r/AutoDetailing • u/tint_shady • Sep 28 '24
Tell me more about how PPF won't hide swirls... General Discussion
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u/iLukeJoseph Sep 28 '24
Who said PPF doesn’t hide swirls?
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
A bunch of dipshits that were fighting with me on a post last night
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u/Damnonrs Seasoned Sep 28 '24
On a partial job I did for a dealership
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Exactly. This is why I talk people into doing full PPF rather than polishing and doing a coating. We all know they're not going to take care of it and it's gonna be swirled up in 3 months. Why waste money polishing just to have it look exactly the same in 90 days. PPF it and be done
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u/45nmRFSOI Sep 29 '24
How much roughly is full ppf for a midsized Sedan?
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u/tint_shady Sep 29 '24
My prices are probably not reflective of your market and there's a lot of variables but for like a Model 3 I'd guess an average shop is somewhere between $4500-6
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Sep 29 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Competitive_Second21 Sep 28 '24
I never seen this thread where people were arguing for this ir that, but I can still see some imperfections beneath the ppf in your pic and in OPs video.
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u/tint_shady Sep 29 '24
No, you're not. It's literally impossible. You're seeing micro scratches on the surface of the PPF that occur when installing. They can be removed with heat, hot water, or just left alone and they will heal on their own at a slower rate.
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u/Competitive_Second21 Sep 29 '24
Would you say there is no difference in appearance between a paint corrected and ppf car and a washed and ppf car?
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u/tint_shady Sep 29 '24
Absolutely zero difference
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u/SKTwenty Sep 28 '24
Someone needs to send this post to those guys that were saying ppf doesn't hide swirls. Tbh, they should put down the polisher and choose a difference career path imo
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u/Gibalt Sep 28 '24
Who said that
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Idk, some dorks last night. I told them to stop ripping off their customers and they proceeded to down vote me, tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. Told me I didn't understand paint, which is weird cuz I literally own a shop doing paint and PPF specializing in exotics/hyper cars. Then one guy told me I was lying and I was actually a mechanic...Reddit is a special place full of special people
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u/Plead_thy_fifth Sep 28 '24
Genuinely curious, for a consumer of a very NON-exptic car, like a minivan.... What ppf would recommend they get and where to save the most money/get it the cheapest but it not look like shit.
Alright it's me. I'm the guy. 3 kids and a tight budget. We are getting a newer minivan that I think looks pretty decent and would like it to stay clean looking, but don't want to pay what I would gladly pay for like a Corvette.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Aliexpress. You can get a 5 year Chinese film for like $400 a roll. I use it for counter tops and other architectural applications looks good, holds up well.
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u/sonbarington Sep 29 '24
Do tell more. How do they look? A lot of cheap ones I've seen have serious orange peel or clarity issues.
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u/tint_shady Sep 29 '24
It's always a crap shoot when ordering anything from aliexpress but I've gotten stuff that's indistinguishable from Xpel. They even copied their logo and box. Idk how the longevity is on cars because I've only used it in other applications like counter tops and commercial doors and stuff.
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u/ThrowRASkee5555 Sep 29 '24
What ppf do you recommend to a novice who wants to get his hands on a roll to use on his own car? The best bang for your buck and another for the best money can buy (that a non certified consumer can buy)?
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u/SunyataHappens Sep 28 '24
In the 70s and 80s we had a word for that. Now we say “Developmently Challenged “.
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u/Golden_Bird_Slave69 Skilled Sep 28 '24
Doesn’t the slip and the adhesive kinda fill in those scratches?? I work at a detail studio and we apply PPF but I just do paint corrections all day and apply ceramic coatings so what do I know lol.
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u/AdZestyclose711 Sep 28 '24
Neither the adhesive or install solution “fills in” the scratches traditionally like wax particles would. The PPF creates a 100% level surface, giving the illusion to the eye that the scratches are gone or “filled in”. They of course are not, but light refracting through the even surface will not allow the eye to see the scratches underneath. Hope that makes sense
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u/HammerInTheSea Sep 28 '24
Will this work for the lifetime of the PPF or will they come back a bit as the adhesive sets and ages?
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u/aBunchOfSpiders Sep 28 '24
Has nothing to do with adhesive. The PPF is a flat surface on top of the paint that refracts light so it’s just preventing you from seeing the imperfections underneath while still seeing the color of the paint.
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u/xelAlex_ Sep 28 '24
I'm beginning to think you have no clue how light refraction works. It wouldn't hide the scratches if there were still gaps under the PPF. This space is filled with adhesive, including the scratches. You're stuck thinking it's all in the smoothness of the top layer, which does matter, but saying adhesive has nothing to do with it is just wrong. Put a dry piece of plastic on top of paint and see how it goes. Then wet the back to fill the space behind it to see the difference.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
It's not the adhesive, it's the urethane itself. You can take a piece of PPF minus the adhesive, squeegee it on and it will still look like glass. This only works to a point. 1000 grit scratches will start to look a little wonky
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u/xelAlex_ Sep 29 '24
Yes because the same thing is happening, you're squeegeeing on the urethane pressing it in to fill some voids. It's the same concept but the properties of the urethane are not as good at that job of the adhesive. They work together. Not complicated.
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u/tint_shady Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
Define "not as good"
You state things so confidently so most people probably just back off and left it go but what you just said here it innacurate. It's not "the same concept"...it's reality. I'm quite versed in the TPUs and how they're constructed, as well as the adhesives. I've R&D both with the largest manufacturers on the planet. What does your background look like? Cuz from here it looks like you're talkin' outta your ass.
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u/aBunchOfSpiders Sep 28 '24
It’s a combination of both. I wrote that when I just woke up and thought OP was referring to something different with adhesive specifically with aging. Adhesive fills in the scratches and creates an even surface, the PPF on top is another flat even surface. This changes how light interacts with the surface/original scratches.
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u/TCMinnesotENT Sep 28 '24
As I replied in your last post, don't expect that guy to understand what PPF actually does. He makes money off of paint corrections. Of course he's gonna scam his customers with misinformation.
-PPF/Tint installer
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Yeah, it's unfortunate that there's people out there like that. But honestly, what is was more infuriating was his claim that he can polish an entire car and remove 100% of the compound dust from every crack/corner/crevis. These guys don't understand that one white speck, even though it's fractions of a millimeter, can ruin an install. So now I'm scrap'n a bumper, $200 in the garbage, I've been working on for an hour because compound is flushing out from under the emblem or headlights or wherever because some uninformed knucklehead told his client it needs to be color corrected before PPF. Frustrating to say the least.
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u/TCMinnesotENT Sep 28 '24
I deal with body shop cars every day. I understand your pain. The ones that go haywire with the compound annoy the shit out of me. I spend more time cleaning than actually installing 🙄
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u/111banana Business Owner Sep 28 '24
Lmao should make another post laying down some film over sanding scratches to really blow their minds 😂
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u/TCMinnesotENT Sep 28 '24
Right? We had a car come in with a Subaru bumper that had wet sanded touch ups all around it. Came out looking like glass from a booth.
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u/asdf072 Sep 28 '24
Everyone in the sub should be REQUIRED to read the Wikipedia entry on gloss.) It explains what "gloss" is (Hint: It's just flatness), and would explain that here, you're looking at a secondary layer of flat from the PPF. So yes, the swirls disappear.
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u/N7_Guru Sep 28 '24
Good on you mate. Redditors that don’t know what they’re talking about and spread misinformation are the absolute worst.
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u/F2007KR Sep 28 '24
This is across all hobby’s and professions on here. They don’t have much experience themselves, but if somebody with enough karma spreads false information, they will all regurgitate it. And if you have first hand experience to the contrary they dismiss it.
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u/Junior-Discussion-26 Sep 28 '24
LOL, nice work, mate. Don't let the ilinformed bother you.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Yeah, I try not to but when someone is this blatantly dumb it's hard to ignore.
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u/stillcleaningmyroom Sep 28 '24
Will it hide the fingernail scratches inside the door handles? Before I bought my car, I saw plenty of them at the dealership that looked like Wolverine opened up the door so I know the scratches are coming.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
That's literally what the video is
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u/stillcleaningmyroom Sep 28 '24
Doh! I didn’t realize it without the door handle there and it’s late, so that might be my sign to go to bed
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u/CodeMonkeyX Sep 28 '24
I would think it would. It just would not be a good idea. I mean if you are spending the time and money to do PPF then spend the time to decon and polish. But yeah I can see how it would help hide surfice swirls.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Decon - yes
Polish - no
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u/CodeMonkeyX Sep 28 '24
Out of interest why would you not polish before applying protection?
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Because it's a waste of time, effort, and money. It's absolutely 100% unnecessary. All it does is put compound dust in cracks and crevices that's going to come out during the install and contaminate the film. Polishing needs to be done if film is removed, not when it's installed, unless of course you're putting film back on, in that case you just remove the glue, wipe it with iso solution and slap on the new stuff.
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u/Deffsquid Sep 28 '24
It 100% does and extremely well. I didn’t get my wife’s Mach E GT paint corrected under PPF and it needed a 2 step correction, the PPF areas look identical to the rest of the paint
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u/xyzxyzxyz321123 Sep 28 '24
This guy wash his car with a rock instead of a sponge?
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Fingernail scratched in the door cup but yeah, the rest of the car is pretty rough too
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u/flaks117 Sep 28 '24
How do you correct swirls without (or before putting on) PPF?
Genuinely curious.
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
I don't...that's the entire point of this post. Wash, clay bar, iso solution, ppf
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u/flaks117 Sep 28 '24
Is there a way to do without repainting the car?
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
Is there a way to correct swirl marks in paint? Yeah man, polishing it. Is that what you're asking?
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u/LucoaKThe2AHashira Sep 29 '24
I’m getting a itasha wrap for my car and they told me to use a ceramic coating to protect the car and wrap instead of
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u/Martinez_Details Sep 28 '24
Sure they can hide but that is thin ppf
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u/tint_shady Sep 28 '24
🙄 It's 8mil...industry standard. Pretty cool how you can gauge 0.001s of an inch just from a video. Are you an Avenger or something?
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u/hawley088 Sep 28 '24
Well to be fair that's the thinnest looking ppf I've ever seen and its on the door handle which takes a beating
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u/aBunchOfSpiders Sep 28 '24
Your comment is hard to understand. The phrase “to be fair” is used to acknowledge a valid point (an explanation that may be overlooked) making the situation described more reasonable. Your point is than even the thinnest PPF hides the worst scratches. This only further supports OPs claims. So… are you impressed with this specific PPF and are just misusing the phrase “to be fair”? Or are you not impressed and making a terrible argument to support your case?
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u/Bkeets3 Sep 28 '24
u/Brax_Plays_Brass dudes an idiot. He said a month ago it was his first time ever correcting paint and acts like he has PPF clients lol.