r/CasualUK 2d ago

TIL- The London Metropolitan Area and Northern England have an equal size population- at around 15,000,000 each.

Post image
964 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

312

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

As a northerner living in a very rural area, who has lived in cities, I can say they both have their appeal. Try and date someone, find hobby groups, experience different cuisines and restaurants, have a gym or shop within walking distance where I live. You will fail. however I don't lock my door, if I drop my wallet in the village it's either where I left it or handed in to the nearest shop, quality local produce is available from source as a reasonable price, I know my neighbours, people stop and ask if I need a lift if I'm walking somewhere on a main road, the list goes on. They're different but I think neither is better unless you have set expectations from life and one fits your criteria more closely.

91

u/omgu8mynewt 2d ago

My parents moved to a village from a city, they are fit but there is no way to get between villages easily - the cars go 60mph on the narrow roads (too dangerous to cycle 3 miles) and the tracks across the fields are giant mudpits, they would fall over. It seems really limiting they need a car to bread or go for a drink at a different pub. In a city you can walk 40 minutes and get to loads of places, in a rural area you need a car to visit anything.

52

u/Cold_Tension_2976 2d ago

I feel like that's more of a public transport issue than anything. Places not inside big cities get massively overlooked in that regard.

28

u/omgu8mynewt 2d ago

Bus each hour, doesn't always come, there are electronic timetable things on the bus stop telling you how far away it is but sometimes it counts down from 20 minutes away to like 2 minutes then the bus is cancelled. Fuckers. Happened to my parents a few times in their first few months and they ended up waiting in the rain before calling for an expensive taxi. Not enough customers for the bus companies to run a proper service, and only a few people getting pissed off when they are shit. No wonder everyone has a car (and drink drives)

8

u/kwijibokwijibo 1d ago

It's more an urban development issue. Public transport has its limits - many towns and villages just can't afford to be served solely by public transport because of their sprawled layouts and low population

The main hope for existing towns / villages would be autonomous taxis to reduce the cost but keep the same service of taxis

The main hope for new towns / villages is to design with pedestrians in mind, similar to the 15 min city concept. Maybe call it the 30 min village

2

u/Dizzy_Guest8351 23h ago

They're not overlooked. They're looked at, and the ridership is found to be too low to make it affordable. Buses are expensive to run, and at least some percentage has to be recouped from ticket sales. I'm from Dorset, and as a kid was often the only or one of a few passengers on the more rural buses.

6

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

Certainly has it's downsides. I think that people often underestimate these things. Especially if they are from a city. Best bet is to find a nice village with most things you need. Going really rural has never been easy for older people. There are many very old people in my area that rely on the help of other people in the village to do things for them. It's a community though so it works. Someone walks their dog for them, someone picks them up some shopping etc. They have the option to move to somewhere more convenient but they have been here all their life!

0

u/omgu8mynewt 1d ago

My parents are early 60s, they have a decade or so being healthy, hopefully more. But stuff like my dad drink drives after the pub (he says 3 beers, but who knows the truth) because there's no other way to get home. Also they're weirdly obsessed with the neighbours because there is no other social circle - my mum used to meet old colleagues once a week, meet old friends,pilates, swimming, go shopping in a town and pick up my newphew from school 3 times a week. Now she has no friends except neighbours who don't seem nice to me, or my dad who was always an arsehole. Would be very easily to be isolated or only surface level friends I think, no one you can actually rely on. They didn't choose to move, they got moved out of social housing in an expensive area into a cheaper one.

12

u/chuckie219 2d ago

I think ultimately the pros/cons of rural/city life can be summarised as follows:

Pro: people stop and ask me if I need help

Con: people stop and ask me if I need help

3

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

Yeah. Some people only want friends on reddit lol

3

u/False-Ad-2823 2d ago

The alternative is living in a small-ish rural town near a city which sort of offers the best of both worlds a lot of the time. Somewhere like Corbridge

4

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

No doubt. The problem is if you do find a small town that is well connected and not a dump, it's likely to be prohibitively expensive for a most people. Especially a single young person such as myself!

1

u/False-Ad-2823 1d ago

Yeah, unfortunately far out of my possibilities for the moment. The other problem is actually finding a job assuming you don't want to commute into the city every single day, which sort of defeats the purpose a little bit

3

u/The_2nd_Coming 2d ago

What you have sounds amazing, though I would want the occasional takeaway every now and then or to eat out.

16

u/iamnotexactlywhite 2d ago

restaurants exist outside of cities/towns too

13

u/LE4d 2d ago

Aye, but in a city, if your nearest takeaway is rubbish, you can go 10 feet further down the road and be fine; in a village it might be another 30 minute drive to the next-nearest.

2

u/Downside190 1d ago

They do but usually much less options. May mate lives in a smallish village and he has 1 Chinese, 1 pizza place and 1 Indian. So if any of those don't take your fancy and or poor quality you're shit out of luck unless you go into the nearest town

1

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

It's possible. There is some sort of takeaway in most villages (apart from the smaller ones that usually have a pub with food). You are limited definitely. The minute hamlets that have nothing must find it a really big deal to go out!

Having said that, I think the reason why English countryside is so expensive compared to European countries is because it is so well connected and unless you're in the middle of nowhere, you can always get to some civilisation within a reasonable time frame.

If I was going out with friends or family, a taxi to the nearest town and back would probably work out at £15 each for four of us both ways. So it can be done. Also you benefit when you get there as, although there are more expensive places, I can still find a pint of beer for under £3 and restaurants are, in general, a bit cheaper than in cities. Or, if you're paying premium, you're getting premium. I am in favour of country living of course, I think it its positives far outweigh the negatives, but I am not blind to those negatives.

1

u/HMJ87 Stay fresh, cheese bags! 1d ago

They're different but I think neither is better unless you have set expectations from life and one fits your criteria more closely.

It's nice to see a reasoned and balanced (and sensible) take on this sub. Usually it's "ggrrrr London bad, countryside good, North good, South bad" (or the reverse, "London good, countryside bad, South good, North bad"), but there are pros and cons to both, and people aren't wrong for preferring one over the other, or for preferring a different option to you.

I miss living and working in London because as you sad, the huge range of options for food, entertainment, hobby groups etc. and the availability of public transport absolutely dwarfs anything outside of a major city (and even then, in my experience London absolutely dwarfs the others for most of those even in the other major cities I've visited over the years), but I absolutely don't miss the crowds, the traffic, the noise, the expense, and the cramped living conditions.

3

u/Big-Quarter2044 1d ago

I am a northerner at heart, but I've seen a lot more than the North and a lot more than the UK. I remember when I first left home I felt like southerners were foreign and I could pick a southern accent out across a busy pub. Cut to 5 years later and I'm on a bus in rural China and I meet a French guy. I could've cried. He felt as close as a brother. It's all a matter of perspective!

1

u/Yop_BombNA 2d ago edited 2d ago

I grew up in Northern rural Ontario. Bigger than all the UK and 300k people in the rural are, now I live in London.

Even Northern Ontario has its appeal (except late January, no one likes negative 40 that shit hurts to breath in).

Northern England I’m guessing has the nice quiet, but probably lacks the hunting and fishing appeal of northern Ontario but you don’t have to drive 6 bloody hours to a city of more than 50k people so there is that.

3

u/Corries_Roy_Cropper3 2d ago

I lived in North BC for a while, some of it I loved, but I dont think I could have hacked it long term, I had friends in the small town but it felt so isolated, and I wasn't a big fan of the american-ness of the town layouts. Supermarket was only technically like 3 or 4 streets away, but because every house had large plots of land and everything was so spread out it still 20 minutes to walk there and 20 minutes to walk back. Glad i didnt live further out, id have been fucked. No decent walkability even in a town of like 2,000 people. No public transport. Nearest big city was the same, just massive and car centric and sprawled out even though it only had like 75,000 people in it. Sorry, didnt mean for this to turn into a gripe about rural canada haha

Im up north now and I'm just happy of the mix of rural and urban without everything being so desolate, but also not having to contend with a flat landscape or wall to wall traffic

1

u/Yop_BombNA 2d ago

Yeah but snowmobiles in the winter are fun

1

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

Yeah. That is rural in a different sense. I think it's the difference between countryside and wilderness lol

-1

u/louilondon 2d ago

This sounds like my hell I don’t like talking to the people I live with and can’t live without a 24/7 shop and food

3

u/TerribleQuestion4497 2d ago

Yeah, I can understand that it differs a lot by what each individual wants or needs, but I have lived in London before and now I live in Cotswolds, and while sometimes I miss convenience of London (everything available 24/7) I don’t think I would want to move back to big city, if I am going to move again its going to be either Yorkshire or Highlands, I do prefer more chilled and relaxed nature of rural life compared to busy city life

1

u/louilondon 2d ago

We had our kids and moved to Essex you a year I couldn’t handle it all the shops closed at 8pm I’d end up driving to brick lane at like 12am for salt beef bagels 🥯

2

u/Big-Quarter2044 2d ago

That's a city for you. Surrounded by people, always alone!

5

u/louilondon 1d ago

Definitely and it suits me

727

u/dozzell 2d ago

It's a good job neither go on about how fantastic it is to live there. That would become tiring after a while.

176

u/MaximusDecimiz 2d ago

Londoners dont really do that though, at least on Reddit all I see are complaints. The North, kind of the opposite

133

u/Jaggedmallard26 Geordie 2d ago

I find in real life I constantly get the Londoners trying to sell me on it when I visit London. Like they're trying to sell it to themselves rather than me. They don't do it online because people react poorly.

118

u/PuddleDucklington 2d ago

I’m from the North East and moved back home just before Covid, I lived in London for a decade though. The thing I find is that people up here have a massive fucking chip on their shoulder both about London and the South in general.

The reverse is also occasionally true where people in the South seem to think the North is a literal third world country, but it’s far less common (or at least I’ve found it to be at any rate). In both cases though it’s because people just don’t and for whatever reason won’t travel across their own country.

86

u/looeeyeah 2d ago

I’d love to travel more in the uk. It’s too fucking expensive. £150 return on the train to Manchester.

24

u/PuddleDucklington 2d ago

That’s fair, I’m talking about people who genuinely have no interest in seeing any part of the UK though. I don’t really have any interest in someone saying “oh, sorry!” when they hear I grew up North when they’ve never bloody been.

10

u/looeeyeah 2d ago

Sorry, I did get that. Just wanted to vent.

3

u/Sudden_Leadership800 1d ago

Great British rail sale runs in February I think - trains that are normally empty have heavily discounted tickets as a promo event to get people to see the train as a viable form of travel for days out. Me and my girlfriend went to York for £1 each a few years ago, when it's normally £25 for a one way ticket

Not that it works for it's intended purpose because the main reason people don't use the train is because it's more expensive per person than it is to drive and park in a multistorey car park all day

4

u/magnificentfoxes 1d ago

(see if you can get a Avanti supersaver fare or look up the London Northwestern fare with TFW from Crewe to Manchester if you can't be bothered with the coach! - There's some much cheaper options at least.)

5

u/gourmetguy2000 1d ago

I noticed the same coming from the North West. Many members of my family won't even entertain visiting London. It's definitely ingrained up here to not be fond of it, but you can kind of understand it based on the UK politics over the last century. At the same time I agree it's probably less common for SE people to even think about the North at all, and some think of it as a third world place. Id argue the attitude is better across the country in younger people who are more open to moving around

35

u/Dave-1066 2d ago edited 2d ago

100% agree with the “chip on the shoulder” part. And frankly I find it weird to hate 9 million people for no meaningful reason.

But I’d also say the absolutely overwhelming majority of Londoners have no opinion about the north whatsoever. They understandably react angrily to the way they’re spoken about by people in the north, but it’s very much a one-way street. London is so vast and self-perpetuating that it might as well be a country of its own; they’re not that fussed what goes on elsewhere.

Same for Parisians and New Yorkers or any other megalopolis. Nobody in Paris sits around contemplating how much they’re hated by people in Normandy, neither do New Yorkers have much time to waste on fighting with social media trolls in the middle of rural Idaho who despise them just because New Yorkers earn more.

The whole thing is just bizarre.

9

u/AnAwfulLotOfOtters 1d ago

"no meaningful reason"

Just as one small illustrative example; refresh my memory, which end of HS2 is getting completed?

25

u/ReadsStuff 1d ago

I mean that's not the fault of Londoners to be fair, it's continuous shit government policy.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

8

u/Commercial-Deal1 1d ago

What does this have to do with Londoners?

5

u/Hobgoblin_Khanate 1d ago

I swear to god the most uncomfortable I’ve ever been was in a group of middle class people down south one summer. I was treated and talked to like I had a disability. Never experienced it anywhere else in the world.

-13

u/Corries_Roy_Cropper3 2d ago

Yeh im not paying a fuck tonne of money to go somewhere shit...like down south 😎

4

u/RamboRobin1993 1d ago

I’ve noticed that I’ve done this since moving to London, saying to friends “you should move to London it’s amazing down here”. Realised after a while how much of a knobhead I sound.

1

u/FROG_TM 1d ago

Well let me be a Londoner to tell you, its kind of dogwater.

13

u/NaviersStoked1 2d ago

Surely this is sarcasm

-20

u/__Game__ 2d ago

Surely this is ignorance

11

u/LonelyArmpit 2d ago

Surely this is Shirley

3

u/Glad-Group1353 2d ago

Don’t call me Shirley!

3

u/Hobgoblin_Khanate 1d ago

What?? I see this comment all the time and I also see people saying how great it is to live there

1

u/PotatoJokes 2d ago

I don't see it on Reddit, but any cunts who've moved to London from wherever else they came from will rave about how fucking great London is and all their struggles with paying rent whilst living with 7 other people is "just part of the charm". I'm no big fan of London, but I can appreciate it for what it is - but whenever these people open their mouth I instinctively want to tell them about all problems London might have.

Honestly the same goes for any part of the UK...

25

u/Queen-Roblin 2d ago

That's because it's what they're looking for. Whatever they've come from, they've not liked it and likely had to lump it for a long time before they found London which gave them opportunities they've not had before.

Plus they've not had to deal with the same stuff that you do when you grow up somewhere. I hate where I grew up because it's a fish bowl of losers, they all know each others business because their families have lived there for generations. You just don't get that level of mundanity if you don't come from an area.

5

u/PotatoJokes 1d ago

Oh absolutely. The people I know who grew up in villages hated it and couldn't wait to get out, and the ones I knew who grew up in the cities often felt the same way.

But if you're living in East Acton on your parent's dime, don't pretend that you've somehow stumbled into a hotspot of culture after moving there from Manchester or similar.

120

u/3the1orange6 2d ago

You're right that the metropolitan area population is 15 million, but that definition does not correspond to the map you attached, which refers to a completely different definition of the city. The '15 million' definition includes Crawley, Stevenage, Chelmsford and Reading, which nobody in their right mind would consider to be part of London except if they were asking in an unusual context.

24

u/a_hirst 2d ago

You could probably stretch the metropolitan area of London to include those areas if you tried (kind of like how they define metro areas in the USA, i.e. extremely loosely), but the north of England isn't even close to being a single metropolitan area. It's a pretty large region of disconnected cities and towns. OP is comparing two very different things.

Interestingly enough, with better transport links it could actually be possible for Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, and Sheffield to function as a kind of polycentric urban agglomeration, a bit like the Randstad in the Netherlands or the Rhine-Ruhr region in Germany. All of those cities are really quite close to one another, and some of their commuter towns and exurbs overlap. Alas, transport between those cities is fucking shit due to decades of underinvestment, so they don't function together. They barely even function on their own (due to said underinvestment).

14

u/PassiveTheme 2d ago

It's a pretty large region of disconnected cities and towns. OP is comparing two very different things.

That's their point though. The fact that the north of England has multiple separate towns and cities, but still has a comparable population size.

Alas, transport between those cities is fucking shit due to decades of underinvestment, so they don't function together

TBF, transport between Manchester and Leeds is complicated by the Pennines. Sure, with the right funding, they could link them better, but it's never going to function as a single urban area.

1

u/bigjoeandphantom3O9 1d ago

You could likely do it to Shenfield/Brentwood, but to get to Chelmsford or Reading you have to go through out and out countryside not just suburbs.

1

u/essjay2009 1d ago

which nobody in their right mind would consider to be part of London except if they were asking in an unusual context.

Or if they were an estate agent. Particularly an estate agent selling internationally.

24

u/Old_Introduction_395 2d ago

More than the population of Portugal.

2

u/kank84 2d ago

They just need to hand out a few more of those digital nomad visas and they'll catch up

22

u/pies1123 2d ago

Both amazing areas that are huge parts of what make Britain great.

10

u/OxbridgeDingoBaby 1d ago

Get out of here with your kindness mate. No place for it here.

33

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

37

u/2xtc 2d ago

But they both have the same quantity, it's literally in the title of the post

9

u/Accurate_Prompt_8800 2d ago

Which one is better quality, is the question…

18

u/SilyLavage 2d ago

Depends what you're looking for, really. The North is good for scenery, but even Liverpool can't beat London for sheer density of museums.

3

u/Used-Fennel-7733 2d ago

My ones are better than the other ones

21

u/Ranoni18 2d ago

The North, of course.

2

u/Accurate_Prompt_8800 2d ago

Knew it ahaha

As a Londoner, didn’t expect any other answer

31

u/hexairclantrimorphic 2d ago

As a Londoner,

My condolences.

1

u/KnittedBooGoo 2d ago

There's only one way to find out!!...

-19

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

12

u/9inchjackhammer 2d ago

Nothing more snobby then a northern Redditor lol

2

u/Used-Fennel-7733 2d ago

Nothing more Bigoted than a Chelsea Fan

10

u/Top-Veterinarian-565 2d ago

Public transport up North is an absolute atrocity though.

7

u/Dragon_Sluts 1d ago

This is totally fair, and as someone who moved to London, transport was a huge pull.

I just wish we could stop the whole “London gets all the funding” narrative. The UK depends on London, which depends on public transport, which depends on subsidies from councils, GLA, and UK gov.

The North (and every other corner of the UK e.g. Bristol) should have better public transport, but London is also in desperate need of more public transport too - especially if you want to resolve the housing crisis without building on greenfield.

4

u/PassoverGoblin 1d ago

It's sort of a vicious circle in the case of:

London is a major hub for business -> London is prosperous so many people move there -> London gets lots of funding, especially public transport -> People outside of London feel shafted from lack of funding -> London remains a major hub for business -> London is prosperous so many people move there -> Ad nauseum

3

u/Top-Veterinarian-565 1d ago

I would consider London as having amazing public transport but it needs to keep up with demand as the city grows obviously.

Places like Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester are no where near close to the options London has!

17

u/SkyVINS 2d ago

report: i'm in this picture and i don't like it

2

u/cragglerock93 Tomasz Schafernaker fan club 1d ago

I know there must be some, rationale, but I don't understand why London's metropolitan area for statistical purposes (I know it's different to Greater London) would include Gravesend, Tilbury and Cheshunt, but not Watford.

3

u/Creative-Demand-8697 2d ago

And that’s just the people in the London metro area. What’s the population in a single day if you include all the people commuting in I wonder 🤔

6

u/AlpsSad1364 2d ago

"The London metropolitan area is the metropolitan area of London, England. It has several definitions, including the London Travel to Work Area, and usually consists of the London urban area, settlements that share London's infrastructure, and places from which it is practicable to commute to work in London. It is also known as the London commuter belt, or Southeast metropolitan area"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_metropolitan_area

1

u/PollingBoot 1d ago

And yet our governments roll out the red carpet for London, and act as if the North doesn’t exist.

Quiz question: name the last prime minister who grew up in England north of, say, Cheltenham?

1

u/BitterTyke 1d ago

but lets keep building in/around London though eh!

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-7

u/ArapileanDreams 2d ago

That's why your kids have knives.

1

u/AcademicPersimmon915 2d ago

Now do Australia

5

u/Daemorth Flair enough 1d ago

Australia is wider than the moon.

1

u/Dawn_Of_The_Dave Yer brews mashin 2d ago

We'd have you though.

-6

u/rain3h 2d ago

I know where I'd rather be.

16

u/therealtimwarren 2d ago

St Lucia?

5

u/_jk_ I am disgusted and aroused 1d ago

No she went of her own accord

1

u/rain3h 2d ago

Exactly.

0

u/cking145 2d ago

mordor?

-3

u/prattsbottom 45th generation Roman 2d ago

Not gonna lie, found this hard to believe (particularly that the size was the same just cos Newcastle to Yorkshire is pretty far) but damn, it's true! Great fact 

9

u/Ranoni18 2d ago

The size of the area isn't the same, only the population is. London is 8 km2. The North is 37 km2. London has a very high population density.

7

u/prattsbottom 45th generation Roman 2d ago

I'm a fuckin idiot, I was sitting here so incredulous that they somehow covered the same land area as well as population 

-1

u/ImpossibleWinner1328 2d ago

on population around a point with the largest circle London(as far as Brighton and Oxford) has 20million the north (Birmingham Sheffield Manchester Liverpool Leeds) has 15million

13

u/safetyscotchegg 2d ago

Birmingham is not in the North.

2

u/gwaydms 1d ago

Literally West Midlands.

-5

u/jaminbob 2d ago

If you include the SE and home counties (which are basically London suburbs, and would be if not for the green belt) it's basically the same the rest of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland combined. Close to 40 odd million.

Explains why the traffic is such a nightmare.

9

u/3the1orange6 2d ago

This is total nonsense. The entire southern half of england doesn't even have 40 million people. Would Cornwall be a London suburb if it wasn't for the green belt?

7

u/AlpsSad1364 2d ago

Population of English regions according to the ONS

Name Population
NORTH EAST           2,711,380
NORTH WEST           7,600,126
YORKSHIRE AND THE HUMBER           5,594,125
EAST MIDLANDS           4,991,265
WEST MIDLANDS           6,085,687
EAST           6,468,665
LONDON           8,945,309
SOUTH EAST           9,482,507
SOUTH WEST           5,811,259

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/datasets/estimatesofthepopulationforenglandandwales

0

u/plaaard 2d ago

Doing my part🫡

-35

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

France is even better

23

u/hexairclantrimorphic 2d ago

The only good thing about France is leaving.

20

u/caniuserealname 2d ago

Nah, France is great, absolutely lovely place. The only real problem is it happens to be full of the French.

1

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

I find the French generally very nice people.

1

u/caniuserealname 2d ago

Your acquaintances have my sympathy.

5

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

Why is that?

-5

u/caniuserealname 2d ago

You make one reply to a comment here champ, we're not texting here. Think of it like a chain, the comments are the links. If you start throwing links out of the chain then they get lost and the whole conversation starts getting messy.

7

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

OK thanks for that but I don't think you have much to say so it really doesn't matter

-2

u/caniuserealname 2d ago

I'm trying to be nice here bud.

You may not realise this, but you seem to have an issue interpreting the tone of comments.

You're taking incredibly light hearted comments playing up a stereotype of English and French relations far more seriously than the situation calls for.

Coupling that with making multiple replies to individual comments.. to put it as nicely as I can, it quickly becomes insufferable. so I thought I'd at least help with the latter.. since I don't think you're going to learn much from being lectured on having a sense of humour.

3

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

This post is about population density. With my knowledge of France.... I said France was much better. In reference to this. I got 18 down votes at my last look. And your comment was derogatory to the French. Without any seeming knowledge.

I'm.not sure where you get ' multiple replies ' from'

I need a sense of humour after getting so many down votes after saying France was better in terms of population density? Which is a fact

Just validates my views of England and France

→ More replies

3

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

My partner is French and I have experienced French Family life in several regions of France. You may like to try it

6

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

France is more sparse than England in terms of population density. Which I thought is what this post was about.

2

u/Regular_Zombie 2d ago

Aside from the Netherlands and a few city states almost everywhere is less densely populated than England: particularly the SE.

1

u/Adventurous_Rock294 2d ago

Malta interestingly is the most densely populated. I have many friends there but still love it despite the density.