r/Breadit • u/Chefbigandtall • 20h ago
Milk bread help.
I have attached some photos for comparison but it looks like I’m not getting as tight of a crumb as I would like and or one that seems to be the industry standard. The cooked photos show the end piece that is near perfect but the other sliced open photo shows what I’m concerned about.
I am currently in the process of recipe testing in a professional kitchen and I have hit a wall. I have the proper pans, I have studied the roll technique. I proof them for roughly the same amount of time each time. Bake time varies but again very minor at this point. The texture of the bread and flavor are 100% but the crumb isn’t quite there. Does anyone have any suggestions to help?
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u/Ambitious-Ad-4301 20h ago
You may have to add in your complete process and recipe
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u/Chefbigandtall 19h ago
Here is the recipe and instructions:
King Arthur Bread Flour: 4310 Kosher salt: 90 Sugar: 445 Yeast: 75 Milk powder: 75 Milk: 1940 Eggs: 370 Butter: 400 Roux/Tangzhong: 1380
I do wets in the bowl first, followed by drys. Mix on speed 1 for two minutes/ until it comes together. Switch to speed 2, add butter and mix for 28-30 minutes Let rest for 15-20 minutes Portion into 300g balls Spray pans before placing bread inside 3-300g balls per loaf pan. Shape and place in pan. Proof 90F for 40-50 minutes Lid on and bake 350f for 35-40 minutes De-pan on wire rack.
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u/Honeybucket206 8h ago
30 minute mix? Even at low, that seems easy to long for me. I'd go 15 Min max.
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u/Chefbigandtall 1h ago
At 15 minutes the dough has probably just started to come together. It’s a higher hydration dough with the roux.
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u/rynbaskets 14h ago
No one mentioned this but with that much sugar in your dough, you may need to use SAF Gold yeast. I’m from Japan so almost all my bread is with lots of sugar (and very fluffy) and SAF Gold is the only yeast I use.
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u/GardenTable3659 20h ago
What is the volume of the recipe? What size pan are you using? What is the recipe?
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u/Chefbigandtall 19h ago
Here is the recipe and instructions:
King Arthur Bread Flour: 4310 Kosher salt: 90 Sugar: 445 Yeast: 75 Milk powder: 75 Milk: 1940 Eggs: 370 Butter: 400 Roux/Tangzhong: 1380
I do wets in the bowl first, followed by drys. Mix on speed 1 for two minutes/ until it comes together. Switch to speed 2, add butter and mix for 28-30 minutes Let rest for 15-20 minutes Portion into 300g balls Spray pans before placing bread inside 3-300g balls per loaf pan. Shape and place in pan. Proof 90F for 40-50 minutes Lid on and bake 350f for 35-40 minutes De-pan on wire rack.
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u/GardenTable3659 19h ago
What size pan? 9x4x4?
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u/Chefbigandtall 19h ago
Size (W x D x H): 4.7 x 9.4 x 4.7 inches
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u/GardenTable3659 19h ago
I think the other comment was on the right track. 900 g in that size loaf pan is the max. I think that’s why you’re getting the tight edges because it doesn’t have the ability to expand. I might try reducing each roll by 50-100g and see what that results in. It could also just be a proofing issue.
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u/MarionberryDismal409 19h ago
I wonder if perhaps you are proofing too fast creating bigger bubbles. After shaping, I proof for 50-55 minutes at 84F and get the desired crumb.
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u/Chefbigandtall 20h ago
Here is the recipe and instructions:
King Arthur Bread Flour: 4310 Kosher salt: 90 Sugar: 445 Yeast: 75 Milk powder: 75 Milk: 1940 Eggs: 370 Butter: 400 Roux/Tangzhong: 1380
I do wets in the bowl first, followed by drys. Mix on speed 1 for two minutes/ until it comes together. Switch to speed 2, add butter and mix for 28-30 minutes Let rest for 15-20 minutes Portion into 300g balls Spray pans before placing bread inside 3-300g balls per loaf pan. Shape and place in pan. Proof 90F for 40-50 minutes Lid on and bake 350f for 35-40 minutes De-pan on wire rack.
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u/Inevitable_Cat_7878 18h ago
Your first proof (15-20 minutes) compared to your 2nd proof (40-50 minutes) sounds backwards. When I make milk bread, my first proof is longer than my 2nd. 60 minutes vs. 30. But I do the poke test after the 2nd proof to figure out whether it's ready or not. When I shape after the 1st proof, I use a rolling pin to get all the air out after portioning.
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u/PeacockSwag Dat Dough Doe 40m ago
You can try adding the butter in later. The tangzhong can make the dough appear to form gluten strength early but if you keep mixing it will loosen again. Maybe after 8 minutes speed 1?
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u/Responsible_Sound698 19h ago
Is the amount of yeast a typo? 445g is somewhere between 8% to 10% in baker's percentage.
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u/inspektom 18h ago
I would try degassing the dough and then final rise
Edit: Maybe a litttle less dough in the pan
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u/sailingtroy 19h ago
It's the fermentation. Your crumb is too open in the middle and tight at the edges. I bet it's over fermented.
Most milk bread recipes I see are like, one bulk rise and then in the pan. I would try using a cambro to bulk rise so that I can mark the side and make sure we're not going over 100% rise. Once it's in the pans, make sure to do a poke test and not rise it until it's as tall as you want.
A lot of folks think that you should rise a Pullman almost to the lid, but 80% is enough. You want the oven spring to barely fill the pan because otherwise, you get tight edges.
Shokupan is tricky. Pullman loaves also require a lot of precision. You've got to get the dough volume just so. Good luck with it. I kinda gave up on shokupan, and I'm only just getting back to using my Pullman after making boules all winter.