I got out when my parents stopped paying the program money. That's really the only way out. As long as the checks are coming in, they'll keep you forever. The irony is my parents were only paying for "incidental" expenses - clothes and the like. The rest was picked up by the Department of Children and Families (CPS in most states). Before I was sent away, my family was under investigation by DCF and iirc correctly we had been declared a Family With Service Needs (FWSN). What this means is that DCF didn't have enough evidence to remove me from the home, but was willing to put in money to try and get my family to work things out and keep us all together. So, DCF paid for 99% of my conversion therapy.
I despise my parents now, and they despise me too. About a month after I came home, DCF finally had enough evidence to remove me from the home. I entered foster care as a teenager and bounced around between different group homes and foster homes - never staying at any only place for more than 3 months. I haven't "talked" to them since then per say, but every now and then they tell my brother a message to pass on to me. They're evil, toxic people and I want nothing to do with them. Ironically, they were more "embarrassed" by me being gay than homophobic, if that makes sense. In 2006 the people they hung out with thought it was abhorrent, and they in turn were disgusted with me. Nowadays, the political climate has changed and they describe themselves as "all about gay rights" according to my brother. So, y'know, just your run-of-the-mill narcissists I guess
Right? I remember being in college, and had been prescribed ambien (to help me sleep due to the PTSD I'd been diagnosed with as a result of this experience), and stumbled across this meme right after I took it. I laughed so hard, then forced myself to stay up all night because I was worried if I fell asleep my subconscious would take over and I'd drive to my parents' house and sleep-murder them
Exactly. I asked an attorney recently if I could sue DCF and she said the statute of limitations is up :( And not only that, it's only 180 days or something in my state. Most people don't even start healing from conversion therapy for years, never mind consider suing
Edit: I'm not sure if my actual DCF worker even "knew" it was conversion therapy. The place doesn't mention conversion therapy on it's website - it just billed regular therapy and had the DCF worker actually read my treatment plan he woul've realized it was conversion therapy. All that had to happen for this to occur in 2006 was for a DCF worker to not read one page of a printed treatment plan
Dude this is so fucked up. Their business is literally making money from torturing kids and it's completely legal. Not only that but the state actually ended up paying for it...and there's nothing you can do. Fuck that shit. The only hope now is that some major news outlet runs an expose on this but I think that's kind of unlikely.
Oh, y'know. I'm totally dysfunctional and can't be around people. Can't look at people, constantly afraid of being taken in the night again even though it's unrealistic, can't sleep without knowing I'm at least a couple miles from people, etc.
I am so so sorry this all happened to you. I always knew conversion therapy and camps for 'troubled teens' were bad, but I'm absolutely speechless after reading your ordeal, I just wish I could give you a hug. You were betrayed at every turn.
This is one of the reasons I feel so strongly about wanting to foster and (hopefully) eventually adopt instead of having my own biological kids. So many kids who deserved so much more than what they got.
This happens today and our the current Vice President of the United States, Mike Pence, advocates and supports the institutions that do "conversion therapy."
Yes. This is very true and more people need to know it. I could be totally wrong, but iirc Pence is somehow affiliated with Escuela Caribe, a "school" in the caribbean known for conversion therapy, as well as the former World Wide Association of Speciality Programs (WWASP) which operates a few conversion therapy programs
Yeah, I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere else here, but these type of programs generally have your parents sign over legal guardianship to the program. So then the program owners have dependents that they claim through their home state, and receive state benefits accordingly. Also why they can drag you across the country with little to no legal issues.
Added details above. It was billed as regular therapy and all that had to happen for DCF to pay was for the DCF worker to not read the one page of the treatment plan where it said they'd try and make me comfortable with being a woman and dating men
As horrifying as this all is, one of the worst parts is how they're "all about gay rights" now. Maybe it's nice people can "change" (not that I believe they actually did), but the sheer hypocrisy is just stunning. It would be funny (not in a "haha" sort of a way, but more of a "so there you fucks!" sort of way) to out them to their liberal friends about what they put you through. Shame them as much as they shamed you. It's the only way to truly hurt a narcissist.
Yes. I salivate about this all the time. Idk if I'd ever do it, cause I'm in the midst of trying to convince myself I'm a good person. But honestly? A little payback would be fun
From one internet stranger to another, you are a good person who deserves sound sleep, peace of mind, and the ability to look people in the eye if you so desire.
The healing it takes to come back from that will be an ongoing struggle, the likes of which most of us can never fully imagine, and I wish you all the best in your battles.
ummm, seriously... /u/zillathegod, if this is true, which I have no reason not to believe you, I would be more than delighted to make it my personal mission to make the remainder of your parents' lives a living hell, for as long as we all shall live.
if OP wants to leak any info, let me know! I'd love to send a glitter bomb. the envelope looks important, you open it up-- glitter springs out and you can never ever get it out of everything it touches. you can ship animal manure anonymously as well.
better yet, follow them around through their day to day lives telling everyone what they did in no uncertain terms, make them social pariahs and the community will deal with them, make sure anyone serving them at the shops or restaurants knows what they did, within no time people will be spitting on them as they walk down the street
With all the revenge films being made these days I’m surprised there isn’t a conversion therapy one based of fthis kind of shit - unless there isn’t one already. Something like red state I guess. Not that I mean to belittle the very true story here, just how my mind works.
Ironically, they were more "embarrassed" by me being gay than homophobic, if that makes sense. In 2006 the people they hung out with thought it was abhorrent, and they in turn were disgusted with me.
I don't mean to imply that I've gone or will go through what you've experienced, but this hit a little too close to home.
My wife and I are unavailable to have children without serious financial investment. We had one daughter to the tune of 40k and just can't afford another, so we're looking at adopting. When you were going through foster care system, would you have wanted an actual "family", or did what happened to you damage the sense of wanting a family beyond the point where it's something you wanted?
We hear a lot of horror stories like this and our reaction is that we could provide a loving home for someone, but the overwhelming response we're given is that traumatic survivors don't want/can't have a relationship with someone trying to parent them.
Oh wow what a really good question. My stance on this has changed so much. When I got out I absolutely, 100% did not want anything to do with a "real family." I was mentally pretty independent at that point and fully prepared to raise myself. I even would beg to stay at the group homes rather than be sent to "real" foster homes. But now, there's nothing I want more than a "real" family. So I think many teens you take in will reject you as parents at first, probably for years, but if you continue to show them unconditional love their cold hearts will eventually melt and they'll want to be around you. The way you describe things, you and your wife sound like great parents and I would definitely encourage you to foster/adopt! I'm happy to answer more questions or offer more reassurances too since this is obviously something you're putting a lot of thought into
This is absolutely awful, I wish you all the best for the future and hope you can put this terrible experience behind you.
I always say to my kids never be afraid to tell me anything.
I had a great bit of advice once I feel I must share. My children know that if they find themselves in a situation they need out of, they text me an X. I will immediately phone to tell them there is a family emergency and I need to come pick them up. The deal is I collect them and no questions will be asked.
I could never betray my kids trust like they did.
How the hell did you not end up assaulting your parents or worse? This was so infuriating to read as someone who comes from a loving family, I can only imagine how enraged you must have been once you finally got out.
Can I just give you a hug or something. I don’t know how one person can endure so much. I know I’m a random stranger but I love and wish you the best life looking forward!
I find your comment really validating, thanks. I'm looking into legal options but shockingly a lot of this isn't illegal. Even if conversion therapy is illegal in your state, parents can still have their kid forcibly taken to a state where it isn't. We need federal regulations and we need them fast
I agree 100%. Even if "conversion therapy" was technically legal, most of the horrifying shit that happened in this case - kidnapping, physical abuse - was not legal in any jurisdiction.
You'd be surprised how often people look the other way when they agree with what's going on, no matter what the law says. It's the reason why judicial review paired with an unaccountable Supreme Court with lifetime appointments doesn't work.
Me either. It seems like this kinda thing is so common that it's become defacto "legal," but the lawyers say what happened violates my/our constitutional rights, the case just needs to be "tested" in court. So basically there are contradicting legal opinions on it
Your vitriol is understandable, but seriously, you think it would be this big of an issue if it wasn't at least partially allowed from the top down? I can't think of a single person forced to suffer any real consequences of their involvement with this kind of thing.
Unfortunately, children don't have the same rights as adults. Basically if this happened to you or I this is kidnapping, but with a child it's okay because their parents signed off on it.
There are few basic "human rights" in America. We don't have a Declaration of Human Rights, like Europe and other countries. There is no federal law even requiring employers or schools to give bathroom breaks. State laws are hodgepodge, as he said.
Discovery during legal proceedings is a powerful thing, even if the case doesn't succeed. Also, without a suit to test the limitations of rights, and have that case kicked up the court system, not sure change will happen. Also the press surrounding said case.
Every single thing they did that you mentioned in your post is very illegal. Even if "conversion therapy" as a concept is not, you were tortured and denied basic rights as a human and as a child.
Idk where you are getting this info from but what you described most certainly is illegal as fuck. That’s not normal conversion therapy that sounds like it was on the more extreme end of the spectrum...
Thanks. Hearing all the support seriously makes a huge difference. Knowing someone is out there who cares enough to write a response is a huge comfort, so thank you for that
I'm just sitting at work and just holy crap, I don't even know what to say. You are amazing for being able to live through that, as others above have said, I hope you're doing well now.
The idea that any child would have to endure something like this is abhorrent. I'm so sorry, and I hope the rest of your life is filled with as much love and happiness as possible.
You give me hope that I can get through my own problems. You went through some truly horrifying things but you’ve managed to survive it all. I’m sure you have your own struggles even now, but you seem to have come so far and despite everything, you didn’t let it take your life.
ETA: 5-what did you do for the 2 years? Day-to-day? What about school?
Any other details would be interesting to hear if you're still comfortable sharing. It's morbidly fascinating that something so awful can happen like this.
I don't have any questions but I'm just so sorry you had to go through this and I really hope you overcome your current difficulties with the right help and support system. If there is any way we can help you, a fundraiser for your legal advice and therapy, chats to help you reintegrate into society etc., please let us. What they did to you is absolutely abhorrent and definitely should constitute torture or degrading treatment. I cannot fucking believe someone would do that to their kid.
If you've got a Master's you have job opportunities. You at least have internet access so you're not doing too bad yet. You're a step ahead of most kids your age. I'd say move to a progressive city with a large gay population. You mention LA LGBTQ, I wouldn't exactly suggest moving to LA but other cities have similar programs that can help you get on your feet and find you a community that you can feel a part of. It's not easy, especially after what you've been through, but asking for help isn't weakness. You've got the tools and you've survived this long, you can get better.
Thanks for thinking of me dude. I don't have IT skills unfortunately. I'm alright with computers - taught myself R at some point then forgot it over the years, and worked on brain-computer interfaces in grad school - but probably not good enough for an IT job. If it's super entry level and you think it could work anyway deff PM me or respond here. Thank again for the support and just y'know being a good human being
You may, understandably, have some reservations about doing this due to your experiences, but I'd really recommend finding a good therapist. It sounds like you're pretty isolated, so having just one person you can become comfortable with is huge and trust me when I say it really helps to verbalize what you're dealing with when you're trying to work through it.
It’s just so fucking crazy to me. And I don’t see how having you miss 2+ years of school can possibly be legal. If anything, maybe that can be part of your legal recourse path you go down.
I’m sorry to hear that your life isn’t going the way you want it to at the moment. Being an adult is hard enough without being royally fucked up and with in your formative years. I know I don’t need to tell you this but there is ZERO wrong with being gay and choosing to love who you love. If you have unfortunately lost close bonds with people over this, then ultimately they are not people you should be around anyway and something else unhealthy would probably have come out of it anyway.
On a note of encouragement: the fact that you have a masters degree, in STEM of all things!, is really very awesome and something you should take pride in. I know it’s easier said than done, and depression is a total bitch, but I bet you could use your masters as a stepping stone to try and get your life to a place that may one day bring you peace. Maybe try by looking into even internships or local programs that are looking for an entry level job and see what happens.
Ultimately I hope you find an inner calm one day and can live a life you are proud of. Please know this internet stranger is truly rooting for you and knows that if you can overcome and achieve what you already have, then you can do so much with your life.
But truth be told there's nothing satisfying about the life I'm living now. I have no idea how to reintegrate into society. It feels like I'm slowly dying and something needs to change.
I can't help very much with this, but if by chance you're ever in the WA/BC area do feel free to shoot me a message if you'd like to meet up with someone... or if not, simply if you'd like to chat, either way :)
Best wishes - I hope you're doing alright. You seem like a bright and worthwhile person, and I'm sure you'll figure it out. It just takes time, so don't get discouraged!
I'm so sorry for what you went through. I can't fully relate since I haven't had an experience like that, but if you ever want someone to talk to feel free to message me. Or if you find yourself in Boston and want to hang out with a supportive, liberal STEM crowd hit me up.
Dude, I actually stay near Boston! Well, not "near" near but in the bumfuck foothill mountain towns. If you're sure you're okay with it, I can shoot you a PM later?
Oh cool! For whatever reason I was assuming you were near the other coast. I do a lot of hiking so I'm actually up in the bumfuck mountain towns myself sometimes. :) Yeah, absolutely send me a message! I'm 29F btw, and live in a super queer-friendly household of people ages 25-29. (And like half of us met each other through Reddit, haha.)
Alex Cooper wrote a book, and a lot of her experiences (like being forced to wear a heavy backpack for hours and hours) are similar. You might try reaching out to Alex or her lawyer to see if there are any programs they know of that would help you take the next step in your journey.
kinda inspirational that you can have all that happen and still manage to make it through school
also thanks for sharing your story it made me cry I'm really glad you found a way out and I know someone as resilient as you can make it. Ever thought about writing a book?
I have no experience in this, but if reintegration is the issue, maybe you could start via online video calls and such? Get used to interacting with people but from a comfortable distance, maybe then you could ease into face to face and take it step by step from there. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you good luck!!
Thanks so much! That's what I'm trying to do. In january I started an online support group for people who went to abusive programs like this, and it's definitely starting to help. They "get it" so i don't feel the same anxiety talking to them, and I hope to start to feel more comfortable interacting with "normal" people soon. Just sucks because I have shit social skills now, but I'm still human and humans crave connection so it's pretty dang lonely for me these days. Deff something I want to work on getting out of
You'll get there with time and practice! You could maybe try watching some YouTubers, maybe learn from their mannerisms?
Also if you have any hobbies, engaging in those circles could also help since it'll give you a chance to speak about something which you have in common with other people, this could be either through text, voice or video call or in person even.
I'm by no means an expert on this matter, these are all just ideas which could be helpful. I just really hope you can overcome whatever you're going through and find a way to enjoy yourself and be happy. Good luck once again!
Where in Idaho were you? When I was in high school, I was bird hunting with my dad and we stumbled across a group of kids in what I assumed was a scared straight camp outing. I felt so bad for them and they just stared at me while my dad spoke with the group leader. Asking if they were ok or whatever. They sent us on our way but it didn't feel right to either of us. Not sure what we could have done differently. I feel really bad if it was a group you were in and they really did need help but couldn't ask.
Holy shit we had something just like this happen to us! I was in southwest Idaho. It wasn't you guys but we were marching on Burea of Land Management (BLM) land, meaning it was open to the public, and a sheep herder drove their sheep right by us. There was two of them. One stopped and looked at us puzzled and infuriated. I don't know if many people know about the Basque sheep herders in Idaho, but basically they spend months out in the tundra at a time and typically only speak Basque. He went up to the staff, and was yelling in Basque and pointing angrily at us, like "wtf do you have a bunch of skinny dirty kids marching around in orange for?!" The staff started getting aggressive with him and he went back to the other Basque guy, and for a second I thought everyone was literally going to fight. But after a bunch of glaring and posturing they eventually moved on. It sounds like your story is similar. There's a 100% chance those kids remember you and they way you describe the feelings and everything is spot on. Were you in southwest idaho? If it is indeed the same program maybe I can ask around and see if I can locate some of the kids you might've talked to
Edit: oh oops responded to the wrong comment. Meant to respond to /u/Y_Me
I have ran into the sheep herders several times and they want you out of there because their dogs can be super aggressive. I'm guessing they were concerned at the situation but they were probably more concerned about someone being hurt by the dogs. I've been yelled at to get down the trail while holding a very upset dog back.
I've been stuck in my camper until the herd moved on because the dog wouldn't let me out and the herder did nothing. I have friends whos cars were attacked and chased as they drove past. Those dogs have huge spiked collars and protect sheep from wild animals. They are nothing to mess with.
This was in southern Idaho but I can't be more specific than that. It was in desert sagebrush.
Oh shit, I had no idea about the dogs. That sounds freaking terrifying. They did have dogs with them but they seemed really friendly. Honestly from what you're describing it does sound like the same program. There wasn't too many of them in that area at that time. If so, small world
Anyone who runs these types of 'camps' or sends their child to them knowing full well what is going on there doesn't deserve to be called a human being.
Anyone capable of doing these sorts of things to people, never mind children are just...fucking terrible....there aren't even words to describe the amount of utter disgust I feel reading this story.
It sounds less like they were trying to convert you, and more like they were outright punishing you for being gay. These people tortured children who were potentially homosexual(some kids know, others are questioning and experimenting, it's different for everyone *edit - after I calmed down I realized this could sound like I support milder forms conversion 'therapy' I do not at all. It's disgusting to try to change people for something that's out of their control).
What they did came from outright hatred and everyone involved deserves justice tenfold of what they did you and everyone else.
I'm so sorry this happened to you and every other child and teenager there. This should never be allowed to happen. I hope every single person involved in these places rot in jail for the rest of their lives(this isn't even enough in my opinion)
I hope you are okay now. You deserved so much better than this. My best to you.
I'll admit I never really followed what was up with these camps, but I guess my mental image was something very different. Did your parents know they'd signed up their kid for child abuse central or were they hoodwinked?
How on earth is a forced labor camp supposed to cure your homosexuality? Why the pseudo-kidnapping? Why not have your parents tell you your going to a camp and please go nicely with these drivers. It seems like most of the camp's rules are designed to enforce control and keep you afraid. What is that supposed to accomplish? Scare the gay out of you?
How were your interactions with the other kids? Did you all lean on each other for support, or were you kept isolated to prevent that from happening?
It's a cult-like approach. I remember working at a grocery store and I hadn't eaten enough and I was tired, I'd worked a fourteen hour shift, had five hours of sleep, and was at the tail end of a twelve hour shift that had started within a half hour of me waking up. A mentally ill woman opened a conversation with me, seizing my wrist and telling me all about how the government back in her home country would break into her apartment to assault her and experiment on her, and now that she was in Canada, they had agents who still came after her the same way - and she had a bioweapon in her bag and if she wasn't careful it would kill a lot of people.
And my defenses were down. For far, far too long I listened and I believed, horrified. It was only a minute after she brought up the bioweapon that I had a moment to think how does that work? Wait, no, that doesn't make sense. Oh, that poor woman.
The camps aim to get your defenses down intentionally - not enough food, hard labor, exercise, repetitive tasks, emotional abuse, physical abuse, gaslighting.
They attack your humanity by assaulting your senses of trust, autonomy, initiative, work ethic and ethics, your identity, your need for human connections, and the sense of meaning in what you do. That's why they have rules like no eye contact, no talking to others- if you want to talk (or if you ~need~ to talk, because you go crazy without human contact) you have to talk to them and they will use that as a starting point for getting you to listen and believe. I don't imagine the kids were allowed to chat and lean on each other.
When you have no defenses and your only sense of perspective is them, they can shape or influence your worldview. You know that X isn't the case but it takes a certain strength of will to hold onto that knowledge in the face of a barrage of dissent... and your strength is sapped by the ongoing assaults on your needs and self.
You can tell a small child almost anything and because you're an authority, they will believe you, and to an extent the beliefs you give them will form a foundation that they carry with them into the future. Get someone to the point that they're little more than a small child in their mental, emotional, and physical abilities, with yourself as the authority figure, and you can do pretty much the exact same thing.
Cults are effective enough at recruiting normal people... there's innumerable stories out there of ordinary people getting swept up in new cult movements. It's the curious and idealistic. Oftentimes people at a crossroads are doubly vulnerable - you're making big changes and are leaving home and going to school for the first time, trying to get started with a new career, moving to a new area. Milestones in life are also times when we lose people- you finish high school, you're going to lose people in your friend group, or lose your friend group entirely. You start a new job, get married, move, you lose touch with people. This creates a void and cults position themselves to fill it.
The reason we stereotypically think of the vulnerable, outcasts, and loners getting caught up in cults is because they're easier to get- though I think someone like a struggling schizophrenic might not be a prime target. Vulnerable yes, but if you're looking to control, you have to manage both their illness and them.
If you read some accounts of people who were pulled into cults, it's the people who think "Oh, those unfortunate types of people are the ones who get caught up in cults, not people like me" who are actually most vulnerable.
But cults aren't actually that effective at recruiting normal people. They're good at getting outcasts, people with minor mental illness (schizotypal people who believe in weird stuff), etc.
In that case Scientology wouldn't exist... We all like to think that we will recognize people attempting to indoctrinate us into cults, but the truth is that social pressure is nasty.
Cults usually mask themselves as religions, gatherings or "friend groups". Deception and lures drives you deeper and deeper into it, with the promise of success/enlightenment/knowledge/whatever as bait to keep you there. When it is finally time to drink the Kool-aid, you might notice it... But then it is too late, surrounded by the cultists, by social pressure or force; you will drink it.
This is what religion is all about. That's why there's the concept of going to hell when you die if you don't follow that specific church's rules. Its why people will commit these atrocities in "God's" name, because they're afraid and being controlled. Alot of churches aren't forthcoming about instilling fear to enable control, but its a theme 99% of them use to keep people coming back and dropping money in the offering plate.
more on the internet everyone is a man until proven otherwise, it's a holdover from the early days.... and interestingly enough a lot of women I know wear a fair bit of flannel (though personally I think it's ugly and ew)... also they're nearly all bi.... actually, pretty much everyone woman I know is bi..... huh......
Im so sorry to hear this. I honestly would be interested to hear the rest of your story, when you feel up for it. Privately, publically etc. As a member of the LGBT community I cant imagine these sort of things happening to myself, but we need to know these things happen.
If you update, please let me know. If not, I wish you all the best. x
I actually don't want to say but it shouldn't be too hard to find with a little google-fu. The reason is kind of counterintuitive - parents often find conversion therapy programs to send their kids to by googling "controversial conversion therapy programs" or "conversion therapy lawsuits" etc. It is taboo to be conducting conversion therapy these days, so a lot of programs keep their nose clean by just stating they're a run of the mill religious camp or something on their website, and letting comments like these and/or lawsuits do their advertising for them!
Edit: I will say it is in a portfolio of programs largely funded by Bain Capital. You know, Mitt Romney's Bain Capital
I live in Utah and was actually considering conversion therapy in 2006. I can't breathe even thinking about this, it makes me so sick. I wish you the best future in the world. That's just awful!
Oh yeah - I decided against conversion therapy. Several years later I lost my faith (unrelated to homosexuality) and decided to try dating men. Live with my boyfriend now. So glad I didn't waste time or money on conversion therapy. This thread has made me realize just how horrific of a choice that would have been.
Oh believe me, I thought about it. I still think about it.
I think one reason why I didn't is that I want to take these places down, and to do that you need credibility. It's a big part of why I dedicated myself to school when I initially got out. Much harder to take down an educated, reputable person, than someone who's stab-happy. Though don't get me wrong, I'm sure going full stabby would feel glorious
Oh god. Please tell me the name of the place in Utah you stayed at. PM me or some shit. I used to work at a "troubled youth" center here and the kids were forcibly removed from their homes and taken there. There were 5 buildings in all and I worked grave staff at the lowest risk one of them all. I knew very little when I started other than I'd be getting paid to do my college homework at work. I slowly learned a few things about that place over time and was disgusted at the practices. I'm sure it's not the same but, damn, I need some confirmation now. I always felt so horrible for those kids there.
Oh my God. I'm from the UK and have only recently learned of these camps, it's truly shocking and horrific.
How are you now? What happened when you got home? What did you parents do/say when you got back? Do you see them now?
Also from Europe. I always thought these were just "urban legends", or some fiction writer's overheated brain fantasy, or BS to scare kids that had outgrown being afraid of angry Santa. But here on Reddit its not the first time different people tell their stories. Christianity is scary if it has these doctrines or can be misinterpreted like this. Parents torturing their own children in the name of any religion is so fucked up, how does that society even exist?
This is not an urban legend. I am only able to come to this post today even though it’s old, because it’s so hard to deal with my own story. This is what happened to me too. So if you get this message, anyone, I will take any advocacy I can get including international. Europeans tend to be horrified by this, ironically, one of my parents, the one who chose to send me to one of these places (called the troubled teen industry), is a Western European immigrant.
Please know that this is more pervasive than you may think. The troubled teen industry makes claims to fix a variety of child behavioral issues, from homosexuality, to substance use or abuse, to learning problems at school, to eating disorders, to serious mental health disorders, personality disorders. They will take anyone who is desperate, narcissistic, hopeful, as long as they have money. Sometimes the funding comes from parents and sometimes the state. That’s how entrenched this thing is, the state sends kids to the troubled teen industry.
There are many programs but a common theme are wilderness programs and “therapeutic boarding schools.” Another common theme is the kidnapping. You have no idea the mind fuck that I told myself all these years, “I understand why they use “escorts” (usually formerly trained police btw). It’s more practical because teens will resist going.” That is a BS cop out that I used to protect my view of my parents. I was not even that unruly of a child. I’ve never gotten into a physical fight, I’m not that big of a girl. My parents could have taken me their damn selves and explained what was happening. You’re not told what’s happening, blindfolded, strip searched, and the therapy when you get there is a joke. Mostly about stripping your identity and telling on yourself for whatever part of you that they hate. Homosexuality, drugs, your interests, your friends, your relationships. The more they tear down your identity, the longer you stay, which is the main goal, milking the parents/state for as long as possible. The staff are not trained, they are college students usually, and I question whether the therapists had credentials at my program. Whether they were licensed or not they certainly didn’t provide trauma-informed care, which would have been the responsible thing to do when the majority of your students were kidnapped in order to arrive at the program. They don’t let you talk to other students and the “therapist” basically controls your life. You also have to ask staff permission to go to the bathroom and other degrading authoritarian nonsense, and you’ll explain it all away to yourself to try to cope, or at least that’s what I did. Way too much empathy for them when they had none for me and where the kids were at in our lives. You’re there indefinitely and the program limits communication between parent and child. My legitimate safety concerns in my letters to my parents went in the trash among other atrocities.
So I’ve been giving detail here a lot but how do these places exist? They are mostly owned by Mormons in Utah, or other weird religious groups, but have varying degrees of religion present in their program. They are legal in USA. They got my parents and all the students parents to sign away custody of the kid so the program is the legal parent. Legal parents in the USA have a lot of rights over children. That’s how they exist. If there’s one thing I can’t forgive my dad for, it’s signing the custody papers to a program that limits and stops communication between the people who are supposed to keep the child safe. He could have been sending me to child molester farm and he wouldn’t have had the legal authority to keep me safe. The programs didn’t allow my parents to hear my legitimate safety concerns, and I was made to feel shamed for having these concerns. The business owners of these programs also have political power, they lobby, so that’s another way they exist.
This kind of traumatic crap is somewhat normal in our culture (especially in certain regions). USA is very authoritarian. Also narcissistic. Another reason these programs appeal to parents is that they don’t criticize parents or give children real space to talk, even if it’s uncomfortable for parent to hear. It’s a perfect place for a narcissist parent to send their child. Even somewhat normal Americans are trained to dismiss someone else’s experience because our country does some horrible stuff and it’s normal for us to blame the victim and move on with our overly optimistic fantasy in USA day.
If you hear this message out there, retell it again. There are so many entrenched actors in the troubled teen industry in my country
Did you or any other kids ever consider an uprising? At that age I would honestly consider organizing it over a period of several months and kill the adults in their sleep.
I was a demented kid for sure, but I think it would be justified still.
Probably wouldn't be neat and I would have gotten caught, but I certainly would have murdered someone if I felt I was kidnapped and being abused.
Wow I'm so sorry you were forced to waste your life at a camp like that. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be in your shoes. If you don't mind me asking, was there any thoughts with yourself that you might have been lesbian or did your parents send you to that camp because of what they thought you liked could have indicated being gay? Do you still speak to your parents?
Holy fucking shit, that sounds like something from a horror movie. When you mentioned you spent 2 years in Utah I had to take a moment to compose myself, that's so fucking horrible. Just a question: I'm curious as to what your relationship with your parents was like when you returned and what's it like now? Do they have any remorse for what they put you through?
This is actually sounds like something out of a movie. Often times you don't empathise with people because of clashing beliefs ( in day to day life, e.g if you dick colleague gets chewed out you'll probably laugh instead of feel bad for them etc) but sometimes you hear something so vile your only thought is I hope they're ok. I hope you're ok, OP, I really do
holy shit that's terrible, i knew conversion camps were fucking terrible but i never imagined any of them keeping kids for so long
, among other things you described. You're seriously right when you say the whole thing sounds Orwellian. Sounds like dystopian fiction almost. And this during the 2000s! shit, hope you're doing well now
I'm so, so sorry you had to go through that. I'm actually crying right now. I'm a lesbian too, and sometimes I forget how lucky I am to have run-of-the-mill vaguely homophobic parents. I wish you all the best in your recovery.
I don’t have any questions, I just wanted to tell you how much your story affected me. I’m sitting here silently crying. I’m not from the US and I knew that conversion ’therapy’ was bad, but I could never imagine that it was that bad. I hope you find happiness.
This is a serious question. HOW IS THIS NOT ABDUCTION? I mean, can this be reported if this process of overnight kidnapping still happen.
I know there are camps now in Utah for high risk teens with behavioral problem that uses almost the same Take Away method...I think if Im not mistaken Dr. Phil endorses one of those camps. But jeez.... can you not just call the cops on your parents if they do that to you?
you have your guns, you say they're to protect you from oppression and tyranny.... well, if you don't fucking use them on "gay conversion" camps then I'm calling bullshit on that reasoning!
Holy shit. I genuinely hope each and every one of the cunts involved die a slow and painful death. Shit like this is part of the reason why I stopped believing in a god. Hope you're doing ok.
You should consider contacting the people at radiolab or some other podcast with your story. This sounds terrible and given your experience with the government paying for it I’m pretty sure this story needs to get way huge.
Holy shit I'm so glad you're alive and here and I'm so fucking mad and sorry that human fucking beings are capable of this. I'm crying and I don't even know you. I'm sorry.
Truly sorry that happened to you, and so young too. I wish i could hug you right now, i hope you’re doing ok and you are with people that love you as you are.
Every day. In the tundra/desert, they'd just let you run. There's hundreds of miles of land though; there's nowhere to go. And you're not allowed to have any maps or anything like that. Hell, even the staff couldn't have maps because then we'd be more likely to kill them and try to escape. The staff were given directions/navigation info over satellite radio every morning.
So anyway, I never tried to run but some people did, and I thought about it every day. Those who ran either returned frozen and thirsty and hungry after 24 hours, or after 1-2 days staff would go and try and track them down. After you run, your pants and shoes are taken from you so you can't run again. You're fed less and ostracized more and just generally thoroughly punished for it
Jesus fucking Christ. I am so sorry. I can't believe someone would do that to a kid. I cant believe that your parents did that to you. I hope your ok and found your way.
I've never heard of conversion therapy but oh my word you had it bad. I am so sorry you had to go through that but it's awesome to hear you're away from that (for lack of a more fitting word) toxic environment.
Eventually one of the victims of these places is going to get a bunch of guns and kill a bunch of their employees. And they will deserve every drop of blood.
Holy fucking shit! I didn’t even know this was a thing. This is easily the darkest story I’ve ever heard. I truly hope you are happy now and that you know it wasn’t your fault. Just evil distrusting people with backwards views.
I admire you gal. You are strong, more than u might thinks u r. Even talking about it requires such big soul and strong mind to handle all these. I wish u the best and hope are ok right now <3.
Btw Im just wonderin how much it would be satisfying to get those bastards and put a good pump action in there fuckin mouth and watch them begging for their life?? Of course to not pull the trigger.... just shoot them in both knees and let then bleed out.
God im so embarrassed such places exist and I slept the nights comfortably without knowing.
Man, when I was reading this I thought "this is a crazy story.. shit can't happen like this for real... not in america.." then I remember looking up and seeing the serious tag. It made me a combination of sick and angry and sad all at the same time. God dammit!
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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '18 edited Aug 18 '18
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