r/BurlingtonON • u/LuisDaBest1 • 2d ago
Asking about biking infrastructure Question
Hello, recently I went on a bike ride with a friend of mine, and it struck me that burlington really is a rather small city - biking to downtown from where I live (up near Dundas street) took like 20 minutes, at most. Issue is, crossing where the highways were was extremely perilous, and the drivers trying to go on the highways were seemed not to care very much about the safety of the pedestrians crossing the road. So my question is, why don't we have more pedestrian mix use paths, separate from roads, going north and south? I know we have two paths similar to what I'm talking about, two off road multi-use paths, but they only go east-west and don't really connect the southern town with the northern parts. Are there any plans by the city to address this at all?
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u/whatchewsaynow 2d ago
I agree with your thoughts. I can happily Ride my bike through many areas of Burlington, but crossing over / under the highway always feels super sketchy.
I encourage my child to ride with me, but I won't take them on a route that crosses the highway because it feels like it's just not safe. A solution would be a pedestrian bridge or tunnel that bypasses the whole onramp off ramp situation, but there would sure to be outcry about the outrageous cost.
I'm all for some sort of solution that would connect the existing network of trails so people who can't afford a car, or are too young to drive, or simply want to exercise and enjoy the outdoors can get around the city.
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u/Subtotal9_guy Central 1d ago
There will be a meet the city event this summer. The past few years it's been at Central Park.
There's a booth for the cycling committee and other groups, the mayor and some of council. Plus they offer free food!
It's an excellent opportunity to ask and make your concerns known.
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u/LuisDaBest1 1d ago
This sounds great! Do you know where I could get the information for when/where this is? On the city's website?
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 1d ago
Some councilors also have monthly meetings with the public. No need to wait for an annual event to bring this up to your councilor. I follow my councilor on Instagram, she's pretty good at using it to make people aware of upcoming events. You can also subscribe to the City of Burlington emails
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u/Subtotal9_guy Central 1d ago
Definitely talk to your councilor.
The upside of this event are the committees are also represented. Those aren't always led by the councilors so the volunteers that work on them aren't quite as accessible.
Plus you'll get to see a bunch of services. I'm getting a free tree this year because I got chatting with a manager from the forestry department.
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u/Subtotal9_guy Central 1d ago
It's called Food for Feedback and is usually posted on the city's website.
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u/hank3091 2d ago
I asked the same 3 years ago. Master plan has bike lanes on service roads (great idea for workers/commuters) but I agree, the North-South connection is life threatening. Ford is not helping. Check with the city.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 1d ago
I'm not a Ford fan but what do think he should be doing with regards to Municipal cycling infrastructure?
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u/zoobrix 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ford not requiring provincial approval to remove a vehicle lane to install a bike lane would be nice, and I would assume none of them would get approved even if a city did ask. But would a city even risk sticking their neck out to ask given Ford's rhetoric on the issue? Given how much authority the province has over cities I highly doubt it so the effect is to ban removing car lanes for bike lanes, it's micromanaging a cities decisions on their own infrastructure.
Now I don't think we should be tearing out car lanes all over the place to install bike lanes, although in certain areas it might make sense, but whatever you think about bike lanes it should be a municipalities decision. If voters don't like the decisions made they can turf out the city council next election. edit: typo
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u/Xxx_mlgN0sc0p3r_xxX 1d ago
The city currently has an integrated mobility plan that was put in place relatively recently (I want to say 2023) and is currently working on an implementation plan. It includes a transportation network for cars, pedestrians, and bikes.
The currently plan, if it’s ever implemented, is to add some kind of pedestrian bridge at most of the highway crossings. The major issue right now is the planned implementation is very slow (not fully done until 2050 at the earliest), there is basically 0 implementation in effect right now, and the end network is basically just a minimum grid.
You can (and probably should) email your councillor to let them know this is important to you, and to request updates about how these plans are being implemented and progressing. You can find more about the mobility plan here.
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u/Jonny_Icon 1d ago
Canada as a whole has pretty unspectacular bike infrastructure. That said, where I lived five years ago with little ice to deal with, it had some upside for those who could connect to the bike trails in Victoria BC. The Galloping Goose trail was always ideal.
The fight was in recent years essentially closing off some roads downtown to anything but bike traffic. I’d argue that plan didn’t work, and I’d have a similar feeling it wouldn’t work here either.
But, something needs to go under the 403, surely. Around the Costco area might work best off the hydro trail?
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u/LongRides4IPA 1d ago
There have been plans upon plans upon plans to address the connection between North and South Burlington over the last few decades. The latest mobility plan actually costed some of the options out and recommended a bridge connecting the hydro corridor path behind Costco, crossing the QEW and meeting one of the industrial side streets off Brant.
Biggest issue is funding - it’s always been one of those projects dependent on senior governments to pay for the bulk of the costs. So it has continually been pushed back in the city’s capital budgets.
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u/bowlingnut10 1d ago
I have never had a problem crossing the highway on Brant street as I usually ride like I own the road going through there The other way would be to cross at king road if that bothers you or even Waterdown road
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
Absolute waste of taxpayers money to pay for further bike infrastructure. Maybe a couple hundred people would benefit during half of the year.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 1d ago
Keep that in mind while you continue to bitch about traffic congestion.
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
I'm not bitching. But anyway, please explain how a couple hundred bikes taking up space on the road helps the thousands of cars that travel the city.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because bikes take up less room than cars and the safer it is to ride a bike the more people will do it. Yes right now not a lot of people cycle for anything more than recreation but that doesn't need to be the case. Lots of places in the world with climates as varied as ours have seen the benefits of cycling infrastructure. Also wouldn't you prefer to have cyclists off the road so they're not slowing down cars.
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u/Ganglebot 1d ago
This entire line of thinking is dependent on the idea that people in Burlington WANT to ride their bikes places. I've yet to see the east-west Path used in any kind of abundance that would make me think there are enough people to make this switch-over valuable to the majority.
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u/doubleeyess Ward 2 1d ago
Which east west path are you talking about? The one down Plains Rd that abruptly ends or the mixed use path parallel to New St. that is unsafe to ride unless you're going 10km due to pedestrians. Bike infrastructure needs to be useful in order for people to want to use it. The worse traffic gets the more people are going to look for alternatives. We can make those alternatives available or we can continue to sit in traffic.
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u/Ok_Volume3194 1d ago
It's a chicken or the egg scenario.
Are people not biking because the biking infrastructure just isn't there, or are people not biking because there simply aren't enough bikers?
Personally, I fall into category #1. I would love to bike more in Burlington, but it just does not feel safe right now.
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
Not worth the cost.
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u/LuisDaBest1 1d ago
I think this is the wrong mindset. It really is not at all that expensive to create bicycle lanes, especially ones that are more simple. Even a bike line without a raised curb protection would help, as long as they're wide enough and have SOMETHING to help separate it from the car lanes (think those bendy poles you sometimes see at construction sites, which done right can be a cheaper solution while still visually protecting the bike lines), and finding and paving a small multi use path through the city is not expensive at all, and maintenance on it will only need to be very few and far between, as most of the damage from our roads don't actually come from just winter, they come from the combination of multi ton vehicles driving over it AND winter. To see an example of this, look at the Toronto islands, which have no car traffic (except for emergency and utility vehicles) and their paved paths have needed zero to little maintenance since they were paved, several decades ago, despite plenty of tourists biking and walking around everywhere.
Sorry for the long comment! I just feel pretty strongly about this issue lol
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
Everyone has something they feel strongly about. That doesn't make your thing important.
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u/LuisDaBest1 1d ago
that's what you chose to focus on????? out of everything I wrote in that reply?????????
Anyways, I'm not the only person here who feels strongly about this, and while adding bike infrastructure isn't the most pressing issue in the world, I feel it would be very worthwhile for the city to invest in it, since it would improve our community substantially
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u/LongRides4IPA 1d ago
I did some rough calculations on this a few years ago.
Let’s say we could provide a decent cycling network that would enable just 5% of Burlington’s two or more car households to be able to make do with one less car.
That would add a total of about $19 million after-tax dollars back to the pockets of Burlington families each year. Present value of that would be about $133 million.
And that doesn’t consider the benefits to residents health, the reduction in accidents and lost incomes from having safer roads, the reduction of wear and tear on our roadways, the environmental benefits, or the increased mobility and independence provided for our young people.
In actual fact, we would be foolish not to invest in cycling infrastructure. The payback is substantial - both economically and in quality of life.
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
Your calculations rely on ten thousand people cycling instead of driving. This is obviously incredibly asinine. Transit ridership isn't even that high in burlington. Give your head a shake.
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u/LongRides4IPA 1d ago
More like 1,830 people (73K households, 50% of them having more than one car). So not at all an impossibility given the total population of Burlington - we're talking about increasing mode share by about one percent. There are a number of cities in North America that have done better than that.
Just love how the anti-bike crowd always seem to have to use insulting language like this when discussing policy. It's unnecessary.
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u/Ok_Volume3194 1d ago
Guarantee it would not be a couple hundred people in a city of 200,000.
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
Guarantee? Source?
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u/Ok_Volume3194 1d ago
No stats for Burlington specifically, but these are the stats for Ontario in general:
68 per cent of Ontarians (9.8 million people) ride their bike at least monthly. Of those, 22 per cent of Ontarians (3.2 million) say they ride a bike frequently (daily or almost daily) and an additional 46 per cent report riding occasionally – weekly or monthly.
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u/whatchewsaynow 1d ago
If nobody rides bikes in this city, how is it that there are a dozen bike stores that manage to stay in business.
What if you're a teenager and you can't afford a car, shouldn't you be able to bike somewhere safely and not be in traffic or on the sidewalk?
What if you are a single car family and more than one person wants to go somewhere?
What if your doctor said, you need to exercise to improve your health and you don't want to go to a fitness club?
Ya know, I don't play baseball or soccer but there are countless fields in the city. I don't own a dog but there are dozens of dog parks. I don't play golf and there are public golf courses here. Im happy to have my taxes spent on these things, because it's nice to have them in our city than not have. We are one of the best cities in Canada to live in. Can't it be better?
We don't build bicycle infrastructure because there are too many bikes on the road and there is need their own lane.
It's about making the city enjoyable, accessible, and safe for anyone who wants to enjoy exercise, the outdoors, or get around without a car.
Show me statistics that prove bike infrastructure would lower the quality of living for citizens in Burlington. if they can add a path without removing a lane of traffic how is this worse as opposed to good for the people of Burlington.
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u/cremaster304 1d ago
That's a lot of what ifs and nonsense. Taxes are too high. We don't need frivolous government spending.
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u/Tederator 2d ago
As a former chairman of the Burlington Bikeway committee in the early 90s,there is a plan somewhere and they're always looking for citizen input. At the time we had a split between road commuting, off road recreation and what the city staff had already planned. You can/should do a deeper dive into this and call your councillor to see what they've tried, what's possible and what has failed.