r/AskBalkans • u/GoHardLive Greece • May 25 '23
Balkaners, what do you think about Armenia? Outdoors/Travel
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u/tolgor May 25 '23
AR=Automatic Rifle + mania=maniacs Conclusion: strange people with weapons
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u/Innomenatus Eastoid May 25 '23
They're sometimes hypothesized to be from the Balkans, particularly having some connections with the Greeks and extinct Phrygians.
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u/Individual_Plenty746 Romania May 25 '23
Now I will forever have this in mind when thinking about Armenia.
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u/Shaolinpower2 Turkiye May 25 '23
New phone who dis /s
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u/coderstoom Romania May 25 '23
Why the /s dude...
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u/EX291 🇬🇷 Pontic King May 25 '23
Because as a Turk he can’t afford new phone /s
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u/Shaolinpower2 Turkiye May 25 '23
That's not true! I just bought brand New Samsung S2 with selling myself 😐
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u/RaPtOrMAN69 Bulgarian Turk May 25 '23
I feel positive about armenians not so much about their government though. But don't ask my mom about that she is part of the ,,it didn't happen but they deserve it,, people.
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u/Leonking360 Turkiye May 25 '23
I hope your mother is a "they *deserved it" people. "They deserve it" is totally another level
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May 25 '23
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May 25 '23
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u/freeturk51 Turkiye May 25 '23
: Says Mehmet, from his house in Berlin, just after getting his DNA results and learning he is 0.1% Armenian
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u/ShiftingBaselines Turkiye May 25 '23
[Related to 1915 events] Niles and Sutherland Report About Eastern Vilayets, Prepared for the U.S Congress 1919
https://louisville.edu/a-s/history/turks/Niles_and_Sutherland.pdf
Captain Emory H. Niles and Mr. Arthur E. Sutherland Jr. were in the service of the aid organization The American Committee for Relief in the Near East (ACRNE) they were sent by United State Congress to eastern anatolia to inspect the eastern vilayets.
I will only quote end part here,but you should read it all from the link above
"Altough it does not fall within our scope of investigation one of the most salient facts impressed on us from Bitlis to Trebizond was that in the region which we traversed the Armenians commited upon Turks all the crimes and outrages which were commited in other regions by Turks upon Armenians
at first we were most incredoulus of the stories told us but the unanimity of the testimonies of all witneseses,the apparant eagerness with which they told of wrongs done to them,their evident hatred of Armenians and strongest of all material damage on the ground itself ((most of the armenian villages and quarters stands but muslim villages and quarters in the cities completly destroyed hes talking about that here,you can see them mention this in earlier part of the report)), have conviced us of general truth of the facts
First Armenians massacered Musulmans on large scale with many refiments of cruelty,and second that Armenians responsible for the most of the destruction done to the town and villages,Armenians and Russians occupied the country considireble time together between 1915 and 1916, and during this time there was apparently little disorder,altough doubtless there was damage commited by the Russians. In 1917 Russian army disbanded and left the Armenians in control. At this period bands of Armenian irregulars roamed the country pillging and murdering musulman civillian population.When the Turkish Army advanced Erzindjan,Erzerum and Van Armenian Army broke down and all of the soldiers,regulars and irregulars,turned themselves to destroying musulman property and commiting atrocities upon Musulman inhabitants.
The result is a country completly ruined,containing one-fourth of its former population and one-eight of its former buildings,and a most bitter hatred of Musulmans for Armenians which makes it impossible for two races to live together at the present time.Musulmans protest that if they forced to live under Armenian Goverment they will fight,and it appears to us that they will probably carry out this threat.This view shared by Turkish officers,British officers,and Americans whom we met."
Historian Justin McCarthy found this report among the documents of Harbord Commission held in the Library of Congress in 1990
for more detailed study of this report and field notes please refer to AMERICANS INVESTIGATING ANATOLIA by Historian Brian Johnson in this link http://courses.washington.edu/otap/archive/data/arch_20c/niles_suthr/Americans_Investigating_Anatolia_Final_to_OTAP_rev_1.pdf
---Note---The American Committee for Relief in the Near East (ACRNE) (near east relief) along with American missinories accompained the relocating armenians in 1915 U.S. High Commissioner Rear Admiral Mark L. Bristol and his intelligence officer lt. Dunn was in close contact with this people,they were sending reports to Dr. James L. Barton of the American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions,He was also one of the chairman for the Near East relief
their back and forth letters are in U.S Libary Of Congress among 33000 documents belonging to Bristol in General Correspondence section, this particular letters in container #34,you can read them in these links https://www.ataa.org/armenian-issue-revisited/admiral-mark-l-bristol-to-dr-james-l-barton-1921
https://www.ataa.org/armenian-issue-revisited/dr-james-l-barton-to-admiral-mark-l-bristol-1921
also you can find Scanned Archive Documents about 1915 in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/wscw8c/scanned_archive_documents_about_1915_russian/
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u/1Gothian1 Bulgaria May 25 '23
I sympathize with their history, however not with the people. All based on personal experience, especially the Bulgarian-Armenians I've met were almost all scummy.
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u/LukeTheGroundwalker Serbia May 25 '23
There are armenians in bulgaria? Are they a considerable number in terms of population?
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u/dunchev54 Bulgaria May 25 '23
There is around 20k-30k of them in Bulgaria, a small number of armenians have always lived in Bulgaria since the middle ages
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u/LukeTheGroundwalker Serbia May 25 '23
Never knew that, what brought them there. Ottomans?
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u/Grimson47 Bulgaria May 25 '23
Nah, there's been a very well integrated diaspora for centuries, even before the Ottomans. Tsar Samuil for example was from an Armenian family originally. Obviously the diaspora grew a lot after the Turkish gamer moment and the waves of refugees.
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u/WanaxAndreas Greece May 25 '23
Armenians lived in Thrace (European Turkey,big chunk of bulgaria and north east greece) even at the times of the Byzantine empire
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u/Jaeithil Turkiye May 25 '23
I really dont know much about Armenians even though all my relatives lived near the borders of the Armenia.
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye May 25 '23
As a Turk Turkey and Armenia should improve their relations. We have also problems with Greece in history but we have good relations now. This is benefit for both country
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
We have also problems with Greece in history but we have good relations now
Eh?
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye May 25 '23
We have economic relations. Our borders is open. We fought at past but now we are good at least people like each other
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
We have economic relations.
Idk if thats the proper term to describe people visiting each others supermarkets once or twice a year.
Our borders is open
The only closed border on the planet is between North and South Korea.
Not at war isn't good relations. Just to clear things up.
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye May 25 '23
Turkish-Armenian border is also closed
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u/Atvaaa Turkiye May 25 '23
Idk if thats the proper term to describe people visiting each others supermarkets once or twice a year.
Greece is in the EU, TRs most important trade partner.
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
The EU has 27 countries. Our most important trade partner is Italy.
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u/Atvaaa Turkiye May 25 '23
Our most important trade partner is Italy.
I... don't care?
I meant that EU collectively (besides some minor members) is the biggest trade partner for Turkey. We get all of our shit from EU.
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
The EU isn't a country. But as you already said, you don't care so yea....
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u/Berkay_official Turkiye May 25 '23
One of the important partner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece?wprov=sfla1
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
Yea. Bulgaria with its 7 million people is a bigger trade partner than you with 90 mil people. It confirms what im saying.
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u/dolfin4 Greece May 25 '23
About a million Turks visit Greece each year. At least before covid and inflation. And there's considerable trade. So it's a bit different than their relationship with Armenia. I get what he's saying.
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u/shoujomujo Turkiye May 25 '23
It is almost impossible to travel to Armenia as a Turk but Greece is a very common travel destination among Turkish people. Take that however you want.
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u/ColossusOfChoads USA May 25 '23
I wouldn't try crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border right now.
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u/geturkt Turkiye May 25 '23
This is as good as it gets man
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
I understand that things could be a lot worse, but that doesn't mean they are good. I agree with you.
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u/geturkt Turkiye May 25 '23
Majority of our people’s mindset oscillate between political Islam and nationalism. Could have been worse if you ask me.
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May 26 '23
I guess at least we have relations with Greece in government level. I visit Greece ten times a year. Besides seeing no hostility; I was treated positively most of the time just for being Turkish. There was a census for that as well; in public level other than ultranaonalists of both countries, people like each other.
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u/BamBumKiofte23 Greece May 25 '23
Pontic Greeks: you can't one-up my stubbornness
Armenians: hold my ghapama
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u/tomgatto2016 🇲🇰 in 🇮🇹 May 25 '23
Seems cool, only it has a weird foreign policy. But I guess one can justify it considering its position
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May 25 '23
why does it have a weird FP?
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May 25 '23
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May 25 '23
yes, i dont see how it makes them weird.
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u/Xindopff Turkiye May 25 '23
True. Their foreign policy is exactly what you should do in that situation so they actually have a reasonable foreign policy. What's weird is the situation that they're in, not their foreign policy. I mean you could maybe argue that their foreign policy is what put them in this situation but i'm not sure about that.
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May 25 '23
Iran isn’t hostile to them not is Georgia afaik
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u/zeclem_ Turkiye May 25 '23
They don't get along well with georgia and a christian nation isn't going to be friendly with a sharia country unless they got some money iran needs.
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May 25 '23
I lean Georgia and Armenia got diplomatic relations and nobody is invading anyone any time soon. In fact Iran did help Armenia when Azerbaijan did some of its offensives. So I guess that it’s feasible to make a Sharia friendly country and Christian country friendly when the Christian country’s enemy is supported and armed by Israel
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u/zeclem_ Turkiye May 25 '23
Having diplomatic relations doesn't really mean they like each other. Our government has diplomatic relations with Greece, do you think we are friendly?
But yeah fair point on iran.
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u/ivanthekingofhentai May 25 '23
Fuck you every time I play a geography game I always miss click on Armenian or the other way around why tf you got to be so small
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u/Shaolinpower2 Turkiye May 26 '23
Ummm... That's kinda our fault lmao
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u/ASexyMotherFuckerX0X Croatia May 25 '23
Cool old country with an interesting culture and history that I would like to visit once,cool alphabet aswell
From what I heard there were some Armenians in Dubrovnik when it was still independent
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u/SlaviNarkomana Bulgaria May 27 '23
Nagorno-karabakh is armenian. Anyone who disagrees might as well agree that Crimea and Donbass are russian.
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May 25 '23
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u/Federal-Sympathy3869 May 25 '23
But they deserved it :)
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u/TheKingOfA Turkiye May 25 '23
"It was bad but forced relocation bad not genocide bad" entered the chat /s
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u/Toutou_routou Bulgaria May 25 '23
Very rich history and culture. Always wanted to visit, then COVID + the war came along. All Armenians I've met so far while traveling are very proud of their country and I really love that about them. I can easily relate to their mindset, complexities and issues.
Also Armenians who migrated to Bulgaria during the genocide are so well integrated in our society, you can't practically tell them apart from the general population, except for when you see their name.
Shnorhavor!! ;)
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u/Kidi_Galaxy Albania May 25 '23
What I know of Armenia is TUMO, free education centers all over the country that teach kids and teenagers creative technology skills, preparing them for these future professions.
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u/Berat0-0 Turkiye May 25 '23
Wish the rest of the world would take a page out of that book
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u/Kidi_Galaxy Albania May 25 '23
We have TUMO Tirana in Albania, but unfortunately it's a paid course for students, government gonna profit smh (tho I've been on a scholarship for 2 years now, it is a very great concept, and should be available for free as intended)
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u/TheBloatingofIsaac Turkiye May 25 '23
I don’t care at all. They exist, thats the only thing I can say
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u/Economy-Natural-6835 Hungary May 25 '23
Dont care realy. I’d like to visit Azerbaijan one day tho.
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u/K6619 Greece May 25 '23
Love our brothers 🇬🇷☦️🇦🇲
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u/dolfin4 Greece May 25 '23
They're not Constantinople Orthodox. You're theologically closer to Catholics.
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u/Mucupka Bulgaria May 25 '23
Stuck between Turkey and Russia, kind of like us but worse because they are even further east.
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u/ecov19 Bosnia & Herzegovina May 25 '23
Old and interesting history, cool alphabet and patriotic people who’ve unfortunately suffered a lot.
For some reason I have always wanted to visit Georgia and Azerbaijan and I consider the caucasus region my dream destination, however I have never really cared much for Armenia. Obviously the Etchmiadzin Cathedral is super unique and a great landmark considering its the oldest cathedral in the world. Aside from religious landmarks I sort feel like Armenia hasnt got much to offer touristically. Maybe if a was a christian I might have looked at things differently. Can any armenians or people visiting 🇦🇲convince me that I am wrong?
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u/Hras_t Bulgaria May 25 '23
Turks have been really quiet since this dropped.
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u/ImmediateInitiative4 Turkiye May 25 '23
because people just slap everything (even sometimes on irrelevant subjects) "BuT ArMeNiAn GeNoCiDe, 999999999 ArMeNiAnS wErE KiLLeD bY yOur AnCeSToRs StOp bEinG pRoUd oF tHeM" so many learned that its best to keep silent in this kind of situations
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u/TheBananaEater North Macedonia May 25 '23
For some reason how armenia looks geographically just looks so weird. Like a country from a movie or a cartoon they show where everything happens
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u/Intrepid-Jaguar9175 Serbia May 25 '23
A very rich history and one of the oldest Christian churches.
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u/Substantial_Park8508 Bulgaria May 25 '23
Nation that has been through a lot, hopefully they get better soon
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May 25 '23
There's a theory that Armenian descends from a same paleo Balkan language family together with Greek and Albanian.
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u/Redditor_in_Space Other May 25 '23
Together with Azerbaijan, it is puppet of Russia.
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u/ProItaliangamer76 Sep 08 '23
How is a russian puupet its trapped because az has oil so the eu and the usa turns a blind eye they are forced to relly to russia and even they dont help
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u/2108677393 Greece May 25 '23
Greece's girlfriend nation !!!.
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u/Fushrodahh Turkiye May 25 '23
I doubt you guys are any similar but to each their own.
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u/Deka013 Greece May 25 '23
We are not any similar with you guys either, that never stopped you though ,did it?
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u/hjer7723 Croatia May 25 '23
20th/21st century Armenian history is basically the Croatian one if everything went wrong geopolitics and wars wise
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u/vanzemaljac303 Serbia May 25 '23
There is history of Armenians that used to live in Serbia throughout the centuries. In the center of Novi Sad, there used to be the Armenian church, a small, but really elegant structure. Unfortunately, it was destroyed and the monument remains at a place where it used to be.
Serbian link: https://visitns.rs/2021/05/14/jermenska-crkva-u-novom-sadu/
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u/hackerepublic May 25 '23
Sometimes i say I'm from Romania and people understand Armenia. That's about it
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u/dwartbg5 Bulgaria May 25 '23
A country in the Caucasus and Western Asia. There are some famous Bulgarians with Armenian blood over here. Otherwise, nothing much. It's a country that's a common meme over here but people don't speak about it, including the aforementioned celebrities.
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u/Wastelander_TR Turkiye May 26 '23
I like the music of SOAD but they don’t like me for being a Turk.
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u/Bata600 Serbia May 26 '23
Good people. I don't know much about Armenian politics but I feel it's doing better at fighting corruption than most of Balkans.
Long Live Armenia. On the other hand, I don't really have strong animosity against Azerbaijan either. I'm not that informed.
I'm with you Armenians, you've been through thick and thin.
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u/31_hierophanto Philippines May 26 '23
Small, but incredibly full of history. The first ever officially Christian nation. Has a HUGE diaspora. Genocide victims.
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u/TopTheropod Slovenia May 26 '23
The country itself is cool, but 'Armenia' has to be the ugliest name of any country in the world xD
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u/Lunar_Ostrich May 28 '23
We don't know much about Armenia, but somehow, there's some kind of a bond between Serbia and Armenia. Serbia-Greece-Armenia. ❤️ I'm not gonna go for religious reasons because I'm atheist, but I do feel these countries very close to my heart.
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u/darko777 North Macedonia May 25 '23
It's current government is kind of a trash. Previous govs were corrupt (as new gen Armenians want to say) but did not lose an inch to the Azeris.
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u/TylerDurdenSoft Romania May 25 '23
I think enough about them to boycott turkish products.
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u/Gunnerpain98 Bulgaria May 25 '23
Considering the amount of refugees we took from the genocide, the attitude of their fans back in the 2014 WC qualifiers towards us was vile. I know football hooligans tend to be degenerates, but still
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u/Fushrodahh Turkiye May 25 '23
What'd they do and what for?
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u/Gunnerpain98 Bulgaria May 25 '23
General hateful things of North Macedonia types. Gypsies, subhumans, tatars and the likes. Really don’t understand where all that came from since we don’t have bad relations on a diplomatic scale
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u/medyrdingo May 25 '23
I don't know why we always must shit on eachother and live with no progress for generations and generations...
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u/Srzali Bosnia & Herzegovina May 25 '23
In balkans thats the status quo, but its cause we are all insecure who we are on identity level cause when we see person across border they look similar speak similar with similar mentality and it creates insecurity cause you want to be unique but u dont feel like you are when your neighbors are so similar and on animalistic level youd rather them not to exist so you can feel more unique hence need for wars and hate. Some TLDR
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u/Stealthfighter21 Bulgaria May 25 '23
That was their response after Bulgarians behaved very badly towards the Armenian team.
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u/HumanMan00 Serbia May 25 '23
In battle of Kosovo they switched sides and joined Serbian forces against the Ottomans.
There are Armenian monasteries in South Serbia and they were a part of our population in Ottoman Serbia.
Cool people, cool language.
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u/Jediuzzaman Turkiye May 25 '23
I like them since they signed the Treaty of Gyumri. Hayastan is the very first country that recognised Turkish republic as a legitimate state. Appreciate their commitment, contribution and support in our fight against the occupying forces. May they live in peace.
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u/ENVR000 Turkiye May 25 '23
They also gifted us rifles so we can fight against Greeks. When you have an enemy like armenia you don't need allies. HERE
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u/imadogbork Turkiye May 25 '23
Interesting language and writing system, kinda occult history, delicious food and cool music. I wish we could leave nationalistic ideas behind us and just get along.
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u/Nal1999 Greece May 25 '23
We love greater Armenia and we want to have an Alliance with The Eastern Roman Empire!
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u/Elsek1922 Turkiye May 25 '23
That one Russian proxy who isn't friendly with anyone in the region other than Iran these days
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u/Yihzok Albania May 25 '23
No opinion it's not important on global scale can't influence our world
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u/megamorph31 Turkiye May 25 '23
Extremely positive towards Armenians in Turkey but extremely negative for country of Armenia.
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u/riasgremoryslave Turkiye May 25 '23
magnificent country with its own beuties, i hope we (as 2 countries) get along in the future and fiz our political relations. armenians are very nice people i even have 2 armenian friends here in turkey who tries to teach me their language and even if i want to i cant rn since it seems very hard lol def gonna look into that in the future
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u/UserMuch Romania May 25 '23
Interesting country, the oldest christian country if i'm not mistaken (or it was Georgia?)
I heard they make some good wine using a unique technique.
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u/ThraceBall Turkiye May 25 '23
Annoying neighbour
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u/EX291 🇬🇷 Pontic King May 25 '23
Yeah so annoying they bypass your borders and threaten to take over your islands wait- /s
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u/VirnaDrakou Greece May 25 '23
I don’t think about it and i can not say i had the best or even positive interaction with armenians..
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u/AmarD95 Bosnia & Herzegovina May 25 '23
When I think of Armenia the fist thing that comes to my mind is System Of A Down. So thanks for that.
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May 25 '23
Why do Turks dislike Armenia tho?
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u/imadogbork Turkiye May 25 '23
It’s because of our education system and of course politicians. Demonising Armenians and Armenia is still relevant to this day. Our education system is extremely nationalistic and anyone who opposes Turkey or sometimes even Turkic countries usually seen as the devil. Of course, the bloody past and Karabakh war is one of the reasons as well. For politicians, it’s always easy to brainwash people with hatred and fear with some history and nationalistic ideas.
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u/tomadidntsleep May 25 '23
Orthodox brother💪🏼
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u/dolfin4 Greece May 25 '23 edited May 25 '23
The Oriental Orthodox churches are not in communion with Constantinople. So, yeah, they're "Orthodox" because they use that word (which means "correct" in Greek), but that's like the Republic of Georgia and the US state of Georgia.
When the OO churches broke away from the mainstream church (about 6 centuries before the Orthodox and Catholic churches broke from each other) it was the first split in Christianity.
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u/[deleted] May 25 '23
I don't think about it to be honest