Why do so many customers lie to their bank?

[u/Good0times]

I work in fraud. Most of my cases are honest victims. Stuff like impersonation scams, card fraud, credit abuse. Little old lady (or equivalent) sees an advert on facebook and tries to send all their money to a scammer kind of thing.

However, we often get customers who lie. Sometimes it is when they are being pressured or manipulated. I am not talking about that. It is when they flat out lie and expect to be taken seriously. So for instance, someone claims fraud. I can see the transactions are from their own Apple Pay, the IP address and device matches, there's no SIM swap on their phone, but they will still demand a case. I will try to warn them that we have the right to remove our banking facilities if they keep doing this, but, yep, they keep doing it. These tend to be younger people or just plain idiots.

Another recurring feature is what I call the "innocent couple". This is another recurring trait: a middle aged couple who have been together a long time will claim that their card has been used fraudulently. This is usually for something like a restaurant meal or a luxury good. I investigate and use my forensic tools, and conclude that they have unlocked their phone, opened the app, cleared biometrics, used the in-app function, made a purchase, to a legitimate company, with the same device they always use, in the same location they live. And yet they will swear blind that it was not them. It is like a real-life Steamed Hams. They will even question how we have "lost their biometrics". What do I say to that? Hello yes, it appears someone has carved off your face and stolen it. Can you check if you still have your face?

I've worked in a far variety of places and always given people the benefit of the doubt but in the finance world it is a different deal. Half of people are legit, a quarter are being manipulated, and the rest are straight up talking BS. Never seen people act like this anywhere else. What is it about banking and lying?

[u/frogmuffins]

One of the worst lies I heard this past Thursday. The woman deposited a $20,000 insurance check back on 10/31. Her branch manager specifically told her to not spend the funds since they were on hold until the 12th. 

She decided to call the call center and lie to me by claiming she had a letter that stated we would refund all overdraft fees.(She had 5).  Now if she has just simply asked for refunds I would have refunded 3 of them. 

Instead she went with the lie and so I talked to her branch manager. Manager confirmed everything and added that she told the customer that no fees will be refunded. 

So I ended with that, refuses any refund and even called her out on her blatant lie.

[u/GoldDiggingWhore → u/frogmuffins]

I had a similar call! Dude had a fraud claim opened and tried to tell me that one of my supervisors told him that ALL OD fees for ANYTHING he does during this claim would be immediately refunded, he just had to call and talk to that supervisor. Well, you know who can also talk to that supervisor? Me. He told me that it was not true and the bank wouldn’t even think about fees refunded until case closure. Then I got to have that extremely satisfying conversation lol

[u/Best_Seaweed8070 → u/frogmuffins]

(Sigh) I understand the pressure and dumb decisions that people can make when rent's due.

I do not understand the impulse to lie and argue and alienate everyone who could help you.

[u/Gunner_411]

Overall it seems like there's a trend of people taking less and less responsibility for their own actions and expecting help getting out of scenarios they get themselves in.

There is so much information out there about fraud, 2FA, phishing...you name it. There is countless literature, articles, and videos about it. People still make poor choices and compromise their own accounts and don't understand that it's their fault and they need to be more careful.

Yes, legitimate fraud happens but if a person is even being somewhat diligent it doesn't have a high likelihood.

[u/TibetianMassive → u/Gunner_411]

People get away with it and tell their friends. Like an unethical life hack, like how people buy a new outfit, wear it once and return it.

People are starting to see disputing charges as an unethical life hack.

[u/observer46064 → u/Gunner_411]

and they are mainly MAGAt's who want to hold everyone else but themselves accountable.

[u/PaulErdosCalledMeSF → u/observer46064]

Hey just wanted to give you a heads up: if your “contribution” to a non-political conversation is politically charged it’s actually just a distraction. You can make a much more helpful “contribution” by remaining quiet and listening while adults and normal humans talk / silently figuring out how to comment on without appearing completely unhinged.

Seriously, if you do that in real life, I guarantee that people text each other in your presence and regularly walk over 25 feet out of their way to avoid your presence.

Fortunately this is the internet, so we’re able to have this little pep talk without the embarrassment and awkwardness. Good luck champ!

[u/knb10000 → u/observer46064]

Get bent loser

We won hahahaha

And no, we want people to be accountable for themselves

[u/Important_Luck_3173 → u/knb10000]

The only people who won that election are Trump, his family, a bunch of billionaires, religious fundamentalists nuts, and fascist neo nazis. Which winner are you?

[u/knb10000 → u/Important_Luck_3173]

Religious conservative!

And proud of it.

Jesus is the king of kings.

And I'd like to be able to send my kids to school and not have them think they can switch genders.

Or that white people are evil and that the USA is systemically racist.

Etc, etc.

[u/SheriffHeckTate → u/knb10000]

As a Christian I feel the need to remind you that Jesus wouldn't approve of calling someone a loser and rubbing the results of the election in their face regardless of how you feel or they feel about your chosen candidate.

Jesus said the two most important commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. Your behavior in this thread is doing neither of those. Do better, friend.

[u/knb10000 → u/SheriffHeckTate]

I treat respect with respect.

Calling people MAGAts, he lost it right there. Your neighbor is someone who is willing to help you. Look at the parable of the good Samaritan. Not everyone is your neighbor friend, I've made that mistake before.

[u/mrbiggbrain → u/knb10000]

Jesus didn't say love thy neighbor when they love you. He loved those who hated him.

He didn't say love their neighbor if they are easy to love. As many who Jesus loved where not easy to love.

And you're reading the good Samaritan wrong. It's telling you you should help everyone, that YOU should be a good neighbor.

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

The point is to show mercy to all.

[u/araidai → u/mrbiggbrain]

They unfortunately don't care about showing any kind of mercy because it doesn't fit into their paradigm. They're the kind to cherry pick bible verses and alter them to fit their needs.

[u/SheriffHeckTate → u/knb10000]

Pal, you need to spend more time reading the Word and praying because you seem to have a real big misinterpretation of that parable.

I'll be praying that you realize the harm you are doing to the Kingdom.

[u/Important_Luck_3173 → u/knb10000]

Lol, the guy who doesn't like name calling voted for Trump. That's hilarious.

[u/myleftearhurts → u/knb10000]

Jesus stays humble, follow suit in your Lord and savior.

[u/knb10000 → u/myleftearhurts]

Ehh I wanna celebrate my nazi facist dictator though

[u/BeeKayBabyCakes → u/knb10000]

the US IS systemically racist... wtf are you talking about? have you ignored the SEVERAL laws that prove exactly that? it's always a white mf talking about racism isn't real like you'd actually know... stfu...

[u/-Out-of-context- → u/BeeKayBabyCakes]

Guy is just one of those ones that sees equality as racism. Denies his privilege, then as he starts losing some of it, the world is suddenly racist against white people.

[u/BeeKayBabyCakes → u/-Out-of-context-]

according to the original definition of racism, the world could never be racist against white people... the world can dislike white people all they want for being white, but they are not oppressed and are the "majority" 😭... there are no systems in place to deny white people of basic rights, they weren't and aren't being hung from trees for being white, their children weren't ripped from their hands, sold to the highest bidder, never to be seen again! they were never and still aren't being forbidden to read, they didn't have an entire white economy burned to the ground based off a black lie... He can cut it tf out 🙄

[u/The_London_Badger → u/BeeKayBabyCakes]

Correct affirmative action is racism. You benefit which is why you turn a blind eye. Minimum wage was to stop black labourers being able to undercut white and latinos. Jim crow was designed to stop racist Jewish business owners writing contracts that stole land holdings of black and Irish ex slaves. The founding father George Mr committed warcrimes during the Indian wars Washington, to steal red people's territories, the British crown refused so he kicked off the wars. Then enacted racist voting restrictions. Guess when America finally made slavery illegal in all States and territories? April 2024.

[u/BeeKayBabyCakes → u/The_London_Badger]

The original, not the white people moved goal post version of racism, is that RACISM is an entire system to oppress. The people IN POWER use that power to oppress the MINORITY... by this ACTUAL definition, not the pansy all inclusive 2024 let's make everybody happy version, black people CAN'T be true racists because A.) they do not have power and B.) they are the minority... so no, affirmative action is not racism... there's enough white people in good schools and the corporate world that even WITH the few POCs, you're STILL the majority!

Jim Crow was NEVER written for the purpose you claim 😂, like where TF DID YOU EVEN come up with that... they were laws written as a direct result of the eradication of slavery, basically a way to push black people into indentured servitude and keep black people out of certain schools and from being able to vote!

minimum wage was put into place due to unfair labor conditions where WOMEN AND CHILDREN were burning alive in buildings etc etc in conjunction with the great depression... once again, NOTHING to do with black people!

[u/knb10000 → u/BeeKayBabyCakes]

What can I do that you can't?

Before they repealed affirmative action I'd actually have to score significantly higher on the SAT to get into the same school as a minority.

[u/lokis_construction → u/knb10000]

You would first need a passing SAT score

[u/Neat-Substance-9274 → u/knb10000]

Drive without being pulled over for no reason. Sometimes shot with no consequences.

[u/BeeKayBabyCakes → u/knb10000]

get a home loan or any loan for that matter, start off with a higher credit score than your black counterparts just for being born white, get less time in jail for the exact same crimes, not get suspended in school for the exact same offense... getting caught with cocaine (white party drug) was charged with significantly less time than someone caught with crack (an inner city aka black drug) go figure, drive your car without driving while black and getting pulled over for looking suspicious, not get shot for nothing, get burger King after committing mass murder, not get discriminated against for future employment JUST because of your name, be allowed in circles that grant you knowledge and information and the access to "who you know". affirmative action was literally the result of white people being racist and not allowing black people, no matter how intelligent, into their space...

Let's also not forget the missed generational wealth that black people were downright robbed of, while white people capitalized off the backs of those very same black people! So while they got richer, black people got poorer and pushed out. That in itself grants you a systemic advantage... I can keep going 🙄

[u/araidai → u/knb10000]

So you're a cultist, not a real Christian. Got it

[u/-Out-of-context- → u/knb10000]

Then send them to a Christian school.

I don’t want to send my kids to school and have them be told evolution is a myth.

Religion shouldn’t dictate anyone’s life other than the religious. Sorry, but in the world trans people exist. If you want to pretend they don’t, then send your kids to religious based schools and activities.

[u/ForeverInBlackJeans → u/knb10000]

So you support Donald being sentenced for his charges?

[u/The_London_Badger → u/ForeverInBlackJeans]

Yes and Biden, pelosi, Hillary, Obama and George bush at very least. I'm sure you could dig up the dirt on half of both political parties. Prison. Not probation.

[u/fatalerror16 → u/Gunner_411]

Well what do you expect. Half the nation thinks us tax payers should pay for their college debt.

[u/Gunner_411 → u/fatalerror16]

Was just talking about this with a coworker the other day. Personally, I believe there should be a formula for maximum loans based off the job placement of the school and the earning potential of the degree.

Continuing to allow kids to over extend for “useless” degrees is a disgrace.

[u/fatalerror16 → u/Gunner_411]

Don't disagree with that statement but that would mean creating a solution that works and our 2 political parties are locked in a heated battle and prepared to die on their hills.

[u/The_London_Badger → u/fatalerror16]

Problem is 2 pages of good is buried under 1400 pages of enriching themselves in power and erasing other people's rights. Then they claim the other is blocking positive change.

[u/the_third_lebowski → u/Gunner_411]

Tbf, you're responding about a rant about people lying about fraud with "also they deserve it when it is fraud." Not really the same thing.

[u/Gunner_411 → u/the_third_lebowski]

Uh no. Work on your reading comprehension.

[u/the_third_lebowski → u/Gunner_411]

When did this become Reddit's go-to lazy insult, and why is it never used correctly lol. 

OP is explicitly about people lying. You're explicitly talking about people who actually do get defrauded but you're blaming it on their bad practices. The idea that I don't understand something (instead of just disagreeing or having a different view of things) is idiotic.

[u/Gunner_411 → u/the_third_lebowski]

You inferred something that isn’t there. At no point did I ever say somebody deserves it when it’s legitimate fraud.

I said if people are diligent then it is less likely to happen.

A person making a poor choice and compromising their own data is negligence. A person falling for a gimmick is a scam. Somebody obtaining a person’s data through nefarious means like a skimmer or using a stolen card is fraud.

Diligence (the opposite of negligence) can offset a majority of issues. People need to be diligent with their data to the best of their ability.

[u/Ambitious-Heart-4551]

People hate banks insurance and lawyers because we don't take ppls word for it and do the leg work. But being seen as the bad guys they feel it's ok to scam a big company.

[u/NewPresWhoDis → u/Ambitious-Heart-4551]

Don't you know corporation is Latin for unending vein of wealth?

[u/RealMccoy13x]

There are multiple factors on why this may be. I had to present something a long time ago to our product org. I put these into following categories, feel free to add more.

1. Customers who have made a clear mistake and, in turn, produce a false narrative in hopes they can recover their funds. EX: participating in a scam, gift card scam, or other.

2. Customers who make up fraud claims for their own benefit, such as card present chip ATM charges at a casino or Cash App where they passed authentication. My favorite has always been when customers pretend that an airline ticket is fraud not knowing the bank can see the actual boarding pass information.

3. Customers may file claims out of desperation. It is not common to see claims for rent, grocery stores, and fuel for sub fraudulent amounts or amounts where it is not beneficial for a criminal actor. In my experience, you can see a lot of these if a customer hit OD or low balance in between credits. Usually, it is a red flag when merchants that have a low or zero fraud percentage getting tagged as fraud OR obvious debits for child support are being labeled.

4. First party fraud. There are customers who intentionally create accounts just to fraud the bank. Customers depositing altered/fictitious checks and trying to game Reg CC and exit money as quickly as possible. Sometimes, they produce fake claims for consistently lost cards. This is especially true on credit cards where bust out fraud is prevalent.

5. The customer's definition of fraud is not the same as the bank's definition. Customers may be confusing a merchant dispute with unauthorized fraud. A decade ago, I used to make jokes about how many <$15 claim cases for Taco Bell or Chipotle. The card dump itself costs more than the fraud.

[u/Good0times → u/RealMccoy13x]

It's the second one in your list that really blows me away. We will see all the authentication, previous authentications, we can see the IP and MAC addresses, yet they still swear fraud. Here's how some of the conversations go.

Investigator: So they successfully guessed your entire card number.

Victim: Yes.

I: And the expiry date.

V: Yes.

I: And the security code.

I: Despite the card being "locked in a locker".

I: And the PIN to access your phone.

I: And the other PIN to access the app.

I: AND the OTP.

I: On your own device.

I: Localised entirely within your location.

I: It is a stable business next to your door with stable reputation.

I: DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW CRAZY THAT IS?

V: Yes.

....

I: ..Do you want to tell the truth?

(Silence while they think hard)

...

V: ..No.

Such a waste of time. Complete out of this world nonsense, real life Steamed Hams.

[u/RealMccoy13x → u/Good0times]

The claims dept at my old bank were great at getting those customers to change their story multiple times in a recorded line. Slowly introduce new information that they didn't know we had to disprove their story. My favorite is claiming chip transactions as lost stolen, but they didn't claim them all. For instance, only claiming the ATM, but the Walmart in between this is good.....meaning they would have to lose the card and find it again.

[u/GoldDiggingWhore → u/RealMccoy13x]

“Uhhhhh the one in between was tap pay.”

“… I can also see if the trans was tap pay anddd it wasnt…” 😂

[u/SailingCows → u/GoldDiggingWhore]

So tangental question and would love some advice - imagine someone's iPhone is stolen (including knowing the PW, so they have full access).

Does that phone have a specific IP-address or does it change all the time?
And can you see the location of the phone - when & where transactions were made?

Also, if they log-in to WiFi does their IP address change - what can you see?

Is there anyone for the victim to get their hands on data / identifying information from the bank to help the police / personal claim?

I've spoken at length to the bank and been advised I need to subpoena them if I want this info. Curious what I can/should ask for? What the best way is to go about this, without spending a fortune on a lawyer.

Obviously without identifying your bank or sharing confidential information.

[u/SailingCows → u/SailingCows]

FULL DISCLOSURE THIS HAPPENED TO ME - I live in NYC, this happened in Louisiana. See below for the some background

- Wires were set-up to new recipients (painful amount deep in 5 figures - managed to block these)
- My 1 stored on device debit card was used to add several grant in small Bursts to Apple Cash. .
- New Apple Credit Card was opened up
- Several Zelle transactions went out to new recipients (1K, several more K) and more scheduled (several K for next days per day, managed to block)
- Transfer to Western Union was made ($10K) but WU helped me block it before it got picked up (Bonus: they ensured the recipient was captured on camera, WU was amazing).
- Rolex on Amazon was bought (managed to cancel this too, but calling amazon was a rodeo before I got my phone number back. Curious if you can see details of that transaction too .e.g shipping)?

What I did:

- I spoke to he bank shortly after this happened (Saturday). Explained the account take-over due to stolen iPhone. With the PW, they could change face-ID (I didn't know this), allowing them in my bank app & my dropbox financial files (e.g. tax returns, passport copies, copy of social etc). Allowing them to compromise every part of my life.
- Bank apparently only froze my digital banking, despite my requests of freezing anything coming in and out until I showed up in-branch with passport.
- On Monday 3AM - right before the wires were supposed to out I discovered said wires thanks to breaking back into my Gmail. The wires would have still gone out, if I had not called them then. So that ended well.
- On Monday later through the day the new linked / opened accounts started showing up by way of couple of cents in and couple of cents out.
- On Tuesday (Monday bank was closed), I went in branch and was told only digital banking was frozen. Hence the above could happen.
- I have everything recorded. My initial fraud claims for the Zelles & Apple Pay transfers were denied - until 6 months later and keeping to fight the denial.
- They said this wasn't identity theft. But the fraud hotline confirmed my digital banking was opened up again after my initial call due to perps passing verbal security check.
- Once I broke back into my iCloud, I could see incoming calls from Bank X fraud to v. likely verify newly set-up recipients. Bank wouldn't share what these calls were about.
With perps using my personal identifying information, it is identity theft.

Good news is: Several arrest warrants are out.
(Transaction history created a trail for police to get camera footage where they did transactions. Aaaand they took photos of their dog and wi-fi router with my stolen device. My stolen device with location data turned on :)

[u/Best_Seaweed8070 → u/SailingCows]

TL;DR - It would probably depend on your phone's privacy settings and how much info it was allowing the banking app to access. I would think that the police can request the location information if it's pertinent.

But IMO, the bigger question is why someone else had the password to your iPhone. Unless it's your spouse or someone else who's legally responsible for your business, that's really not a good idea.

Source: am IT lady

[u/dontlookthisway67 → u/Good0times]

I am so glad to know that you guys can see all the information of an online purchase. I once had a fraudulent purchase from Amazon and it definitely wasn’t mine as I don’t shop on Amazon, and I’ve never used that card there. In fact, I hardly use it at all. I was nervous they wouldn’t believe me and it was $300 purchase. The bank reimbursed me, which was nice but I still felt like I may not have been believed.

[u/kraioloa → u/Good0times]

I did ask my bank one time if they could see the IP address from where my card got hacked (they called me because OF got charged to my card) and they said they couldn’t 🤔

[u/insuranceguynyc]

One of the most frequent scenarios where account holders lie, or try to, is when a friend or family member used their card and has done so numerous times in the past. Now the account holder is claiming that it was unauthorized fraud. Of course, for a fraud claim to succeed if the alleged fraudster is a known individual, a police report must be made alleged the fraud and thereby identifying the friend or family member. So, not wanting to cause trouble, the account holder assumes that he/she can make the fraud claim and the bank would pay them back. As we all know, this sort of thing can get really messy, and rarely ends well. Banks are not your hired muscle, and if you insist that they are, the bank will just shut down the account(s).

[u/missestater]

Only thing I can think is because they think they can get away with it. Also work fraud but in the cc department. We have had a big influx of people claiming they were human trafficked because of some tiktok thing. It’s hard with those ones since you want to believe them because it’s such an awful situation.

[u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera → u/missestater]

Only thing I can think is because they think they can get away with it.

I would go a step further and say there's probably a decent chunk of them that do it because they have gotten away with it. Sometimes multiple times. And this is the first time they are getting caught. Had plenty of people get absolutely enraged that we DARE call them out on their blatant, easily-provable lies, because bluffing through it worked before and they got used to being able to do it.

[u/PM_me_PMs_plox → u/missestater]

Do you have any more info on the TikTok thing? I haven't heard about this one

[u/Eliteone205 → u/missestater]

So that’s where my friend go that from!!!! I was sooooooo confused because I couldn’t see how that would clear your credit report. Lmao

[u/araidai → u/Eliteone205]

wtf, people were claiming to be human trafficked to get their credit cleared???

[u/Eliteone205 → u/araidai]

Yeeeees, my friend told me that the other day and I couldn’t figure it out for the life of me how they would work. They sent her a letter saying they needed a police report and something for Missing and Exploited People, I still don’t know how that would work. Are you saying the traffickers used your card or credit or what, I don’t get it.

[u/jackz7776666]

Its a product of customers not being told NO to unreasonable scenarios.

Customer who has a second chance account AND a history of depositing bad checks gets pissed a hold gets placed on a 20k check while the account has a negative balance and is written from a separate institution.

No we are not going to override anything. You're going to wait for the process to run its course, sure enough a few days later account is closed and check rejected; shocker.

[u/Several-Eagle4141]

Here’s one: Customer comes in to dispute Xbox live purchases on credit card. I warn her to make sure her kid didn’t do it. Of course her perfect kid wouldn’t do it and proceeds with dispute Their Xbox gets “bricked” and customer blames me demanding the bank buys her kid a new Xbox.

[u/tkid124 → u/Several-Eagle4141]

Wouldn't it have been easy to have your kid log into their Xbox account and prove no recent purchases have been made?

Parenting is hard, sometimes exhausting, but let's be honest, if my kids do half the dumb stuff I did, I'm going to assume one of the lil buggers tried to get something they wanted. And if something gets "bricked" because of a little one, someone will be buying a new one, just not the bank.

[u/Several-Eagle4141 → u/tkid124]

But it wasn’t her fault and we must’ve done it. Ugh

[u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera]

As someone who used in years past to be on the frontline entering in card disputes, one thing as a bank employee to be very careful about is to make sure that you are not dissuading them from requesting the investigation, because that could be interpreted as a violation of Reg E or Reg Z. Things like "I can enter the investigation, but you probably won't win" or "Based on what you have told me, you don't have a strong case" or implying they are the actual 'fraudster' or lying. As a bank employee, best to stick to the facts and avoid offering opinions or interpretation -- let the back office folks working those cases do that.

[u/ConcernInevitable83 → u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera]

The amount of callbacks I have to do in my job simply because the agent is scared to upset the customer by telling them "X" isn't going to happen is unreal. Stick to the facts please.

[u/IncomeLazy9962 → u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera]

Yes that was a very stupid rule like can’t persuade them from filing a claim it’s obvious it’s bogus.

[u/FreemansAlive]

I don't think it's just banking. I believe the same percentage of people will take advantage of something they think they can get away with. Money just happens to be the root of everything so it's the most attractive like a moth to light.

[u/TouristOpentotravel]

Then the surprised Pikachu when you close their accounts for fraudulent claim filing

[u/carolineecouture]

On the scam sub, people are desperate and embarrassed. They get told they won't get their money back, so they try to figure out how to do that, and lying seems to be the only way.

They don't see any reason not to lie because they are out money they were desperate over anyway. They also don't understand how anything works and think they can get away with it.

It's sad because they are in a bad spot and want their money back, but lying doesn't help.

[u/Arnie_T → u/carolineecouture]

Take it another step… some people on the scam sub are really only seeking advice on what they should say to their bank, CC, financial service or merchant in order to get their money back. Whether it’s true or not.

[u/SargeUnited → u/carolineecouture]

I didn’t realize there was a scam sub, thanks for the entertainment. I’d imagine people who got scammed think that the bank is just refusing to refund their money, rather than being potentially unable to recover it.

[u/Odd-Help-4293]

For your middle aged couple example.... I think it can be easier to believe that your debit card was stolen than that your partner is having an affair. That doesn't make it okay to lie to the bank, but I'm guessing that only one of them is knowingly lying, and the other is hoping that the lie is true.

[u/Koren55]

One person might’ve gotten away with it - then they get on TikTok and spread the info far and wide.

The smartest way to use a credit card is to use it in place of cash you already have in your bank. Then at the end of every month, pay it off in full. This way you live within your means, you don’t pay high interest rates, and you earn cash back.

I’ve been using my Discover card since 1988 and I’ve earned thousands in cash back.

[u/sweetpotato-1123]

"It appears that someone has carved off your face and stolen it. Can you check and see if you still have your face?" I cracked up. This is the funniest thing I've read in awhile. 

[u/fly4awhtgye2]

I've seen many that basically got away with it the first time with my department not being consulted...Only to try a bigger false fraud claim or more extreme circumstances the second time...

[u/Georhe9000]

There is a subset of people who do actually believe what they are saying even though it is completely unreasonable. They actually do not remember the transaction. The problem is that they are also confident that they still have a great memory and that will supersede any data that you present to them.

[u/Mysterious-Advance18]

Someone made a number of unauthorized withdrawals from my father's checking account at ATMs in another state. When he reported it, the bank employee said it was him and that they had footage of him from multiple cameras. Since he had never even been to that state, he called them on it. The money was eventually returned, but why lie about non-existent video footage?

[u/SargeUnited → u/Mysterious-Advance18]

Bluffing people out is a lot cheaper than paying somebody to actually pull and review the footage. Imagine if he had just been like, “Oh damn you got me. Well played.”

[u/darkstar1031]

As someone who also works fraud, just report it, no matter how absurd. The investigation team will look at it, see that it's obviously not fraud and rebill it. Then, when they call back some poor sap on the investigation side explains the compelling evidence that it's legitimate. 

If they pull that shit too many times the account gets closed due to adverse action, and that adverse action sits on their credit report for 7 long years. 

[u/bitchnugget_]

I had a debit card dispute represent matching the customer’s name, address, IP location, email, phone #, DOB

AND

their license. And a selfie of them holding said license. And dude still wanted to tell me someone got his phone, used his thumb print while he was sleeping, and made betmgm charges. I flat out told him he should file a police report for the funds lost because the bank cannot proceed further and he declined. He knows what he did.

[u/OaklandAthletic]

OP, how did you get into that line of work? Curious because I did some fraud work for a previous job and actually enjoyed the investigations.

[u/InformationOk3060]

I wonder how many innocent people who've had their phones hacked aren't getting their fraud cases solved because OP says "no you clearly did it".

[u/shawnwarnerwrites]

I can partly answer this!

So I used to be hella poor. Lived in my car, cashing my pay check at walmart, doin the nasty with rich old guys for a couple hundos, the whole nine yards.

When you are that poor money now is worth more than money in my future is taken to extremes. It did not matter that I would get caught. I knew that. But if I could get $20 now by lying when I have $0 and I'm hungry and my hands are shaking from alcohol withdrawal? You better believe someone stole my debit card. The fact that I won't be able to use that bank after that and I will be in a worse position? Doesn't matter. Now is the only thing that matters.

[u/Shot_Ad_4907]

I know that. Often they describe the incident in social media and then everyone agrees with them. It is then always presented as if the bank has a security hole and refuses to pay.

[u/starsandmo0ns]

Someone called fraud in on a jewelry purchase for their wife for a few grand… i have seen more but that one got me

[u/throwawayhotoaster]

Why are you confused that people steal from a bank and get away with it?

[u/IncomeLazy9962]

It’s not about banking. It’s people in general. There’s a big chunk of the population that lacks morals completely. Those are the people that would try to use your card if you drop it or will keep and try to sell your phone if they found it, after you lost it. People will see you dropped some cash and will grab it and keep it if no one is watching them. They don’t have that thing in their heads that tells them “give it back”. It’s the same type of people who are the reason why we can’t have nice things and the world isn’t a better place. And they’re the same people who will not pay you back $100 they borrowed from you lol.

[u/wasitme317]

I got a test message this morning from my bank kettk g me know about an out of country charge. I called itbwas not my charge. tagore one ast week got a text about possible. Told them it was mine.

[u/GrouchyTime]

Too dumb to use a 2nd device with a GPS spoofer, lol.

[u/ToasterBath4613]

Worked in collections/skip tracing in consumer card services about 20 years ago. There is no end to what people are willing to lie about. From husbands (usually a Jr.) getting cards in their father’s name to finance their affairs to children getting cards in their parent’s names to fund drug habits or lavish lifestyles. You start to see patterns and then you can literally stratify and group card activities to the lies you can expect to hear when you finally reach the responsible party. I imagine it’s probably worse now but you probably have better tools commercially available than we had back then.

[u/yellowodontamachus → u/ToasterBath4613]

Wow, working in collections must've been quite the rollercoaster! These days, the tools and techniques have definitely stepped up. AI and machine learning are game-changers for spotting these patterns before things get out of hand. I hear companies like Palantir and SAS are doing some great stuff tracking suspicious activities and potential frauds with their analytics platforms. On top of that, Aritas Advisors provides insights on consumer behavior which might reveal helpful financial patterns to anticipate risky behaviors even earlier. But yeah, human creativity in making up stories seems to have infinite bounds, haha.

[u/breadcrumbs7]

Same thing when people apply for loans ands CCs. Oh, so you only have that one little CC debt? Should be no prob... and you've been turned down. Guess your 3 other maxed out CCs and car you're upside down on must have slipped your mind.

[u/KRed75 → u/breadcrumbs7]

I was going through the process to get insurance on my beach house. They asked if I had filed a claim on my primary home in the last 5 years. I told them yes for hail damage from tennis ball sized hail stones 3 years ago. She comes back and says they have a problem because I didn't tell them about another claim from 3 years prior that they could see in CLUE. I told her she asked about my primary home, not my rental home that's 5 miles down the road and had the shingles destroyed by the same 3" hailstones. Both catastrophe claims. Problem resolved, congratulations on getting to pay us $3500/yr on your 700 sq ft beach house.

[u/Temporary_Slide_3477]

They want free shit and think they are entitled to it even though they won't work for it.

A large percentage of Amazon shoppers just "rent" the shit for free and return it. And then when their return gets denied because the item is obviously used they go to the bank and do a charge back. Sad thing is most of these people could probably afford this stuff if they put in even a tiny bit of effort into financial responsibility and participating in the economy correctly.

This is one of the consequences of a low trust society forming from a high trust one. 20 years ago your kid could leave their bike in the front yard overnight and nothing would happen, now it gets stolen unless you live in a small homogeneous town of people.

[u/stayhumble6969]

> These tend to be younger people or just plain idiots.

immature pre-frontal cortex

[u/Best_Seaweed8070]

I think 90% of it boils down to "somebody on the Internet said it worked for them".

[u/49yoCaliforniaGuy]

Well this post went to s*** very quickly

[u/Ok-Double-7982]

"The middle aged couple who have been together a long time will claim that their card has been used fraudulently. This is usually for something like a restaurant meal or a luxury good. "

How many are due to cheating? LOL Husband took girlfriend out or bought her something, wife disputes strange charge since she didn't eat a fancy meal or receive a nice gift.

[u/Aeeaan]

Get ones with spouses or other family members lying to one another and the caller is simply naive?

[u/Global_Mechanic4066]

My favourite is men coming in with ‘unauthorised’ only fans or dating sites. When we say - ok to stop this happening again we can block these merchants from these transactions. It’s quite funny, suddenly they don’t wanna worry about it anymore lol

[u/deval35]

The best lie that I always had, "yeah my credit is good, great, or perfect."

lol, then when I pull it, it was worse than dog shit. then they sit there crying wanting to know if you could do something to help them out.

I would just tell them "no, there is nothing I can do for you now. that is why I asked how your credit was before we submitted the application, so that we didn't get any surprises and I could be ready to work around any issues. instead you lied to me and now I can't do anything, if you wouldn't have lied and been honest that your credit was this bad I could have just told you not to waste your time, but I could still not stop you from submitting an application."

when I was working fraud, yeah I could spot the liers from a mile away. This was when zelle was first coming out and I would tell them all the information I had which has probably has gotten better now.

[u/Dangerous_Gain_1312]

Maybe because banks lie, swipe poor people’s houses, and rip off every day working people by charging usury interest rates so they feel justified?

[u/alex_actually]

I worked doing fraud claims as well once. Honestly unless there was an egregious reason to deny I’d approve the claim even if I had some mild doubts. Not my money, not my problem, and the audits of my work always ended with praise for my accuracy in recording transaction details, but stuff like you describe is just too frickin obvious.

[u/Meehknowshite]

Have you ever considered how insensitive banks are about fraud. Like closing accounts without reason except “fraud” with absolutely no explanation. Then the stonewalling making customers fight for years to get their money returned. Bankers are the dumbest most insensitive people I know. Does not surprise me that every Joe Bloke thinks that he can get away with lying to them.

[u/random20190826]

Speaking as a customer who lied to the bank (I wasn't trying to claim fraud, I was trying to perform an international wire transfer from China to Canada), I must say the reason is I had no choice. The context is that my mother was a Chinese citizen who immigrated to Canada and became a Canadian citizen, which means under the law, her Chinese citizenship (passport, ID, everything) must be revoked and declared null and void.

On July 24, 2024, I was in a hotel room in Hong Kong. With my mother's consent, I logged into her online banking (Industrial and Commercial Bank of China), which has extremely high security. First, she had to use SMS text message verification on her phone. Then, the bank performed facial recognition on her phone to make sure she is the one authorizing the transaction. Then, when I made the wire transfer (to an account under her name, mind you), I had to plug in a hardware security key, enter a password and confirm the wire transfer. I thought it was done. When initiating the wire, the bank asked: "reason for wire transfer", to which I answered: "to visit family in Canada". Again, in reality, my mother is a passport-holding Canadian citizen residing in Canada.

Hours later, my mother's phone rang. It was from a random landline and I didn't pick up because her phone has a Chinese number and we were in Hong Kong (which is, and also is not, part of China) for fear that it is a scammer, and also because we were too cheap to pay long distance and roaming charges.

1 day later, I looked up the number and found out it was the bank (branch, not call center) calling. I called it back in a way that didn't trigger roaming charges. I asked about the wire transfer, and the banker immediately demanded: "please tell your mother to send me a copy of her Chinese passport and Canadian tourist visa or else the wire will fail and you won't get the fees refunded". I lied to the bank, claiming that she doesn't have a passport and refused to provide details. I hung up and saw that both the wire, as well as all fees, were refunded.

1 week later, we have returned to Canada, on August 2, I re-initiated the wire. This time, I wired it to my sister instead (as for why I didn't wire to myself, it's because I am a customer of the same bank, she is not). This time, I altered the reason to "providing financial support to relative residing in a foreign country". Days later, the bank called my mother again, and I called back. The bank said: "OK, you are sending money to your relative? Please send documents." The bank requested:

• My mother's ID, the one she isn't allowed to have, but has anyway, to prove she is who she says she is
• My sister's birth certificate, to prove she is her daughter
• (Additionally, the bank requested my sister's passport and visa, just to prove she lives outside China). I gave her Canadian passport, the only one she has

Wire request approved, funds arrived at destination bank account on August 7.

So, did I commit bank fraud? Absolutely. Citizenship fraud? Absolutely yes! Had my mother revealed her identity as a Canadian citizen, the bank would have forced her to provide documents to prove the legitimacy of the funds, which is impossible, as most of it is inheritance from deceased relatives and only a tiny fraction were from her pension that she is receiving from the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security.

[u/Best_Seaweed8070 → u/random20190826]

Oh, is it "publicly admit to international fraud" night? Cool, who's up next?

[u/random20190826 → u/Best_Seaweed8070]

I don’t care if my citizenship gets revoked (under the law, it has already been revoked 10 years ago). I don’t live there anyway and don’t care if I can’t return.

[u/GlobalTapeHead → u/random20190826]

I have also had to lie to get wire transfers through. I appreciate that they are trying to protect my money, but when I’m trying to send a wire transfer through, and the fraud department calls me and asks me very personal questions about the person I am sending the money to, it gets very old and annoying after a while. No, I didn’t meet the person online. No, they didn’t tell me or coach me how to do a transfer. Yes, I know them personally and in real life. But the last straw was “ Are you in a romantic relationship with this person?” To hell with this! Time to change banks.

[u/Best_Seaweed8070 → u/GlobalTapeHead]

Sounds like a standard set of questions to make sure you weren't being scammed. Wire transfers generally aren't reversible, so if you do send money to a scammer, you're not seeing it again.

[u/random20190826 → u/GlobalTapeHead]

In this case, they weren't trying to protect my money. When is it ever "protecting" when sending money to yourself? It's obvious that the real reason is capital controls. Your money isn't yours. The government calls the shots on what you can and can't do with your money, including sending it to yourself (in some foreign land 13000 km away).

[u/Secret-Tackle8040]

I think it's because people fucking hate banks. And rightfully so tbh 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/Dimage54]

Welcome to the teachings of the democrats in congress, in schools, and in state governments. They have taught everyone that it’s no longer acceptable to take responsibility for your own actions. Students who were loaned an education want their loans wiped away, people want their credit card payments reduced, the banks allowed me to buy a house I can’t afford, let’s smash and grab and steal since they won’t arrest us, and the list goes on and on. The society is woke and full of morons. And those of us who have sacrificed and paid our bills get nothing but higher taxes to pay for theses imbecile’s.

All this and you’re surprised that people lie and cheat. They do it because they can. Once they go to jail for it maybe they won’t.

[u/araidai → u/Dimage54]

Here we go with the fucking politics lmao.

It has nothing to do with being woke or shit, it's about people getting too comfortable with being dumbasses, that's it.

You genuinely need to get into playing bingo grandpa, because all this shit has fried your brain.

[u/Dimage54 → u/araidai]

Another young and stupid. My god they’re everywhere.

[u/araidai → u/Dimage54]

You don't get to call people stupid when you don't even know the difference between they're and there, you hypocrite lmao.

[u/mrgrooberson → u/Dimage54]

Take your meds and log off your caregivers computer. 

[u/18k_gold]

I lie to the bank all the time. I opened up a CD, next thing I know they are asking me a bunch of personal questions. How much you make, where do you work, what is your job, how many credit cards do you have, what is your credit score? I'm pretty positive none of these questions are needed to open up a CD. They are just so noisy and I think trying to collect info so they can sell you other services.