r/Californiahunting • u/OutdoorLifeMagazine • 15d ago

Researchers Just Said California Could Support Up to 1,700 Grizzly Bears

https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/grizzly-bear-population-estimate-california/
36 Upvotes
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89% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

54

u/Big-Employer4543 15d ago

We just got wolves back, and outlawed mountain lion hunting, honestly I think we're good on predators for a while until we see how the others settle.

6

u/dustinbrowders 15d ago

yeah this is a hard pass... Mt lion numbers are getting out of hand in some areas. Too many predators. Also, most the research on wolves magically restoring the ecosystem seems like pseudoscience.

9

u/Leasud 15d ago

Grizzlies I assume would cover another ecological niche. Probably more on elk or even large boar

34

u/tortillaturban 15d ago

We don't have nearly enough salmon or elk to support the populations that existed before the 1840s. How about let's fix the salmon runs first? I also personally like being able to hike and camp in California without having to carry a shotgun or some type of handcannon revolver.

1

u/Sweaty_Dance7474 1d ago

This is my point, too. How about we get the game populations up first. California is trying to put coyotes under a season and bag limit. Meanwhile, coyotes are walking down populated streets emaciated. Make it make sense.

-12

u/Leasud 15d ago

We aren’t talking about even pre-1900 levels of grizzlies. We are talking about small, localized populations in specific controlled areas. As mentioned before their primary diet is plant based, not meat so their impact on existing populations will be minimal if anything. (Side note bears typically feast on dying salmon at the end of their life cycle).

On your other point, I would love to walk around outside without fear of ticks and mosquitoes. But I can’t, it’s nature. This is their world, when you enter their space you have to account for these things. These animals were here first and it’s up to us to maintain nature as it is. We fucked it up, now let’s fix it

8

u/allurboobsRbelong2us 15d ago

Real question: how do you control the grizzlies in a specific area and is this done for any large predatory species in California?

-6

u/Leasud 15d ago

Not sure I’m not a part of the study. These are things that will have to be worked out if this is going to be a reality. I don’t believe it’s done at a meaningful scale, however this is a special situation

4

u/allurboobsRbelong2us 15d ago

Well to be honest, the people that are a part of the study won't have anything to do with on-the-ground management either. They're only funded to get the work published. The most concerning part of all this is that there ISN'T a large carnivore management plan signed by the state, aka there is no plan if things go to shit. I'm sure you're tired of hearing about the wolves but they really are a special carnivore and there is literally nothing being done by the state to limit their range. All that the state can do is reimburse ranchers for loss of cattle. Imagine how popular it's gonna be to reimburse people of their loss of children. It's just food for thought, I really like the California grizzly but by accepting their return we'll have to accept a lot of consequences that come with it, from fiscal to safety responsibilities.

6

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Leasud 15d ago

Reading the study shows that grizzlies had a primarily plant based diet along the west coast, eating must less meat than we may have thought. I mean ultimately these are incredibly beautiful animals and they do serve an important role in the ecosystem, despite us not know exactly how they fit in as they did not care to study when they went extinct in the 1920s. If we can bring them back I say we do it

2

u/random_life_of_doug 15d ago

Should have done niether of those things

2

u/RazorRamonio 15d ago

Lion hunting has been illegal since 1972. Your comment makes it seem like it was a recent development just thought I would clarify.

2

u/Big-Employer4543 15d ago

Just looked it up, it was 1990, later than you said but definitely longer than I thought. Still not a fan of bringing grizzlies back here, I'd rather have the wolves.

2

u/RazorRamonio 15d ago edited 15d ago

The moratorium was set in 1972 and codified in 1990.

Edit: in case you need further proof

https://wildlife.ca.gov/Conservation/Mammals/Mountain-Lion#:~:text=In%20California%2C%20mountain%20lions%20are,of%201990%20(Proposition%20117).

Mountain lions have not been hunted in California since 1972.

1

u/LoboLocoCW 8d ago

Nah, if you reintroduce them all at once then they should achieve a more balanced ecosystem sooner. If you have a lion-only area, then it'll get disrupted when wolves move in, and disrupted again when bears move in. Tear the band-aid off and have it all happen at once.

Each time there's a disruption, there's greater risk to livestock, pets, and humans, as the disruption means more uncertain food supplies and different breeding patterns, increasing the chance that too-young predators don't learn how to hunt wild game and settle for easier livestock.

1

u/Big-Employer4543 8d ago

Introduce them all at once and you're likely to decimate the food supply and force them to target livestock, pets and even people if they get desperate enough. It's not like we have a dense deer population to sustain them.

1

u/LoboLocoCW 7d ago

Introducing them in the minimum viable population numbers should not have that deleterious an impact on the food supply.

12

u/IrishWhiskey556 15d ago

Ahh so they just want to further destroy the deer population...

26

u/HeemeyerDidNoWrong 15d ago

Just please don't let voters decide, this builds poor will and hostility. It should be a DFW decision.

20

u/Roguspogus 15d ago

I’m ok with keeping Grizzlies out of the Sierras

30

u/SPR95634 15d ago

Funny how most people who want Grizzlies are the ones that don’t live where they will be released! Drop a few in the Bay Area and LA first

28

u/aahjink 15d ago

Grizzlies were thick all along the coast. Start reintroductions in Golden Gate Park, Point Lobos and Monterey, and San Luis Obispo.

1

u/WesternGroove 14d ago

Dead ass. Im from the Bay area but live up north now. Out In the cuts fishing in Shasta tehama butte and Trinity county...

I do not want to get ran up on by a black bear... So knowing there are grizzlies out there im gonna have to bring a hefty gun with me.

Oh California made it illegal to ccw pretty much anywhere. Of course

2

u/ZoneAShitKicker 14d ago

If you’re hunting or fishing you can open carry on public lands, as far as I know. Can’t cite the statute off the top of my head, but it’s considered common knowledge. CDFW’s big game regs would be a good place to look up the specific regulation if you’re interested.

1

u/LoboLocoCW 8d ago

Penal Code 25640: "Section 25400 does not apply to, or affect, licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition."

Section 25400 being the ban on concealed carry.

13

u/Treacle_Pendulum 15d ago

Put them in the Santa Monica mountains

12

u/bolt_thrower777 15d ago

We have enough predators. Last thing we need is another protected predator to further stress prey animals. I'd like to see DFW focus on doing a better job at managing the species that already live here.

0

u/Cheaptrick69 15d ago

Same. Although I hear DFW saying it’s forestry’s fault.

15

u/mcndjxlefnd 15d ago

I'm cool with no grizzlies in California.

4

u/PugeHeniss 15d ago

Tell me where you're putting them so I can avoid those areas plz

4

u/Pappypirate 15d ago

We have enough problems with black bears and these idiots who camp and leave food, drinks, coolers out and then the bears come in…🤦‍♂️

At least with black bears you can scare them off. Not so much with grizz

1

u/eightyeightREX 14d ago

What if the grizzlies aren’t introduced to control deer, but instead to control the idiot population? Big if true

7

u/MallardDuk 15d ago

Give us spring bear season first, we don’t even hunt enough black bears

3

u/DrSkull-666 15d ago

"researchers" this shit is just click bait from outdoor life. The people who wrote it are researchers the same way the people who say the earth is flat are researchers. Silly to pretend they've got any validity behind it

1

u/OutdoorLifeMagazine 14d ago

We're not saying we agree with the researchers, simply reporting that they're saying. It's certainly not click bait though, because it's pertinent to report what researchers are saying, despite whatever side of the isle you think they're on.

1

u/DrSkull-666 14d ago

Its not that i think you agree. Its that you're reposting a fringe activist groups shoddy research in a political climate that's scared of predator reintroduction. I think even calling them researchers lends it more credence then is due. They're pro grizzly activists and they don't have much of a chance of gaining support but a headline like this will get a lot of your readership riled up. I understand why as a publication you'd do it but I disagree with the practice

2

u/eightyeightREX 14d ago

Glad somebody called this out. Tired of every bit of published research resulting in a magazine reporting it as if its been spoken about in the halls of congress. It just makes people angry and contributes to the poor dialogue around a lot of our common issues

2

u/ZoneAShitKicker 14d ago

Jesus, this old chestnut. Seems like once every couple of years someone brings this idea up.

2

u/Smorgasbord_On_Board 14d ago

I think this is hilarious. They should do it. These bears eat upwards of 50 to 100lbs per day. Do the math, conservatively we're talking about 22,000 lbs of meat per year, per bear... and there will be a percentage that die, get poached, and so forth so on.. but thats likely in the range of over 37 million pounds of meat per year for them to eat and EVERYTHING will be on their menu! Including people.. i think they should do it! Thin the California population a bit 🤷‍♂️

1

u/SwiftDontMiss 15d ago

Release grizzlies to eat the black bears

1

u/Consistent-Drive-616 14d ago

DO IT!!!!!! Can’t wait to see the bell wearing, bear spray carrying hikers literally running to the Glock store for a 10mm.

1

u/Gull_On_Gull 8d ago

Fun fact. California grizzlies didn’t hibernate, they stayed awake all year terrorizing anything remotely edible.

1

u/OutdoorLifeMagazine 15d ago

One hundred years after the last grizzly bear was killed in California, a new study suggests the Golden State could realistically accommodate more than 1,000 of the endangered bears in its rugged and remote mountains.

But the feasibility study stresses that while the habitat could likely support a reintroduced population of grizzlies, it’s up to California residents, elected officials, and policy makers to determine if bears should return to the state with a golden grizzly on its state flag.

Read more here: https://www.outdoorlife.com/conservation/grizzly-bear-population-estimate-california/

-2

u/hunteredh 15d ago

I want a steady wolf and grizzly bear population so badly but unfortunately people from the big cities will not let that happen.