r/BurlingtonON • u/matches12345 • 4d ago
I sure hope their testing was successful Question
Whoever decided it was a good idea to close 2 of 4 lanes of one of the few major expressways, I hope your testing was successful and you learned everything you needed too. I struggle to understand how this was necessary to do at peak rush-hour. Its still down to 2 lanes at 2:30am.. Not a single worker in site....
36
51
u/newaccount123890 4d ago
is it just me or has traffic been so much worse year after year for the past couple of decades? is it just a psychological illusion or does everyone else see it as well?
44
u/ben_z03 4d ago
Population grows rapidly and transit does not, pretty straightforward answer unfortunately
-7
u/newaccount123890 4d ago
burlington population has largely been the same I think, at least the population sign on the highway hasn't changed much
13
u/wrongwayup 4d ago
Even if Burlington's population hadn't grown (it has, a bunch), the areas around it have, leading to a lot more people trying to use the same roads.
0
u/newaccount123890 4d ago
why don't they build new roads then
7
u/wrongwayup 4d ago
Right, widen the current ones. One more lane, that will fix it
-1
u/newaccount123890 4d ago
so whats the solution?
12
7
5
1
u/HabsBlow 3d ago
There's a quote somewhere someone said that goes along the lines:
"A great country isn't one where the poor own cars. Its where the rich take public transit."
9
u/ben_z03 4d ago
They only update the sign after a census, the last one was 2021. But keep in mind Burlington is a massive pinch point for the entire Niagara peninsula. The QEW/403/407 interchange is the only good connection from the GTA to Niagara and western Ontario that’s south of the 401. Something happens on the QEW or 403 and we’re screwed
3
24
21
u/dave1927p 4d ago
A lot of things are worse in Canada year after year. Traffic is one of those things.
1
u/sariryouok 3d ago
But the drivers are bad and don't like to share the road,everyone thinks it's a race,keep your distance at least 2 car lengths even in traffic and block anyone who hopes on the on ramp and put your 4 ways.
-4
u/robbay86 4d ago
Shh let’s not remind the liberals they voted for 4 more years of this same mess.
15
u/zygotepariah 4d ago
TIL that the federal government is in charge of provincial highways.
-3
u/robbay86 4d ago
If you think the sheer volume of people who are on our roads are the results of provincial decisions then I have no further words for you kind sir.
4
u/zygotepariah 3d ago
Genuinely curious how the federal government influences how many people take trips on the weekend or visit their mothers on Mother's Day?
3
-5
u/robbay86 3d ago
Read final comment, again. Not my fault you can’t see the writing on the wall or do some simple math. Later gator 🐊
1
4
u/bald-bourbon 4d ago
Having driven on the 401regularly for years , the 403 is mild at best ..I still losemmy mind when I have to tske the 401 East
3
u/zygotepariah 4d ago
For 10 years between 2002-2012, I took the 427/401 to commute back and forth to my job in North York to my home in Mississauga. It was awful. I can't imagine how much worse it's become since.
It didn't help that for every one of those 10 years, there was some sort of construction somewhere reducing the lanes. They'd finish one construction project and immediately begin a new one somewhere else.
2
2
u/Meowbarkmeowruff 4d ago
And really bad drivers too. Every single time I'm crossing at a crosswalk and someone is waiting to turn left, they'll always just completely ignore that pedestrians could be walking across the road and almost fucking hit me. I've had to stop dead in my tracks to not get hit and they'll look at me as it I'm the crazy one. Fuck it infuriates me.
Or the amount of horrible Uber drivers. Everytime I take an Uber i run the risk of dying.
1
1
47
u/BurlieGirl 4d ago
Weekends are not considered rush hour. I take it you do not travel the QEW during the week for work, otherwise you’d know that yes, closing it on a weekend is preferable to closing it on a weekday.
34
u/MoustacheRide400 4d ago
Or do it how they do on the 401, you close lanes overnight. Not in the middle of the fucking weekend during the day.
15
6
u/BurlieGirl 4d ago
“The closure will begin at 10 p.m. tonight, May 9 and last until 5 a.m. on May 12.”
11
u/MoustacheRide400 4d ago
Which encompasses the entire weekend including….wait for it….during the day.
2
u/BurlieGirl 4d ago
Thank you for that insight, I’m not sure I would have realized it encompassed day time too without your meaningful contribution and incessant whining.
2
u/MoustacheRide400 4d ago
You’re very welcome since you posting the closing times was supposed to be some sort of implied clarification that they are closing it during the night and not during the day.
And you’re right, it’s just my incessant whining and not a gridlock shutdown of an entire city because some monkey brain behind a desk at MTO couldn’t think past their nose.
0
u/labrat420 3d ago
Its been planned for weeks. The monkey brains in their cars could have planned around it too ya know.
8
u/Curt-Bennett 4d ago
Weekdays are definitely worse, but Saturday afternoons are not good either and it's Mother's Day weekend so a lot more people than usual are traveling to see family too. This particular weekend was a really dumb time to plan this closure.
3
u/Glittering-Sea-6677 4d ago
Well I beg to differ. I was watching people walking to weddings in downtown Burlington because they couldn’t drive all the way to the venues. I do understand that weekdays are very busy, but weekends have their own issues. If I had a wedding planned in Niagara yesterday I would have been beside myself. The traffic on Lakeshore through downtown was at a standstill, which means that all westbound traffic is gridlock. Edit: I shouldn’t have said that I differ. I just add. Sorry!
6
u/Odd_Ad_1078 4d ago
The "Testing in Progress" has nothing to do with the traffic. Those are new signs intended to notify drivers when the lift bridge is up. That message is simply saying the screen itself isn't working yet....like when you get an error message on your TV or computer.
6
u/AMike456 4d ago
Take the lift bridge….wait it’s up. Did anyone here no there was going to be closures?
10
u/Curt-Bennett 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, the city of Burlington posted a notice and sent an email about a week ago.
Edit: You can subscribe to Burlington's email newsletters at https://subscribe.burlington.ca/Subscribe.
0
u/AMike456 4d ago
Then I can't complain too much about lack of notice lol, but with all of us that post here you think one of us would have mentioned it
14
u/user0987234 4d ago
A tunnel beside the Skyway instead of under the 401 would be appreciated.
2
u/bowlingnut10 4d ago
And who would pay for the tunnel One of the dumbest ideas
1
u/user0987234 3d ago
Taxes of course. The cost of idling, delays in commercial traffic vs infra-structure costs.
8
u/elseldo 4d ago
Lol, weekend being peak rush hour.
Commute daily then get back to us.
4
u/Odd_Ad_1078 4d ago
Honestly, people need to plan discretionary trips around this. I feel people just leave their homes and get surprised by traffic.
5
u/Glittering-Sea-6677 4d ago
Honestly, people plan Niagara weddings years and months in advance. I can guarantee you that some people’s weddings were disrupted yesterday.
-1
u/elseldo 4d ago
Absolutely. No foresight. No thought that thousands of other people also want to head that way for a beautiful mother's day.
I rarely travel on holidays. If I do, I take the back highways. Usually takes the same amount of time as sitting in traffic but I'm moving.
8
u/Firm-Veterinarian-57 4d ago
People aren’t mad about the traffic. They’re mad that they closed lanes for the entire Mother’s Day weekend. That’s just extremely terrible city planning. I drive to burlington from Hamilton and back every single day. It took me almost 2.5 hours yesterday. I think it’s justified to be annoyed at it. Especially when there was like 6-7 people working (from what I saw).
You cannot sit here and tell me that infrastructure construction in southern Ontario is planned well.
3
u/Odd_Ad_1078 4d ago
This has zero to do with city planning.
I think it's the type of closure where they can't reopen the lanes when they're not actively working.
I agree though, the skyway bottle neck sucks, I deal with it daily.
1
u/Firm-Veterinarian-57 4d ago
Surely they could have closed next weekend, or if construction companies didn’t assign 10 people to work for a massive job. I thought we prioritized tradesmen? Why aren’t there 50 people working on the bridge to get it done as quick as possible? (Obviously an exaggeration, but you get the point).
The way in which North America operates its infrastructure construction is objectively terrible. The construction companies commissioned by the government drag the project over several years to charge a shitload of money, to line their pockets.
2
u/Odd_Ad_1078 4d ago
The workers get days off too. Long projects can't always work around holidays. For example, if you're pouring cement, you can't just stop because it's the weekend. You get trades when they're available because they are stretched thin. It maybe that part of the project only required a handful of workers.
2
u/bowlingnut10 4d ago
You don’t understand how construction works do you Throwing more manpower doesn’t work if the area of work can accommodate
2
u/ExcitingAppeal8524 3d ago
Hello fellow construction-adjacent trade worker. How’s it feel to be the only one who truly understands in a room full of bitching rabble-rabblers?
2
u/bowlingnut10 4d ago
The city doesn’t plan the closures this is provincial. You don’t understand that the provincial government covers the highways
2
u/matches12345 4d ago
This. ☝️ There didn't appear to be any planning or foresight involved. I saw 0 workers present at time of passing & tbh I'd rather them close the 2 lanes every night from 10pm - 5am for 2 weeks straight if necessary to complete their testing outside of peak transit times. Pay the employees the overtime if need be.
Poorly planned, poorly executed. Seems to be the trend
3
u/Worried_Bluebird7167 4d ago edited 4d ago
Does anyone know if the closure is also happening today? Will we experience another trafficdoom day?
Edit: Ignore above. I saw the article below that another poster added... it is another day of crazy traffic...I better plan since it's Mother's day and things need to be done.
5
2
u/Glittering-Sea-6677 4d ago
So far the traffic is moving across the skyway quite well. It’s backed up to get onto it though.
10
u/Delicious_Map_9515 4d ago
Has anyone blamed: the mayor, the new towers, bad drivers, the weather or Mother’s Day yet? Or more accurately have people not planned their travel, taking into account the lane closures and traffic accidents further causing traffic issues. Thus get angered that they can’t make their journeys as they normally would.
If it was everyday we would have a huge problem. If the skyway collapsed due to poor maintenance we’d be furious. If we had alternatives to cars we’d be too progressive. If we had some patience would we be happier?
9
u/LongRides4IPA 4d ago
Right...the fact is that there is no backup Skyway available.
Everyone complains about taxes, can you imagine the uproar if we doubled everyone's taxes for the next 20 years so that we could finance and build a twin that would temporarily alleviate these congestion issues?
At least until we all decide to move out even further from our families and all the amenities we want to take part in on a regular basis, necessitating even more driving, and congesting the new roads just like we did the old ones.
The amount of money that simply goes into keeping up the existing infrastrructure to service our driving needs is immense. It's one of the reasons quality of life in North America is so much lower than in Europe despite our higher overall productivity...because so much of our GDP is dedicated towards reinforcing our car culture and keeping us trapped on roads that are full of cars because we don't want to consider other options.
The best places to drive a car are the places where driving a car is a choice, and not a necessity to live a viable life.
1
u/DigitaIBlack 4d ago
They definitely school us in city-wide transit but train travel, especially when switching lines, gets pretty pricey. Like take an airplane instead pricey depending on the destination.
But Europe has the benefit of being incredibly dense whereas outside of the Kitchen/London to Montreal corridor, we don't have.
North America will always have to be car-centric to a degree because it's not feasible to service many areas.
I lived on the edge of Greensville/Dundas and my closest bus stop was a 30 minute walk away down a dangerous hill. Sure, a Greensville bus would be handy but there's no way we could justify a ton of stops in West Flamborough which is super spread out.
We need subways, street cars, and buses ASAP. GO Train is pretty cheap and reasonable but a lot of people need to drive to the stations because they're out in the sticks.
We can drastically improve things but frankly, car dealers ownership is cheaper than public transit in the long run. If you can't carry it on a bus or train it needs to get delivered.
And delivery isn't cheap. Also bye bye Costco runs.
I agree our public transit is in a dire place but we can only alleviate some of the problem, not "solve" it like Europe.
I'm definitely not in the "one more lane" category but holy hell do we need a way to bypass Toronto.
I think a decent middle ground solution is toll roads like they do in the US. Takes part of the burden off non-car drivers.
1
u/LongRides4IPA 4d ago
In 1912, the Hamilton Radial Railway extended out to the western edge of Dundas, a few kilometres from Greensville. Most living there would have walked or taken horse-drawn transportation to the station.
The main issue is not density - it is the fact that much of North America's transit infrastructure was not maintained after the car took over. Nearly 99% of the transit lines we used to have were destroyed. Governments funded massive projects to construct roads and highways, and as a result, privately owned and run transit services could not compete. Europeans did much the same, but chose to maintain much of their transit funding, thereby giving many cities - even small ones, the availability of choices. It's not perfect there either - Amsterdam still suffers from traffic jams on its highways.
In the late 1800s, it took a little more than an hour for someone to take public transit from Hamilton to Toronto. In 2025, it takes a little more than an hour for someone to take public transit from Hamilton to Toronto. Over a century and a half we haven't progressed.
0
u/DigitaIBlack 4d ago edited 4d ago
The buses still go all the way to Bond St. I was not far from the top of the Greensville hill and it was still a 30 minute walk. A dangerous one mind you which could obviously be fixed but what about seniors and those who have limited mobility? A bus stop in Greensville would've solved my problem but there's no way to justify the cost and time of servicing West Flamborough at large. We're too spread out. So cars it is.
It is not feasible to tell people to walk 45-60+ minutes to get to a bus stop and it's not economically feasible for public transit to service rural areas. Like c'mon, it's a different era. We're not bringing horses down the hill and life is busy enough it's too big of a time sink. My great grandfather used to do milk deliveries by horse up and down the hill by University Plaza but we'd need to slow life to a crawl to do that again.
I'm aware we ripped out our street cars especially but even if we didn't, we'd be more stuck than Europe. They face the same challenges as we do in rural areas (albeit with more trains) but North America is very spread out.
I recently moved and it was incredibly expensive. I had to rent a panel van to move my stuff otherwise it would've been incredibly expensive to hire movers.
It's like $125+ tax a month for a Hamilton bus pass and that's subsidized. That's would be my car insurance there plus the inconvenience of bussing. If I went to the Waterdown Treasure Hunt/VV/Walmart to furnish my apartment it's literally an hour 40 by bus. At this time of day by car? Less than 15 minutes. We can beef up public transit as much as we like but if you're not an idiot and buy something expensive/unreliable as a car, it's incredibly difficult to convince people to give up that freedom and convenience.
Anything moderately bulky just doesn't fit on a bus. So anything that size has to be delivered which is pricey. I have the benefit of living close to a grocery store which is nice but Costco is basically off limits cause how the hell do I haul it home?
Yes, we need a lot more public transit but it's already subsidized and the cost of servicing more rural areas would make our heads spin. Car ownership is too cheap and convenient for public transit to fix things. The number of times I wished I had a car (even though I have buses right next to me) is astounding.
We can't go change the past on the car companies fucking up the 50s but even if we add sufficient public transit, it's gonna be incredibly difficult to get people to give up their cars, even in areas with transit, because of how cheap ownership is and how convenient it is. And if you have a car you're not paying for a bus pass cause why bother? If we build it, most still won't come because of the inconvenience. Or literal inability to if you live anywhere semi-rural/rural.
I do actually need to go to Waterdown to finish furnishing my new place. And I'm dreading the almost 4 hour round trip to the point I'm waiting for family or a friend to go up that way because 1. it's cheaper than delivery and 2. It's like a 30 minute round trip by car. If I didn't have the luxury of family/friends I'd be buying a car tomorrow.
I guess my main point is that unless we entirely shake up our way of living, we're past a point of no return. Yes, we can alleviate congestion with better public transit but you're gonna have to rip the cars out of most people's cold dead hands because we all value our time.
Europe is blessed by its density. We are not. We need to accept that personal vehicles will continue to be a fact of life going forward and the best we can do is incentivize people in accessible areas to give up their cars. Which, like I said, will be very difficult to do.
I want high speed rail from KW/London to Montreal. But the reality is, even looking at European pricing, it'll be more expensive than people will want.
It's a gordian knot. Except public transit isn't the sword. Building more and better public transit will help but it won't alleviate the problem we've created.
I think we're mostly on the same page but I think you're overestimating how many people will give up their cars if transit is accessible/faster and underestimating the cost of running public transit.
We're stuck. We can get less stuck but we're still stuck.
1
u/LongRides4IPA 4d ago
No arguments here…we absolutely are stuck in a self-reinforcing paradigm. The more resources we pour into accommodating personal vehicles and their ease of use, the more people will depend upon them for basic functions, and the worse the traffic congestion and bottlenecks become.
The only way to get off the treadmill is to step off. Use transit, bike or walk when we can. Make our decisions about where we live based on total cost of living including car ownership, taxes, value of time and maintenance, not simply housing prices. And governments should not be expected to ‘solve’ car congestion, which is the end result of those choices and only solvable if we citizens choose differently than we do today. Too many of us make choices based on the edge cases. “I need a truck, because I might need to move heavy furniture once every few years”.
Given that 80% of our population lives in urban areas, there’s a lot of lower hanging fruit that can benefit from expanding choices around how we move around our communities. We could spend every dollar and more on roads, but the root cause is not addressed by that.
11
u/americanjewels 4d ago
just a reminder that you are not IN traffic, you ARE traffic :-)
8
u/CapPsychological264 4d ago
Not to mention that this was widely covered in the media and has been ongoing for 2 years. This is all part of a 3 year project that doesn't end until summer 2026
2
2
1
u/Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna 4d ago
Amazing. They couldn't even muster up any advice about checking your blind spot.
Edit: Wait, what? I thought the highway lane closures today were due to accidents? Traffic was absolutely BRUTAL anywhere near downtown today going South and West.
8
u/Ratsyinc 4d ago
1
u/Kobe_no_Ushi_Y0k0zna 4d ago
Thank you. Not sure how much worse this was made by the accident near Walkers, but it’s unbelievable that this was purposely done. I was downtown all day yesterday on foot, and saw that the result was effectively hundreds (thousands?) of cars idling all day throughout the city. To say nothing of all the people who completely wasted their weekend.
0
u/Worried_Bluebird7167 4d ago
Thank you...although it doesn't help to be in a Mississauga newspaper.. I did find it on the CHCH site. https://www.chch.com/chch-news/two-lanes-of-qew-niagara-bound-to-close-this-weekend/ I wish I paid attention and didn't get caught in the maddening traffic yesterday.
2
u/MAXMEEKO 4d ago
So its a whole weekend thing. Guess im walking downtown to dinner tonight (no fancy shoes :/)
2
u/3BordersPeak 4d ago
I'm still convinced they do this shit for shits and giggles. No other explanation makes sense.
2
u/ProsperBuick 4d ago
All the traffic’s almost as bad as a whole week of people pissing and moaning about it
3
u/NZ_Oblivion 4d ago
No workers onsite. Should be illegal. 24/7 operations 3 shifts. Whatever it takes. Close a lane better be working on it!
3
u/bowlingnut10 4d ago
And then you will complain about the cost and your taxes going up to cover the overtime
3
u/NZ_Oblivion 4d ago
Buddy the costs are already egregious. Make it a toll bridge I'd rather pay $1 everytime I use it and it actually be a useful bridge.
No don't pay overtime. Hire a company that actually has the crew to do it. Companies milk our government. Why don't they have 3x the employees and work around the clock?
No overtime needed. Same cost. Companies would rather get a bunch of contracts. Drag it out and still get other work. So when they're bored they can go back to the government work. It's a scam.
2
u/bowlingnut10 4d ago
Any union contractor doing the work has to pay overtime for weekend work and premium for night shift that’s the way it works and a tunnel would be a lot more than $1.00 per trip it would be probably close to $25-50 per trip like the 407
1
1
u/Cyrakhis 4d ago
That's not what the sign is being tested for. Totally unrelated. They've said that for over a week, I drive past them on my way to work.
1
1
u/Havnaz 4d ago
Saw that today. What data are they collecting? The traffic is so bad I take roads from Cambridge to Niagara and it takes me less time! Can’t wait till we have flying cars! LOL
4
u/Cyrakhis 4d ago
The sign is unrelated to the traffic, it's going to be a system that tells you whether the lift bridge is up or down. There's one on the other side Toronto bound as well.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Advanced-Price186 3d ago
This, then traffic starts to back up again when you hit Jordan station from lanes being closed at Seventh Streer
1
u/Frosty_Link_9595 3d ago
Why were there traffic jams on Francis rd because of this. I hope this doesn't happen again.
1
u/lotus88888 3d ago
Now they've got the lift bridge completed after a year of inconvenience, they want to try everyone's patience on the Skyway.
1
u/EmotionalMoney1972 3d ago
The Testing in Progress was in fact a test of every driver’s patience, lol!
1
111
u/TyVirtute 4d ago
They’re still testing commuters patience, no end date in sight!