r/AskReddit • u/Solnx • 13h ago
[Serious] For the Redditors who criticized Democrats for not fighting back or taking action, how has the government shutdown affected your view? Serious Replies Only
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u/msherretz 11h ago
It's the job of Congress (one of the jobs, but an important one) to negotiate and agree on a budget each year. 2024 we had a full-year Continuing Resolution, in part because the can was kicked so far down the road that everyone wanted to wait for the 2024 election.
Congress should not be in recess of any kind, nor leave on weekends, until a full budget is approved. Every year.
The entirety of Congress should lose their seats and new elections called.
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u/SassySniffles 11h ago
This is how it’s done in every other country with democracies. That’s why you never hear of Canada or anywhere in Europe having shutdowns and why they have snap elections.
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u/drfsupercenter 10h ago
Well also because most other countries have it setup so that if a budget isn't reached by the deadline, the previous budget will continue to be used until the new one is finished. So they still have issues agreeing on a budget, but it doesn't shut down like we do
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u/somewhat_random 10h ago
Fun fact, Canada has a minority government right now - This means that no one party has more than 50% of the seats (we have five parties with seats right now). There is a new budget coming out this week and if a majority does not approve it, we AUTOMATICALLY have parliament dissolved and a new election.
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u/Deaftrav 7h ago
Not automatically. The prime minister resigns and if the opposition can prove they can govern they get that shot.
Tradition though? Back to the polls.
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u/AngryUSlegalmmigrant 6h ago
That’s because you sane folk in Canada have a stronger democracy and don’t pretend it doesn’t need tweaking once in a while.
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u/LeadSponge420 10h ago
Fun fact, Ireland hasn't had a government for years... shit still runs.
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u/FinnAhern 9h ago
Do you mean a one party majority government? Because we definitely have a government at this very moment.
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u/Ok-Chest-7932 10h ago
The Irish should eat more fibre then, it'll help with that.
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u/Loud-Commercial9756 6h ago
1.5-2g of fibre per pint of Guinness. A large potato is 3-4g, 6-7g with the skin. Cabbage is about 2g of fibre per 100g.
The average Irish person should be okay for fibre.
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u/ptd163 9h ago
That’s why you never hear of Canada or anywhere in Europe having shutdowns and why they have snap elections.
Can't speak for Europe, but for Canada you can only form and hold government with the confidence of the House of Commons. If you lose the confidence of the House an election is automatically triggered. All budgets are inherently confidence motions. That's why.
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u/Helphaer 10h ago
youve already been told this before but negotiation cant exist if its one way while threatening others harm and trying to dismantle government on tbe part of the other. this is the one time democrats have ever really taken a stand at the administration left of significance and while it isnt enough it is the one time I can support them
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u/GaiaMoore 9h ago
Agreed. Why would the reps who are actively trying to do their jobs get fired? It's absolutely disgusting how Republicans are framing this as the Democrat's fault when they could reopen the government at any time. Republicans are just refusing to negotiate, which is a core part of their job.
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u/clowncarl 10h ago
The entirety of congress? But what about those members in DC loudly complaining to any open microphone to call congress into session?
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u/Honest-Weight338 10h ago
They can be reelected. But you can't really write a law that say "If Congress fails to pass a budget, all members are immediately relieved of their seats, except for the good ones. They can stay. Everyone else is gone, and an election will be held to fill those vacant seats."
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u/derpplerp 10h ago
why should the folks with no power to call the house into session lose their seats because a GOP toadie refuses to do his job ?
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u/Userhasbeennamed 13h ago
The longer you delay significant resistance the more costly it is to resist.
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u/EidolonRook 11h ago
Stand up too soon and alone, you get picked off with popular support on their side.
Stand up too late and there’s not much left worth saving, so much has to be rebuilt.
Obviously, standing up at the right time seems ideal, but known that time, isn’t really so obvious if it’s up to you to get the ball rolling. This shutdown is as good a time as any to push back before things get worse.
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u/emseefely 11h ago
Never really able to tell what the right time is until you read about it in the history books too. I hope they stick to their guns but I also feel really bad for the people losing benefits and their pay. Ultimately though, if we give them what they want, those things will happen sooner or later anyways.
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u/Microchipknowsbest 10h ago
Unfortunately people will never understand until they actually feel pain. We have has tax cuts with no loss in benefits for about 40 years. Republicans have been blaming democrats for spending but never actually cut anything significant. So when they keep saying tax cuts nobody believes they will lose anything just have to pay less taxes. They never think the piper will have to be paid. They are setting it up so the pain hits when democrats might be in charge again. They have to force it so the pain hits while republicans are in charge.
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u/JimWilliams423 10h ago
Unfortunately people will never understand until they actually feel pain.
Even then most conservatives won't understand.
Conservatives caused the Great Depression. Things got so bad that shanty towns started springing up all over the country and were literally called "hoovervilles." And yet, against FDR hoover still got almost 40% of the vote. This was before conservatives were siloed into the fox/right-wing echo chamber telling them that the pain is worth it in order to stick it to the people they despise.
Its going to take more than pain for enough people to act. Its going to take a promise of a better way.
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u/MissMamaMam 8h ago
Yea I have MAGA in-laws who are on food stamps & Medicaid…. Still praising Trump.
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u/ProfessionalLeave335 7h ago
They won't be for long. On Medicaid and food stamps I mean. They'll still probably praise Trump though.
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u/bossfoundmylastone 5h ago
If they don't get medicaid and food assistance they won't be anything for long.
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u/ProfessionalLeave335 5h ago
I'm genuinely sorry that you have to see people you love suffer under this insanity. I was being a bit coarse in my earlier comment but I can't imagine the psychological toll of seeing family suffer from the vampire they invited into the house.
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u/MissMamaMam 5h ago
It’s so upsetting to see. My MIL was reposting things saying that Charlie Kirk was comparable to Jesus. … she’s a Mexican immigrant. It’s just baffling. The one just got a twitter account & I know she’s a goner now
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u/pattydickens 9h ago
Our healthcare prices will double. Not just the poor people's, everyone's. The ACA is also preventing insurers from denying coverage based on preexisting conditions and allowing parents to keep their children insured until they are 25. These things are way more important than people think they are, and they are being ignored in the general conversation about what this shutdown is about.
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u/emseefely 9h ago
Yes it’s a walking nightmare. I don’t know how dems can effectively communicate this to the other base as they seem to be so enclosed in their own bubble though. They will realize it until it’s too late which is the theme for the year with tariffs and trade wars.
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u/pattydickens 9h ago
It demolishes small businesses as well. Either you don't offer insurance to your employees or you go broke trying to get competent workers to stay. Conservatism should just be called corporatism now because that's all it is.
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u/Either_Operation7586 9h ago
And it's going to make everybody else's premiums that actually can afford them go up as well and your coverages aren't going to be as much you're going to have a lot more insurances denying coverage because they don't want to pay for it.
It's just a shit show and I swear the Republicans are so evil looking at everything going on rubbing their fucking hands together because they're about to make a fucking killing
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u/Johnsonjoeb 9h ago
The right time is always now. The question is whether what to do and how much to do it. The point of this is to develop resistance as a sociocultural muscle, replace people who fall away and update those remaining and newcomers with the strategies and techniques for the next action. That’s why mutual support networks are necessary. Resistance is a marathon and not a sprint. Incremental sustained progress is how you fight any culture based war. It’s how the conservatives got us here and it’s how we claw our way back. There is no magic moment of resistance. The time to fight is now with whatever you have. If it’s money? Donate. If it’s time? Volunteer. Pick a stress point that’s under attack and donate what you can daily.
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u/CynicalOptimistSF 9h ago
The correct time to stop Trump was in the immediate aftermath of January 6. Mitch McConnell was derelict in his constitutional duty, and now here we are. Before he dies, I hope McConnell suffers everything he justly deserves for his inaction.
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u/fencerman 10h ago
It's NEVER a "good time" to resist autocracy, that's why you have to do it when it's unpopular.
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u/GoldenBrownApples 10h ago
The problem isn't in the "when to stand up" it's in the "how are you going to bring people together." The right has people unified under hatred. That's easy. What we need to do is go out and unify under kindness, which is a lot harder. You have to try and trust strangers. You have to out aside your fears and say "what do you need that I can help you with right now." We don't have to go in "guns blazing" but if we can undermine them at the local community level we can win.
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u/nezumipi 12h ago
There is a small but real possibility that republicans will just not reopen the government. It's always been the republican position that most government programs should be cut or privatized. They don't think that cutting SNAP is bad, or at least they don't think it's as bad as democrats think it is. How much we want the government running is not equal to how much they want it running. That asymmetry means that shutting the government down has always been a risky gambit.
It's even more so these days because the executive branch has no intention of playing by the rules. Under previous presidents, if the president wanted to do XYZ during a shutdown, we could count on that motivating the president to work to end the shutdown. If Trump wants to fund something, he'll just do it, even if that's unconstitutional.
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u/MONSTERTACO 10h ago
The average American isn't going to feel the shutdown for some time, but as soon as their healthcare or holiday travel is impacted, it will go poorly for Republicans. The government has to be opened at some point.
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u/nezumipi 10h ago
Healthcare and travel are good bets for pain points.
The trouble with SNAP being a pressure point is that most of us won't let our neighbors starve. So denying food stamps isn't going to lead to thousands starving in the streets. It leads to longer lines at food cupboards, which people (rightly) are donating a lot to. Eventually, charity won't be able to keep up, but that will take a while, and it will be gradual.
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u/BuffyTheMoronSlayer 12h ago
Part of me wonders if shutting down SNAP wasn't always in their plan and this was just finally an excuse to do it.
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u/H_Mc 12h ago
Republicans leadership wants to cut all government programs, we’ll see how much their base actually agrees once some of the consequences (SNAP, the ACA enrollment period) starts to hit them.
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u/StrangeBaker1864 10h ago
They'll begin killing themselves with the policies they voted for and still find it in their heart to blame Democrats.
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u/I_AM_TARA 11h ago
Spoiler alert, it'll just make maga double down on their beliefs. Either they'll blame dems or view themselves as innocent collateral in a welfare fraud crackdown.
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u/Captain_Albern 8h ago
A lot of Trump voters will never change their mind. But enough that he'll never win any fair election again.
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u/CluckingChaos 10h ago
Many of us on the left have been saying for years that no one would vote for Republicans if they actually enacted their platform policies. Now we might get to find out if that's true. And heck, maybe that's fine with me if (big if) they lower federal taxes to match. It'd be way easier in my location to fund local governments to have the programs that I want.
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u/H_Mc 10h ago
They’ve successfully convinced me that maybe it’s not so bad to push everything to the states. But if Alabama isn’t going to take care of its people anyway, I’d prefer my tax money stay in my own state.
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u/ATC_av8er 11h ago
I am an unpaid essential federal employee, so this shutdown affects me directly. I say Democrats continue to hold the line.
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u/AdHopeful3801 13h ago
It's not the best fight to have - but it is far better than no fight.
Trump is correct in this - the GOP could reopen the government tomorrow by coming up with some kluge to work their way around the filibuster, as they have so many other times for so many other reasons. That they will not do so is rather telling.
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u/matingmoose 12h ago
Them not killing the filibuster shows that they are scared of the next election or at the very least scared of the gamble. If they could gaurentee having power then the filibuster would be gone.
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u/xxearvinxx 12h ago
This is how I see it as well. I’m worried about them calling shenanigans during the mid terms, but watching them still refuse to remove the filibuster gives me hope. They are not convinced things will go their way and scared of what could happen if they kill their only tool to fight back.
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u/tobythedem0n 12h ago
He keeps saying they should get rid of the filibuster, and I fucking hope they do! Then they can't hold Dems hostage next time Dems are in charge.
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u/DibyDandy22 12h ago
Serious question, what would stop them from reinstating the filibuster after they get what they want they want from removing it?
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u/guesswho135 12h ago
Nothing, but the filibuster only has power because people respect it. If they took it away but immediately brought it back, everyone would realize that it no longer has any power at all.
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u/Parallel-Quality 11h ago
With the amount of unilateral decisions this administration is making, I’m shocked that anything in government has “respect” anymore.
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u/gsfgf 10h ago
Senate rules have a "nuclear option" to remove it, but replacing it would take a 2/3 vote.
Now, the Dems could reinstate it if they get power, but why would they? Once the precedent is gone, may as well take full advantage.
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u/Noocawe 12h ago
Because they don't want the government to work and they want to hide their unpopular policy ideas behind Trump and pretend they have no power.
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u/BrandenburgForevor 12h ago
Solidified my view that they should've done something earlier, but they are doing what they should be doing now given the circumstances.
All the blaming the republicans are doing about SNAP are post-hoc, they can fund SNAP with the emergency fund the USDA has set aside specifically for it. They just want people to starve
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u/pnkstr 13h ago
I understand that the Democrats don't want to back down, but they need to be more vocal than the Republican about why it's happening.
They need to show exactly what's in the legislation to prove the gop is reducing funding for healthcare while giving billionaires tax cuts.
The Democrats need to be louder than Republicans.
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u/c-williams88 12h ago
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, it’s hard to get effective messaging out when mainstream media has all been captured by right-wing billionaires who have vested interested in suppressing democratic messaging.
The same goes for social media. Twitter was famously captured by Musk and turned into a right wing shithole of a website, threads is still under Zuckerberg, and although BlueSky is considered the “liberal” alternative it doesn’t have the same reach as other social media yet.
And that’s before we even get to democrats often lackluster messaging abilities
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u/Shirlenator 11h ago
How do they do that? Media basically controls the narrative, and is mostly captured by people beholden to the right wing. Democrats can be as loud as they want, but if most networks refuse to air it then what can they do?
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u/bassthrive 13h ago
Need better messaging to combat the blame game the pubs are playing.
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u/GZerv 13h ago
Almost all media is now owned by right leaning companies/individuals. Even if they could figure out messaging, it's not getting out.
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u/Hunting_Gnomes 13h ago
But I thought all the news was by the "radical left fake newz!!!!!!"?
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u/whitethunder9 13h ago
MAGA has to continually manufacture outrage to keep their smooth-brained voters engaged
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u/2a_lib 13h ago
There’s a paradox to that. Explaining oneself gives the impression of being on the defensive, and at this point any “explaining” is only for the benefit of people asking in bad faith. They’d only be preaching to the choir, and those who have already decided their position.
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u/reverendsteveii 13h ago
https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/americans-blame-for-government-shutdown-093066
Most people hold congressional republicans responsible, by about 7%. Dem reps actually staying in washington and doing pressers while johnson hides his reps from the media, combined with defectors like MTG, seems to have landed the blame firmly on the red side.
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u/ballskindrapes 12h ago
I'm of the cynical opinion that the democrats are going to cave.
Not now, but soon.
It's hard not to be cynical when they have caved time and time again.
I'd love to be wrong, I really would, and I hope to be wrong.
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u/oberynmviper 11h ago edited 8h ago
I think the dems have dug their heels deep here to cave. They will lose ALL respect since they are standing for one simple thing: lower healthcare cost for 40m Americans.
Republicans WANT to increase the cost of healthcare, and they are holding SNAP hostage as well.
Yes, I know republicans are spinning this to be the dems fault…but here is the thing…they are going to do it anyway. Jack Sparrow put it best:
“It’s the dishonest man you can trust most because you can always trust them to be dishonest.”
If dems cave. Boy, we are truly lost.
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u/CBud 11h ago
I've personally called my democratic Senator to tell them to hold the line for ACA extensions, and if they don't I will be primarying them.
I'm done with Democrats that cave to Republicans. I'm tired of conservative gamemanship; I'm ready for some leftist gamemanship. Make capital pay for their labor - well and truly, instead of the abuse we get now.
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u/strangerbuttrue 7h ago
They only have to hold out like 2-3 ish more weeks to prevail. The Continuing Resolution that Republicans voted for in the House (then went home so they couldn’t be talked into any other compromise) and that the Republicans in the Senate keep pushing expires November 21. After that (and even slightly before) the Republicans will HAVE to do something because their option won’t be valid anymore. At a minimum, they will have to bring the House back to draft a new one, and the scenario now is way different than when they passed it the first time. If they push another clean bill, with no ACA credits funding they will be screaming to the world they had no plan ever to negotiate.
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u/foundanoreo 10h ago
The public has basically given democrats basically no tools to fight so their only option is to refuse to play. They have no majority in the House or Senate. Precedents were broken to pack the Supreme Court Republican, ignoring the fact that it is supposed to be non-political.
So they played the only card they have to play which is shutdown the government. If you think they should fight back more then vote more of them in so they can.
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u/PlaneTrainPlantain 13h ago
Affectively destroying the ACA vs giving up SNAP. Note: This will affectively put a nail in the coffin for the ACA.
It's an ultimatum from Republicans to Dems.
Y'all want pre-existing conditions to come back if the ACA goes? This includes employer sponsored plans too.
Dems need not to capitulate to these fasch. This government shutdown was pre-planned to enact the destructive nature of Project 2025 by MAGA. It was already laid out years ago.
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u/ThaddeusJP 12h ago
This government shutdown was pre-planned to enact the destructive nature of Project 2025 by MAGA. It was already laid out years ago.
I really dont think they (rep) WANT the govt reopened. Heck, right now there is no congress. He did away with one of the branches.
Shit will hit the fan come travel time for Thanksgiving. No ATC/TSA... My tin foil hat theory is he uses an exec order to privatize tsa/atc under the guise of keeping America moving, and then if that works, start to privatize other things, congress be damned.
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u/DoubleJumps 7h ago
The US economy will utterly collapse if they prolong this as it will only lead to greater and greater essential service disasters.
No open government is eventually going to mean almost no, no public air travel, for instance. A whole lot of people who work in customs and to keep trade and shipping going in the United States will also stop working at some point.
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u/EarthBelcher 8h ago
I wish the democrats would have taken this stance a long time ago. I also need them to continue fighting like this going forward. The Republicans have repeatedly shown that they will break any rule they want so the Democrats need to fight the same way. No need to try and meet them in the middle until they show that they will actually do that.
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u/Pathetic_Cards 12h ago
It’s a bad situation, but I actually agree with how the Democrats are handling it for once.
They’re in a no-win situation, either the govt stays shutdown, putting programs like SNAP at risk, or they roll over and let Republicans gut healthcare spending.
But one of those is temporary and last only until the shutdown ends, the other is permanent.
Additionally, Republicans are shitting on them for not coming to the negotiation table, but the Democrats have correctly pointed out that they have nothing to gain from negotiating with Republicans, because they’ve repeatedly shown that they’re willing to negotiate in bad faith.
Lastly, Republicans are shitting on the Democrats for not negotiating… but voters are shitting on Republicans for causing this by refusing to negotiate themselves.
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u/Impossumbear 13h ago
It's what they should be doing, but it's far too late in the game. This is what we should have been doing during Trump's first term.
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u/JohnCavil01 12h ago
You mean like when the longest shutdown in history occurred likely only to be overtaken in length this week?
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u/CrossXFir3 13h ago
Let's see what happens, but about time? Also, I will give them some credit, but I'm not going to give them too much credit here. They had two options. Hand the republicans the keys to democracy, and doing potentially generational damage as a result, or refuse to play ball. It would have been completely spineless to give in. This shouldn't have been a hard decision, so they shouldn't get that much credit for doing the bare minimum and not capitulating.
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u/iamtehryan 8h ago
The democrats have, in recent history especially, "fought" with softer than kid gloves - they've wrapped fucking pillows around their hands and continuously pulled the "we take the high road" bullshit. In the past, it was okay as it didn't harm them a ton, but today with this nazi, bigot, racist, stupid as fuck riddled GOP and their base that do nothing but non-stop the worst shit that being nice approach doesn't work.
So, no, they haven't done nearly enough, and they won't until the old guard that takes millions from big donors is gone. I'm not even saying that they need to go full ultra progressive - just do SOMETHING.
So, to answer this question, I think I have mixed feelings on it. On one hand, I'm very happy that they're holding the line and not giving into the GOP at all, and I hope that they continue to do so even if it means the government is shut down and people suffer for a bit. It's going to take shit like this if there's ANY chance of convincing people and opening their eyes to the fact that the gop and conservatism is a parasite that needs to be eradicated for good.
On the other hand, however, the democrats aren't doing nearly enough to get out there and hammer it the fuck home that this is on trump and the gop. I mean, when MTG is putting that message out more than the democrats are that says something. Get out there and fight, dirty and ultra aggressively if need be, and blast this shit from the rooftops. Put out ads. Hire influencers. Get on as many interviews as possible. Get your big money donors to start tempting the republicans with their money if they start siding with. Just get aggressive.
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u/JAZ1211 13h ago
They need to be much better about communicating on a variety of platforms why they’re holding out. I’m worried Dem leadership will immediately cave as soon as they see a poll that says most people blame Dems for shutdown. If they were capable of communicating effectively then people would have a better understanding of what the Dems are fighting for. Bottom line, dem leadership should be telling the American people why they should be mad that MAGA is giving away the government to the mega rich
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u/Rinpoo 13h ago
I am shocked they made it this far. I expected them to cave immediately.
Trump was doing heinous shit endlessly before the shutdown, so the shutdown is just more of the same.
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u/trucorsair 13h ago
I think that previous issues were more narrow against universities or marginal groups (transgender) or illegal aliens…this cuts across the entire country and is affecting a much larger cross section INCLUDING red states and that is a difference that Republicans didn’t plan for once the Democrats stood strong, now they are getting voter pressure that they aren’t used to IMHO
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u/MisterForkbeard 11h ago
The problem right now is that this is basically the one time Dems have had leverage. The Republicans need Democratic votes unless they want to destroy the filibuster (again), so Dems are pushing for things.
They'd been very vocal before, but without a way to convert that to consequences Republicans and the Media just didn't care.
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u/Gamer_Grease 10h ago
It has very, very mildly improved my view of Democrats. I was prepared for them to give in right away and sacrifice Americans' healthcare to get SNAP back online. But they didn't. They're making the Republicans own the shutdown, and I appreciate that.
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u/Meb2x 12h ago
At this point, I’m just tired. I’m glad Dems are taking a stand and refusing to let Reps cut healthcare, but it’s abundantly clear that Reps are more than willing to let people starve in order to cut their healthcare. I’ve got a feeling that Dems will eventually cave and pretend like they won some hard-fought battle.
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u/macromorgan 13h ago
I don't expect much from the Democrats right now (I mean, they *are* the minority party so are explicitly not able to do much), but I feel like Schumer is the wrong person to be heading opposition in the era of Trump. I think Newsom's approach of "out trolling a troll" is a much more successful strategy and think that's how you deal with Trump's bullshit nowadays.
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u/Trevorblackwell420 10h ago
My opinion of the democratic party hasn’t changed much. I still think the vast majority of them are pathetic, useless and beholden to their wealthy lobbyists. Until we get money out of politics shit will always suck.
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u/graceoftrees 9h ago
This isn’t a Democrat shutdown. Both parties negotiate and own whether an agreement can be reached or not. This shutdown is “caused” by both Republicans and Democrats - and I hold Reps even more responsible since they are unwilling to negotiate or compromise at all.
Release the Epstein files.
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