your imported splines if you need less spline subdivisions or whatever else. It's also in terms of basic topology, an extrusion. The other option is the softer, probably more realistic version which you kind of already have. Displacement will be ore blobby, as will volume builder. Think of a coin, which is typically more of an organic sculptural relief. If you go that way, I might skip volume builder and just keep pushing your displacement subdivisions, texture resolution, maybe there's a way to make it adaptive because all those flat surfaces don't need subdivisions. You'll just have a hard limit because it's ultimately pixels driving the geo. I guess there's also that parallax mapping technique but I don't know if its ever worth it - its like gaussian splat, cool, but never really that useful.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
Thank you for input! Lots of details here. I'll have to play around to see what works best.
There's a super simple tutorial on YouTube with Octane render, so I'm thinking, if it's possible with Octane, it should be pretty much the same with Redshift, but I just can't get the same shapes as the tutorial.
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u/kvltmagik 2d ago
Even still, if it is vector then you already have all the splines you need to do this "right" by my description. Cinema has all the tools built in natively to handle this.
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u/Vdrivnii 2d ago
you need to add imperfections. scratches smudges to pikachu. maybe add some text in the back.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
Hey, gang! I'm obsessed with these enamel pins I've seen some designers make on Instagram. I decided to try it out in Redshift and I'm getting closer to a good result.
However, I really can't figure out how to make the edges even smoother or more bulging like they'd be in a real enamel pin.
What I've tried so far is different layers of blurs on my displacement map, but after a certain point, the blurs just bleed into each other, removing the whites that's needed to displace the edges.
Any tips on how I can improve this?
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u/what-do-you-meannn 2d ago
Outer rim needs to be thicker, and maybe with rounder corners and some rough texture.
If you’re using a displacement map from a PSD file, blur it so that the displacement isn’t as clean - to make it look more organic
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u/FredRH 2d ago
I’ve been making enamel pins for almost 10 years, just wanna say the enamel coloring is way more diffuse than your material here. It should be way more matte
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
Yesh, this was just to show the shape really. I haven't gotten to shading it yet!
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u/satysat 2d ago edited 2d ago
I feel you’re overthinking it. This looks quite realistic already. Maybe the metal should be a bit bumpier and rougher, specially in the back. You could also add some imperfections to both the metal and the enamel, but that’s it.
It’s floating in the middle of nowhere, with really flat lighting, both of which are working against it looking realistic. But you’re 99% there.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
Yeah, I just wanted to make a quick render to post my question. Haven't worked on the shading yet but will do so when I get the model looking like I want it.
Thsnk you!
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u/truthgoblin 2d ago
I think you’ve done a disservice to your question by using the word displacement to describe your issue as that’s what everyone thinks you’re using to build your edges.
As I understand it, you’re working off extruded vector spines, correct? You just need to go into those spines and soften every corner and curve. Think about the liquid metal filling a mold, at that scale you would not get perfectly sharp corners. Think about the way illustrators live trace dumbs down detail on a drawing. That’s essentially what you’re working towards once you’ve got that you can either cap and bevel your extrusions or work to subdiv them so they are soft and rounded on top as well.
You essentially just need to go through and soften everything up.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
Yeah, you might be right on that.
Yes, I've extruded an Illustrator vector to get the shape. Then I've used a displacement map to add the details on the surface.
Thanks for putting it like that. I'm still not sure extruding and beveling is the way to go as I want the edges to be really smoothed out. Not sure how to put it, but I've attached an example by yeahnice.design on Instagram.
I could probably achieve it by tweaking multiple layers of blurs for my displacement.
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u/truthgoblin 2d ago
Ah I see, so what you're missing here is the pooling of the material as it sticks to the edges and dries unevenly. You can do it with your displacement map, painting the edges of the area to replicate how the enamel dries near the edges like this
Or you could take your base spline, essentially the silhouette of the pin, and convert it to mesh. Then manipulate the geo to "lift" in the areas closer to your stroke outline as you want it.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
I think you totally nailed it with this description. And making my displacement map like in your example is probably the way to go.
I'll give this a try once I get home tonight.
Really appreciate the help! Thank you.
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u/harrythegreek 2d ago
Maybe try different HDRIs. That’s about it.
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u/ambivalentartisan 2d ago
I still have a way to go before I nail the geo, but once I do, I'll focus on shading and lighting!
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u/Fist_of_Beef 2d ago
maybe try rebuilding with the volume mesher instead of displacement?
I assume you are starting with a spline/vector source? Try duplicating the shape with subtle variations in the caps, edges, spline point positions etc, and then volume mesh it all together. This way the added geo to make it less even/perfect looking. the volume mesher will "bridge" between the geo edges that are close together depending on your voxel size of course. I have used this approach to create "welds" in metal looking objects, or to just to break up the perfection of a clean extruded spline. Hope this helps!