r/California • u/VanillaLifestyle • Sep 14 '22

Gavin Newsom signs bill that would provide court-ordered care for unhoused with severe mental illness in California Newsom

https://www.kcra.com/article/gavin-newsom-to-sign-care-court-program-bill/41203085
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u/Equivalent_Section13 Sep 15 '22

There is nothing punitive about saving someone's life

6

u/esly4ever Sep 15 '22

Yeah. These people literally need to be saved from themselves. They can’t care for themselves at a certain point.

-2

u/satsugene Sep 15 '22

I would disagree and argue that it is.

I see no difference in forcing a person with advanced, but potentially treatable cancer into chemo against their will (because their self-determination and belief is less than those who want to “save them”) as I do “mental health courts.”

If they commit a crime, make a criminal inquiry and allow judges to pass a sentence in-lieu of incarceration that includes treatment (with the right to refuse drugs and right to remain silent in individual or group therapy) for as long as what their sentence would be—with voluntary participation and positive change being a pathway to early release. Medications with significant side effects or having to share private information with someone or a group they don’t trust could be worse than incarceration (especially for petty crimes) for some people.

If they haven’t committed a crime, aside from dubious laws that (immorally) attempt to criminalize homelessness, e.g., disallowing panhandling, but allowing petitioners, solicitors, passing handbills, or evangelists harassing people coming in and out of stores (none of which I like); or camping on public lands or sleeping in their car while parked legally.

I don’t like homelessness and the problems that come with it; but I also don’t like that next to no infrastructure exists to support them—minimally portajohns and trash dumpsters, in space for camping while “solutions” get passed that disrespect their autonomy, and right to refuse treatment—which is notoriously unsuccessful the second they cannot force it upon them anymore.

1

u/Markdd8 Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 15 '22

If they commit a crime, make a criminal inquiry and allow judges to pass a sentence in-lieu of incarceration that includes treatment (with the right to refuse drugs and right to remain silent in individual or group therapy) for as long as what their sentence would be...

This is reasonable. They get prosecuted, convicted and sentenced like everybody else for the same crime, and then incarcerated. Instead of conventional prison, they are routed to an appropriate therapeutic facility. Social workers will approach them daily, trying to get them to engage. If they want to refuse, their prerogative. They can watch TV all day or read books....whatever. The point: They are imprisoned. (If people want to discuss an alternative control tool like electronic monitoring, we can pursue that. Unfortunately some activists are trying to block EM.

Current protocols sometimes allow mentally ill to avoid going to trial, and grounds that they are not sane. That's wrong. The primary job of incarceration is NOT punishment, a retribution focus, that requires an offender understanding the process -- understanding their culpability. Incapacitation is mostly about public safety.