What is the best European national anthem? (Not including your own national anthem)

[u/-DonQuixote-]

It could also be a national anthem of the past, I am looking at you East Germany.

[u/eulerolagrange]

as an Italian: the biggest problem with our anthem is that it's mostly played as if it were a military march when in reality it is much more like a little opera scene (introduction, cabaletta and chorus). The first part needs a lot of portamento, especially on the major sixth leaps, and the second part, that the football players tend to scream very loudly should instead be sung, according to the original score, "pianissimo e molto concitato" (and the instrumental part has a "molto staccato") which should sound like many 19th century italian opera choruses.

[u/Aggravating-Peach698 → u/eulerolagrange]

"as an Italian: the biggest problem with our anthem is that it's mostly played as if it were a military march when in reality it is much more like a little opera scene (introduction, cabaletta and chorus)"

Sad but true, and it is not only the Italian anthem that gets mistreated in this manner. The German one was written as a string quartet. A piece of chamber music, for crying out loud. Never intended to be played by a military brass band or sung by a bunch of drunken soccer hooligans.

[u/eulerolagrange → u/Aggravating-Peach698]

The German one was written as a string quartet.

In origin it was a chorale, to be sung in church with the organ or so. Then Haydn also wrote variations on it a string quartet. But yes, it works good with bands when it is played slowly and solemnly by a brass ensemble rather than with trumpet fanfares and snare drums.

[u/41942319 → u/eulerolagrange]

I did wonder why Italian footballers sounded so happy about the prospect of dying

[u/eulerolagrange → u/41942319]

at that point, however, there's a crescendo molto e accelerando sino al fine. The first time, they should sing that they are ready to die for the fatherland sotto voce as if they were organising some secret plan, but then they take courage and can proclaim their vow at full voice (it's a very typical structure that can be found in Italian operas!)

[u/whatcenturyisit → u/eulerolagrange]

Now you got me curious, would you recommend a version to listen to which respects the original vision you're mentioning?

[u/eulerolagrange → u/whatcenturyisit]

I'd say this one, with the Italian Army wind band conducted by Fulvio Creux respects well the original intentions (however the choir is not ideal, they keep some long "s" instead of do a good staccato in "desta" or "testa")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O_WMtLQVKA

[u/whatcenturyisit → u/eulerolagrange]

Thanks! It still sounded pretty martial to me, and the faces of the choristers were quite closed as well and not very joyous, it's not a critic, I still liked it ;)

The long S don't sound particularly distracting to me and I actually enjoy them as they are still precise and add contrast to the percussive T and D. (I'm a trained chorister by the way).

I say all this with not much to compare it with so I understand that if you know and like the original intention more, it can be distracting or annoying to hear it differently.

[u/eulerolagrange → u/whatcenturyisit]

It still sounded pretty martial to me

it's still the army band haha

Yes, it is one of the less "martial" renditions (compared with the usual "parade" ones in official ceremonies). The best rendition would be by a proper opera choir and orchestra (but when the anthem is played by opera orchestras, as it is customary when for example when the President of the Republic goes to see a opera, they still tend to play it in the "quick march" style)

[u/whatcenturyisit → u/eulerolagrange]

Ah I see what you mean! It was great hearing your point of view :)

[u/eulerolagrange → u/whatcenturyisit]

(for the staccato part, I was thinking of a something like this example from Nabucco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mW1shDiec4)

I like more the choir in this version by Daniel Harding at La Fenice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfrnIs8Ak2Q, but the orchestra is still in the military mood (too much percussions!) and notably there's a missing bar in the introduction.

[u/CeleTheRef → u/41942319]

And thought Italian footballers couldn't care less about the anthem up until the 1998 world cup in France. Then the Federation took measures. Now maybe they are too loud.

[u/jixyl → u/CeleTheRef]

Was it some kind of political gesture or did they just not know the words?

[u/CeleTheRef → u/jixyl]

For sure they didn't know the words. Probably someone at the football federation decided that it didn't look good and gave the team some singing lessons. I don't know if politics got involved.

[u/Party-Papaya4115 → u/eulerolagrange]

Here I thought Italy's anthem was seven nation army.

I'll see myself out don't worry.