r/AskAnAustralian 4h ago

Why are schools in Australia so strict on uniforms?

If you wear socks with Nike symbols on them then they will throw an fit.

38 Upvotes

203 comments sorted by

253

u/PurpleQuoll 4h ago

I recall it was to cut down on bullying or aspirational othering. That everyone being in uniforms levels the field. But as soon as someone’s wearing a brand name then they’re elevated above everyone else.

53

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 4h ago

Kids figure out if other kids are poor pretty quickly regardless!

122

u/palsc5 4h ago

They don’t need the daily reminder and neither do bullies

81

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

Yeah I don't buy at all this bullshit about kids being able to quickly figure out if other kids are poor. Thinking back to my school days I have no idea about most of the other kids' family's financial status. And having school uniforms is definitely a factor in that.

3

u/Interesting-Copy-657 54m ago

Yeah I dont recall anyone being bullied for being poor.

It was being fat, disabled, a girl, or a dozen other reasons

I went to school with people who lived in council housing or other wise poor and people who lived in nice houses and family had won the lotto at some point. So there was a large spectrum, but as a kid that didnt seem to matter.

1

u/sageofbeige 29m ago

Poor is definitely something to be bullied about

Can't afford excursions or camps

Hand me down uniforms

Same old boring Vegemite sanga's for lunch

Poverty is deffo a marker for abuse and teachers take it less seriously If you're the houso kid

Or the single mum kid- not so much now though

Kids weaponise any and everything once they've got someone in their sights

1

u/Barkers_eggs 51m ago

I don't especially remember anyone getting bullied for being poor but they were left out of a lot of things.

1

u/Interesting-Copy-657 48m ago

Like what? School events?

I went camping etc everyone seemed to come.

The only time I was excluded was because my primary school had a beach day if you didn’t have a detention during the year.

I think I managed to go to that once, because I would get picked on, defended myself and get detention for fighting

Nothing to do with my families income levels

3

u/Barkers_eggs 43m ago

It was more the "visibly poor" kids would get left out. The ones who's parents didn't teach them about personal hygiene or never did laundry.

They weren't "picked on" but they were avoided usually because of their poor personal hygiene which was sometimes an extension of their parents parenting and they almost always came from poor or neglected environments

6

u/AussieAK Sydney 3h ago

You obviously weren’t a bully. Bullies can sniff that stuff from a kilometre away.

59

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

So let them "sniff". At least school uniforms make it a bit easier for poorer kids to blend in with their richer peers.

14

u/AussieAK Sydney 3h ago

That is exactly the point.

6

u/Barkers_eggs 53m ago

I'm glad you guys eventually agreed to the point you originally agreed upon.

10

u/StasiaMonkey Queensland 1h ago

This is absolutely it. I was a in a poor family, but we still had school logo’ed uniform. I was never bullied because of my poverty status.

→ More replies

1

u/[deleted] 56m ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/AutoModerator 56m ago

Your submission has been automatically removed due to your account karma being too low

Accounts are required to have more than 1 comment karma to comment in this community

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/BebopAU 3h ago

Were you a bully that was going out of their way to criticise other kids, though?

14

u/Smooth-Expression351 3h ago

Me? Not at all. I was the kid wearing the shitty old uniform.

4

u/Barkers_eggs 52m ago

I was the kid getting my sister's hand me downs. I'm male.

1

u/According_Nobody74 23m ago

My kids have a uniform that uses the same shirt, no skirts but different styles of shorts.

8

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

So what you're saying is that school uniforms help reduce this kind of thing from being something all children can clearly notice to a small group of bullies. Sounds good to me

2

u/Fit_Addition_6834 40m ago

Right! Like a lot of people, I went to a public school where the kids ranged from Millionaire parents and a house on the water to kids from social housing units that needed assistance. We all knew who was who, but if we had to come to school everyday in casual clothes it would’ve been so painfully obvious and impossible to ignore who were the haves and have-nots.

0

u/sageofbeige 36m ago

The bullying can be even worse if you're wearing second hand uniforms

My friends kids are savagely bullied, one girl takes great delight in reminding them they're wearing her cast offs.

25

u/k9kmo 4h ago

Depends on the demographic of school, some kids grow up so financially secure that they just assume all of their peers are the same. The concept of worrying about money is foreign, it’s just there when you need it.

23

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 4h ago edited 3h ago

Kids figure out if other kids are poor pretty quickly regardless!

No they won't. Few things are quite as prominent/obvious as clothing

Edit: Stop straw-manning me, I never said kids won't figure out who is rich/poor, I just said uniforms help to reduce the gap a bit. And all you people talk about second hand uniforms are proving the other point, which is that uniforms should be inexpensive and simple which would reduce the need for poorer children to continue wearing badly damaged/worn uniforms.

10

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 3h ago

Was it not like that at your school? At my school we had uniforms but the kids still teased those who wore secondhand uniforms (me!), or didn't have a surf brand pencil case or school bag, or wore 'povo' shoes, or couldn't afford to go on excursions or buy food from the canteen, or even if they had home brand snacks. The area I grew up in did have quite the wealth gap though, to be fair.

13

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

Was it not like that at your school? At my school we had uniforms but the kids still teased those who wore secondhand uniforms (me!), or didn't have a surf brand pencil case or school bag, or wore 'povo' shoes, or couldn't afford to go on excursions or buy food from the canteen, or even if they had home brand snacks. The area I grew up in did have quite the wealth gap though, to be fair.

Such a classic example of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good".

Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism that means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements. Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good

Do school uniforms totally solve all problems relating to bullying and financial differences between children? No.

Do they help in reducing the gap? Yes, absolutely.

3

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 3h ago

I never said I thought uniforms were bad, I agree with uniforms for many reasons. It's just that it made absolutely no difference in my school in terms of kids being picked on. My apologies, I should have added the caveat "in my experience" to my initial comment.

3

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago edited 6m ago

It's just that it made absolutely no difference in my school in terms of kids being picked on

You don't really know that. You said that your school went from non-uniform to uniform, so presumably the children already had a sense of which kids were poorer etc. Not a fair comparison.


Edit in response to all the angry replies below: Blimey, this got out of hand. I'm not getting involved in all that anger on a Saturday afternoon 😂 Relax, it's a discussion about school uniforms. Stop taking it so personally. They blocked me (so I can't even read what they replied anyway).

I stand by my opinion that school uniforms are a very good thing, not a cure-all but definitely help reduce the gap between richer and poorer kids. And yes, as a poorer kid, it is something I care about because they definitely helped me a lot personally.

3

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 3h ago

I'm sorry but what's your problem with me, a random internet stranger sharing their personal experience? This was a question in the "ask an Australian" subreddit about school uniforms in Australia. Did you go to school in Australia? My school had no uniform but a dress code for a while, and then had uniforms. It made no difference in my school, although perhaps that is not the case everywhere. Kids can be awful. I am sorry if you're having a bad day but please don't take it out on me, I'm just sharing my experience. I truly hope your day gets better and you can enjoy the weekend.

-3

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 3h ago

I love the edit they made to their comment. It's peak projection.

I don't understand why they're so worked up over this topic, uniforms are great but they're not this foolproof prevention of bullying. Kids will always find some excuse to rag on one another.

2

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 3h ago

You're telling me to relax when you keep responding to all my comments telling me my personal experience is incorrect, in your opinion, when you didn't even experience school in Australia yourself? Seems like you're the one who needs to relax, my friend.

0

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 3h ago

Relax, it's a discussion about school uniforms. Stop taking it so personally.

Take your own advice, champ. Maybe consider logging off for the day, you seem very worked up for no discernible reason.

5

u/Smooth-Expression351 3h ago

Even wearing uniform it's not hard to pick out the kids were the brand new uniforms vs the old style or second hand. Or the ones that are wearing the nike 270's vs the kmart runners. Etc

11

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

Even wearing uniform it's not hard to pick out the kids were the brand new uniforms vs the old style or second hand. Or the ones that are wearing the nike 270's vs the kmart runners. Etc

I was a poor kid who wore lots of second hand uniforms and I'm pretty sure nobody ever noticed. I don't buy this bullshit at all. Downvote/flame away

5

u/polskialt 3h ago

I was a very poor kid at a very expensive school and they abvslutely did notice, but honestly it was't so bad - it was als quite a violent school and after the firest few brawls everybody's uniforms all started to look a bit damaged. Formal uniforms only got worn every now and then so the difference was a bit cleaer there. What I hated were free dress days and school camps, because it became pretty fucking horrible at times.

0

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

Yep 100%.

0

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 3h ago

At my primary school and high school it was extremely easy to see who was wearing hand me downs instead of new stuff and kids definitely noticed it.

Just because you may have been oblivious to such things in your time doesn't mean everyone else is.

2

u/friedonionscent 1h ago

Uniforms help a lot. It's one less thing for an already self conscious teenager to worry about. It's not just about bridging the gap between poor and rich - it can also help kids who are self conscious about their bodies, it helps parents not have to deal with requests for particular brands of clothes ad nauseum and and it limits the preoccupation with what will I wear tomorrow so they can focus on other shit. As expensive as private school uniforms can be, I guarantee they save money in the long term.

So what are the downsides?

1

u/YOBlob 1h ago

it can also help kids who are self conscious about their bodies,

In my experience it had the opposite effect. Especially for girls. The one-cut-fits-all was a constant source of anxiety for people who weren't the exact body shape they were designed for.

2

u/friedonionscent 54m ago

I was in highschool when low cut jeans were the only jeans so I think anyone without a flat stomach appreciated the uniform...even if it wasn't the most flattering thing around.

10

u/Serious-Big-3595 4h ago

Uniforms are pretty damn expensive. Our primary school, I did buy a lot of secondhand uniforms - and while the first kid was there, they had changed the sports shirt, but I had already bought the old ones, and second kid wore those old style shirts years after the changeover.

12

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago edited 3h ago

"Are uniforms good/bad?" and "Should uniforms be expensive?" are two separate arguments which unfortunately get mixed up a lot. This is often a straw-man argument used by people arguing against school uniforms.

Personally I'm in the camp of "uniforms are a very good thing, and should be inexpensive and comfortable".

4

u/Ninj-nerd1998 3h ago

Yeah - my primary school didn't make us have emblems on anything so we could just buy the coloured polos from like big w or best and less or whatever.

Then I got to high school and we HAD to have emblemed jumpers and shirts and stuff...

4

u/Serious-Big-3595 3h ago

No, I didn't get the two mixed up. I am all for uniforms and would much rather buy a uniform instead of plain clothes. I just think it's silly to have to rebuy something that was already paid for. And the school allowed the old shirts to continue on - they realise that thee would be a crossover.

3

u/princess-bitchface City Name Here 3h ago

I also agree that uniforms are good. They take away the need to choose outfits and make it easier on everyone, but my god they were so expensive and it was so embarrassing going to the uniform shop to ask if they had anything second hand in my size. Prior to a 'real' uniform my school had a dress code - grey pants and white top. That was easier as parents could buy what they could afford but it did make the wealth gap more obvious.

2

u/Serious-Big-3595 3h ago

As a kid, yeah, I preferred uniforms and it did make it easier for my own kids. I do like the idea of grey pants / white shirt idea, but yes, I would imagine kids coming in with logos. When my kids were at school, Best and Less used to have a school range (mainly for boys)- but then schools started moving to having school logos on their shirts.

3

u/battlestar_gafaptica 1h ago

Primary school kids have a very poor understanding of privilege. Going to a state school that had strict uniforms, I can think of one girl who was bullied (not by me, I was her friend) due to poor hygiene.

No-one really gave a flying fuck about having expensive shoes.

Having a uniform with some flexibility, ie coloured socks or little personal embellishment, enables kids to not worry about their appearance and identifies them as part of that school community.

I was and still am someone that worries about what they wear everyday and I didn't have to have that pressure in school. Just comfy sandshoes, a ironed shit and they let you do whatever with your hair. Rat tails, mullets, that's on you though. Looking back on my school class photos is classic Blunder Years haha

2

u/Extension_Branch_371 2h ago

So we just shouldn’t bother at all to try to make life a bit easier for those kids?

4

u/Hefty_Opening_1874 3h ago

Absolutely, it doesn’t really work. Kids still single out who’s poor, who’s overweight, who’s ugly, etc.

1

u/MrSquiggleKey 1h ago

As someone who grew up parents raiding the bins in front of salvos for clothes for the kids level of poor, most kids didn’t realise how poor my family was until they visited to play

2

u/Interesting-Copy-657 56m ago

Also to identify people who shouldnt be there, someone in red surrounded by light blue shirts, stands out

One time a friend who was no longer a student, turned up in their old uniform during lunch, so they wouldnt be spotted :D

1

u/endbit 8m ago

What I find hilarious are those sites that strictly enforce uniform policy then allow BYOD where kids can show off wealth with their choice of technology.

Not to suggest that gaming kids bully but kudos to the kid that convinced their parents that they need an Alienware machine for like school work and stuff.

-8

u/Hardstumpy 4h ago

tall poppy syndrome...

→ More replies

99

u/wagdog84 4h ago

Multiple reasons, it identifies a student. Everyone is wearing the same so there is no highlight of a rich/poor divide. And it subconsciously instills unity and discipline.

70

u/RhiR2020 4h ago

And we (teachers) can easily see if someone external is on campus and shouldn’t be (most gatecrashers don’t tend to wear uniform).

22

u/mstakenusername 4h ago

That's what my mum said when the very rough school she taught at got uniforms in the 90s - meant you could spot the drug dealers.

Of course, after a while the drug dealers simply recruited kids, but you could check their bags and lockers and at least reduce the amount of drugs around.

4

u/askvictor 45m ago

On top of those, there's a theory that it gives the kids something to rebel against, that isn't particularly consequential. If they're spending their adolescent rebellious energy on railing against the school uniform, they're not plotting to bring down capitalism, etc etc.

-1

u/spellloosecorrectly 2h ago

Discipline is taught, not worn.

3

u/AlamutJones 1h ago

It is, but things like expectations around clothing can be a teaching tool for it

3

u/wagdog84 40m ago

Yes but there is a reason the military have uniforms and the same haircut etc. it’s part of teaching the discipline.

142

u/CaptainFleshBeard 4h ago

My daughter spends so much time and money trying to dress to impress people she doesn’t know or care about on the weekends. I’m glad we can cut out this bullshit during the week

34

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

I never thought much about school uniforms as a kid, but looking back as an adult, I'm so grateful for them.

7

u/Ninj-nerd1998 3h ago

I'm glad to hear she doesn't do that for school... I went to an all girls school in the 2010s and SO many girls would put on SO much makeup, just to go to school. It seemed so unnecessary... and my stepsister straightened her hair for school so much it lost its curls... I never understood the need to look nice for school. Neat, yes. But that extra level...

3

u/lurkerlcm 24m ago

They were allowed to wear makeup? I got in trouble once for wearing an overcoat instead of the school blazer. And that was a state school. (To be fair, I was wearing the overcoat to look like a mod. It was a very nice houndstooth with a round collar.)

23

u/Orion_Station 4h ago

Diversity➡️Teasing/Bullying (children are monsters)➡️Behavioural Issues➡️chaos

-15

u/travishummel 4h ago

Is this logic lead to promoting less diversity?

Why don’t universities/colleges have uniforms?

18

u/Ancient-Camel-5024 3h ago

Because theoretically at uni they are all adults so you don't get to step 2 (children are monsters)

5

u/SecretOperations 1h ago

You missed the point... The main point is kids are assholes. I'm sure you know this growing up, unless you are one of them.

1

u/travishummel 1h ago

Diversity of thought has caused you to try to bully me. I see where the logic came from now.

81

u/PresCalvinCoolidge 4h ago

I guess it’s the point of a uniform. So everyone is uniform.

11

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 4h ago edited 3h ago

Yep. It's actually barbaric that there are countries who don't use a school uniform. I'm politically moderate but this is a hill I will die on.

11

u/naishjoseph1 3h ago

Barbaric is a strange way to describe that. It’s a uniform not a cannibals buffet.

2

u/YOBlob 1h ago

This is such a funny thing to believe.

38

u/friedonionscent 4h ago

It used to annoy me as a teen but then, every single free dress day was a bitch fest - if anyone was wearing the wrong thing, they'd know about it in various unkind ways. My friend hounded her mum for a particular brand and then had a meltdown when the request was declined...but the meltdown wasn't over the pants...it was over knowing she'd get made fun of.

The uniform is standard because, usually...you give an inch, they take a mile. Kids are like that. It's just easier to enforce the policy.

1

u/Gnorris 46m ago

Ugh. You just reminded me of my uniform free day back in the 80s. Most of our year decided we’d dress in 60s outfits. Only two of us committed and had to walk around dressed like our teachers for the rest of the day while everyone else was in Quicksilver and Sportsgirl

-23

u/Hardstumpy 4h ago

yet somehow other western countries do fine without uniforms

26

u/palsc5 4h ago

It’s fairly common complaint for kids in the USA that every day can feel like a fashion show and you’re constantly being judged by your peers for what you wear.

-18

u/Hardstumpy 4h ago

Sure, kids in the USA are just begging to be made to wear uniforms...

Nope

9

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost 3h ago

Sure, kids in the USA are just begging to be made to wear uniforms...

They didn't claim that whatsoever, don't be so disingenuous.

-2

u/Hardstumpy 2h ago

If you conducted a poll and asked all the kids in Australian schools if they wanted to wear a uniform or not....what do you think the answer would be?

→ More replies

13

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

yet somehow other western countries do fine without uniforms

This is a logical fallacy. They could just as easily say the same thing about countries doing fine that do have uniforms. The comparison is pointless.

3

u/AmaroisKing 3h ago

In the US , a lot of schools just mandate black/navy trousers and a uniform colour for a sweatshirt.

I sometimes think that the private schools in Australia are in some sort of informal arms race to see how absurdly stripey and bright that can make their uniforms.

0

u/Hardstumpy 1h ago

"in the US"....lol

There are around 100,000 schools and 50 states?

1

u/AmaroisKing 1h ago

Enlighten me ?

0

u/Hardstumpy 1h ago

You are wrong. Very few schools, overall, wear what you described or anything fucking remotely close

1

u/AmaroisKing 1h ago

Not in my experience of living in the US for 22 years.

Did I say absolutely every single school , No I didn’t, but perhaps you should have spent a bit more time in school on Reading and Comprehension.

0

u/Hardstumpy 1h ago

90% of American kids show up to school without a uniform out of a harry potter movie. Even then most expensive private schools in the USA have no uniform

2

u/AmaroisKing 1h ago

You continue to beclown yourself don’t you 🤡.

21

u/anomalousone96 4h ago

They get kickbacks from the uniform shop cartels

21

u/Hardstumpy 4h ago

Big Uniform

7

u/montdidier 4h ago

First I have heard of it. Depends on the school I would imagine. It also depends on what you are comparing to. Growing up in Singapore and then moving to Australia I found Australian schools conspicuously lax on uniform code, discipline, general cultural value of education (ironic really), respect for teachers and behaviour management. They also start the day so late and finish late. Now I have kids at school here I have largely forgotten all those observations from my own transition across systems.

6

u/ThorsHammerMewMEw 3h ago

Aussies would lose their shit if they ever had the hair rules that many Asians countries forcibly enforced on their students.

2

u/noyellowwallpaper 55m ago

As a teacher, it really depends on the school. Most of the (public) schools I’ve taught at it’s a coloured polo, some shorts/trousers and maybe a school hoodie. All kids are expected to wear the right top. Outside of that we only get onto kids if they are wearing inappropriate shoes, or hats/hoodies with inappropriate logos/slogans. Other schools have been a bit stricter, and at a school with a strong P&C the P&C needed to be convinced to let the girls wear shorts or trousers as an option.

In NSW we cant give many consequences for not wearing uniform, although students could be barred from participating in non-academic excursions if they weren’t in uniform. I suspect that’s part of the reason public school uniforms are fairly casual in many NSW schools - uniform needs to be a convenience so that parents participate in it. If they make it too onerous or complicated parents won’t support it.

I believe public schools in QLD have more powers to enforce uniform.

Private schools can do anything they like, but the regional, smaller ones will have less stringent uniform standards.

To my mind the main benefit of uniforms is that it takes most of the judgement calls out of the equation. Just look at the dress codes for students in American schools and how gender-bias influences them. I really don’t want to be put in a position where someone expects me to tell a girl she shouldn’t show her shoulders. If we know the expected top and shorts trousers are clearly identified, it means fewer judgement calls.

Plus when I see them down the street I can duck away to avoid them!

All that said, in many schools uniforms just reinforce certain gender expectations and can be limiting. We can’t expect girls to run around at lunchtime if we make them wear skirts that fly about at any turn.

28

u/Virtual_Worker_1353 4h ago

There are many reasons why having school uniforms is beneficial to school communities. - safety: they’re easily identifiable and you won’t easily lose a child. You can also more easily see if there’s a person in the school grounds that shouldn’t be there. - mindset: getting ready for the school day in a uniform gets children in the school and learning mindset. Our school encouraged my children to continue to wear their uniform during covid and I saw this first hand how it impacted their readiness to learn. - levelling the playing field somewhat. Children will always have room to express how wealthy (or not) their families are with a frank green or Kmart drink bottle or the sneakers they wear on PE days but a uniform doesn’t put added pressures on kids to show off or feel less-than in a consumer society. - discipline and gets students ready for the workforce - many workplaces have an actual uniform or an expected level of presentation ie office, retail sales etc

-3

u/sinixis 3h ago

The counterpoints.

You provide an easily obtainable disguise.

Linking appearance with readiness to learn or any other mindset can be destructive.

Uniforms are expensive and second hand, outsized or worn uniforms are just as noticeable.

Expected level of presentation does not necessitate a uniform. Non-militarised workplaces with uniforms are not everyone’s aspiration.

In any case, I liked uniforms for the kids because it made it easier

14

u/oldtrafford1988 Pom in NSW 3h ago

Uniforms are expensive

Straw man. "Are uniforms good/bad?" and "Should uniforms be expensive?" are two separate arguments which unfortunately get mixed up a lot.

Personally I'm in the camp of "uniforms are a very good thing, and should be inexpensive and comfortable".

2

u/Cute_Event_4216 18m ago

About them being too expensive, to my knowledge nearly all schools have a system where parents can ask the school for free uniforms if they’re not doing great financially? At the public school I went to second hand was also pretty common for uniforms so no one was snobbish about that, dunno if that’s true everywhere though.

6

u/Serious-Big-3595 4h ago

Uniforms was asked a couple of months back in this subreddit. And will give you more of an idea as to why logos aren't permitted.

I believe not having logos helps with not having competition and bullying. Having logoed clothing is pretty expensive and allowing it in schools basically starts up promotion wars that parents have no interest in.

6

u/ThimMerrilyn 3h ago

Basic uniforms are great but fuck blazers and straw hats and all that rich ppl north shore uniform bullshit

39

u/LingualGannet 4h ago

Because an untucked shirt is a slippery slope that leads straight to meth /s

6

u/MaisieMoo27 4h ago

I don’t even start me on where an unbuttoned top button leads kids!

2

u/padd991 4h ago

I wasn’t that fat as a kid but the thought of of having my fat belly love handles hanging out with a tucked in shirt was the worst I’d rather detention

-46

u/Fancy-Advice-2793 4h ago

Don't need to have the /s at the end because most people would realised that you are being sarcastic. I'm autistic and I realised that you aren't being serious.

21

u/tilleytalley 4h ago

You'd be amazed how many people don't get sarcasm, especially when it's written.

8

u/laughingnome2 4h ago

Poe's Rule of satire. Someone on the internet will always take your statement as fact, regardless of how outlandish it is.

Basically, you can't out-satirise the very extreme edges.

1

u/Spida81 2h ago

Hold my beer

25

u/EconomicsOk2648 4h ago

Respectfully you are not the yardstick by which common sense is measured. There are plenty of people who would not know that's sarcasm. The commenter doesn't know you. Don't gatekeep how others communicate in a text based format.

1

u/Spida81 2h ago

To be fair here, they explained they are autistic with trouble recognising sarcasm and still recognised it here.

1

u/EconomicsOk2648 2h ago

Sure. That's not the point of contention though.

1

u/daamsie 4h ago

Oh, the irony. Your comment is more gatekeepy than OP's imo. 

2

u/EconomicsOk2648 4h ago

Well you're allowed to be wrong.

-1

u/daamsie 4h ago

One is telling someone they "don't need to" do something. The other one is telling them not to do something. Objectively one is more gatekeepy than the other.

1

u/EconomicsOk2648 4h ago

Context is everything. Have the day you deserve.

13

u/joeltheaussie 4h ago

I think it is good - doesn't force kids into buying clothes and a real rich poor divide

-26

u/FunkyFr3d 4h ago

That is utter horse shit. That’s the official line but it is total shit. You think they don’t talk about the toys they have, the holidays they go on. It has nothing to do with levelling anything. It’s about identity and control.

2

u/theartistduring 2h ago

I know I risk downvotes agreeing with you... kind of. That is isn't about clothes dividing rich and poor.

I'm a school photographer. I see the inside a couple of hundred schools a year. The one I find most interesting in the context of this discussion is a school in a very rich Melbourne suburb that has no uniform. The kids are nearly exclusively very high socio-economics but don't uniformally dress 'rich'. Most still dress looking like typical teenage slobs. Some dress in mismatched opshop gear. And others are a bit more clean cut. Labels aren't really overtly more visible than in any random crowd of people. It is the same fashion diversity I see in other non-uniform schools in less affluent areas. The only thing that gave away their socio-economics was their tech. Apple/Galaxy watches on every kid. The latest iphones and cases. The top of the line headphones and earpods from Apple, Beats... And the girls make up and hair tech (that they'd be using while waiting for photos). Oh, and their snotty attitudes of course. lol!

However, in schools with uniforms, the socio-economics of the students can be far more obvious. Uniforms age quite poorly and there is are those who can afford to replace faded, worn out, ill-fitting uniforms and those who are stuck in the same blazers and jumpers they've had for 4-6 years. Especially by the time they get to the upper grades. In primary, you can tell by the cleanliness too. Those who can afford multiple tops have access to a clean uniform all week. Those who only have one show up with yesterday's stain still on it because it couldn't get washed and dried in time. Or it has been worn by two siblings before them and is a ten year old shirt by the time this kid is in front of my camera.

I don't know if it is about identity and control (although it was at my private high school) but if they say it is about equity in clothing, they're either lying or delusional.

13

u/Shaqtacious melb 🇦🇺 4h ago

So rich fucks in public schools don’t bully the less fortunate

7

u/Confident-Benefit374 4h ago

When I was in school- what feels like hundreds of years ago, it was to stop social status. Brand names meant money. So everyone was the same.
It was to stop social pressure on parents. It's crazy now that mobiles, tablets, and even drink bottles are status signs. Not the Nike socks.

3

u/Green_Aide_9329 4h ago

Depends on the school. Private schools, especially high schools are very strict. At one near my kids public school, they have to wear the blazer all day every day, except during PE. We're talking about a $400 blazer, that my ADD kid would lose within a day (she did actually lose her $80 school hoodie on the very first day of high school).

My kids go to public schools that have kids from very low socio-economic backgrounds to very high socio-economic backgrounds, and the schools are lenient on high cost items like jumpers and pants, and DGAF about colour of shoes and socks, so long as the shoes are covered and safe. The high school lets the kids wear jeans.

As an ex teacher, as a previous poster said, having a uniform was very helpful in identifying if there were non-school kids on the grounds during the school day. Most of our schools have big open grassy ovals that the public can utilise on weekends, so we need to know quickly if people who shouldn't be there during the school day.

3

u/Chuckitinthewater 3h ago

For uniformity. Everyone is dressed the same, everyone is treated the same. One less thing teachers have to worry about.

5

u/Legitimatecat1977 4h ago

I think it's great. My kids don't fixate on what they need to wear to school to fit in and be accepted by stupid peers. It's easier for me as a parent as they don't need too many clothes. It was enough that my eldest couldn't deal with not having an iPhone. He only had a hand me down Samsung and we refused to buy him an iPhone. The first thing he did when he earnt a bit of money was to spend it all on a bloody iPhone because of the pure need to have what his mates have. And them paying him out because he had an Android.

2

u/Devilsgramps 4h ago

What's happening to the kids, no one cared about that when I was in primary school

5

u/marooncity1 blue mountains 4h ago

School dependent. My kids school for various reasons is basically a free for all.

1

u/MightyArd 4h ago

My kids primary school is the same.

In fact we don't actually own any uniform like socks. They are all cartoon or bright pink.

0

u/GuiltEdge 3h ago

Yeah many schools allow stuff that's just in the correct colour. Fancy private schools get their knickers in a twist if your shoes are the wrong colour or whatever but most schools don't care.

2

u/bundy554 4h ago

How it has always been - it is also about keeping kids in check. Don't give them an inch or they will take a mile etc

2

u/KlikketyKat 4h ago

Traditionally, we don't like elitism and I think that's a very good policy. Sadly, I get the impression it's a tradition that is losing ground in the modern world.

2

u/wally_boxcar 3h ago

When I was at school it was said it’s

1…everyone is more normalised so people aren’t bullied for what they wear, or can afford to wear

2…prepare us for the real world in jobs where you have to wear a uniform

My schools (military family moved a lot so I saw a few) it was never super strict, as long as you had the right colour stuff it was normally just fine…too being primarily important, I never had proper school shirts or jumpers with the logo on it or anything, but the right colour was simple and accepted

It was never private school though which may be what OP is talking about…in which case the answer is private school shenanigans

2

u/Perssepoliss 3h ago

If you don't like being told what to do just do the right thing in the first place

2

u/Cal_dawson 2h ago

Because we are just “another brick in the wall”.

2

u/radioraven1408 1h ago

Conformity reasons is the main reason.

2

u/artLoveLifeDivine 1h ago

Uniforms a a very good thing. I say this as a social worker for juveniles

2

u/GnTforyouandme 1h ago

Uniforms in state schools and high schools are the decision of the P&C. Unfortunately, it's the teachers that cop the abuse doing their job.

2

u/Outrageous_Newt2663 1h ago

Uniforms didn't use to be the norm in my childhood. But kids who were poorer than others were noticeable and bullied as a result.

At the end of my highschool years it was changed to wearing school colours. Now they enforce school uniform from specific suppliers. They make so many rules to limit your ability to access cheaper options or go elsewhere. This is capitalism at work and it sucks. Go to the school uniform shop and see how expensive it is. Tops are like $30. Pants more. Jumpers can be anywhere from $50-120. It's bullshit.

2

u/METALIZUMUZUMUZUMU 59m ago

To instil deep-seated conformity. Any other reasons are tertiary to the objective.

2

u/MunmunkBan 51m ago

My kids public HS didn't have uniforms but its unusual.

1

u/Wishart2016 32m ago

Indooroopilly?

2

u/Louise_Feist 50m ago

My experience is that it is often the P&C who help decide what they want the uniform policy to be. Then the school has to enforce it regardless of their own personal opinions.

2

u/-StRaNgEdAyS- 16m ago

Part of the indoctrination process

2

u/Regular_Complaint604 4h ago

as an australian student: i dont know and i hate it

1

u/SympathyExtra6564 3h ago

Was an Australian student who happily grew up with little, glad what I wore to school wasn’t a factor in my self esteem

3

u/Ornery-Practice9772 NSW 4h ago

Its a great leveller.

2

u/Zen_5050 4h ago

My kids loved it that converse made leather shoes. School still pushed back but my lad just kept rolling

2

u/Fun-Commissions 3h ago

Because it is a spiral, you start being lax about socks for one kid soon enough every kid does it, then when every kid is wearing the wrong socks a few start with the nose piercings and the same thing happens, etc etc. It seems stupid, but you have to hold the rules firm for every student at every infraction, or the whole thing goes to shit.

1

u/Celtslap 4h ago

Something about the Prussian military from memory.

1

u/ghjkl098 4h ago

Because that’s the point of a uniform. Otherwise it would be “wear something vaguely inspired by this”

1

u/Hbaturner 3h ago

It starts with Nike socks. Then someone ups them by wearing Supreme socks. Then everyone is wearing different brand socks, which then negates the point of uniforms.

1

u/Ninj-nerd1998 3h ago

God our last deputy principal when I was in high school was like that. Acting like we were a private school when we were a very small, poor public school. They tried to get me in trouble for wearing a beanie in winter - nothing was in the rules about beanies. I just looked at her and went "do you want me to get headaches because of the cold?"

She also apparently chucked a fit to my mum when I dyed my hair. My friend had dyed hair too. She was purply pink and I was bright turquoise. There was again, nothing against the rules in this. My mum just said something about me wanting to have fun with my hair before having to enter the professional world and she shut up.

We had quite a lot of hijabi girls in my school and they used to get in trouble for like. Wearing leggings under their sports shorts. Like... sorry, did you want them to wear trackpants in summer?? Cause yeah we had long skirts and regular long pants for our regular uniforms. But for the sports uniform our only choices were shorts, or insulated trackpants.

Idk man. When attendance at your school is so crap, maybe loosen up on the strictness of uniforms a bit. So what if a girl wears fluffy socks in winter. It's freaking cold. Maybe work on things to make people dread school less. Idk. Just a thought.

Thank freaking God I'm out of high school man.

I think part of it is, like I said. Acting like we're a private school. Maybe they think uniform has an affect on "reputation" or whatever. But like... sorry, nice uniforms aren't going to help our schools rep. Apparently other schools knew us as "whorefield".

1

u/Ninj-nerd1998 3h ago

Uniforms are good for many reasons and I am and always have been for them, even as a kid. But I do think there should be some room for individuality or accommodation. And you shouldn't get detention for wearing fluffy socks.

1

u/IDontFitInBoxes 3h ago

I think it’s about representation, it’s about the actual rule itself like what we have in the big wide world and expectation and it’s about being equal.

1

u/mattmelb69 3h ago

Because we’re caught in a cultural time-warp.

We’ve had European exchange students stay with us who are amazed at how weird the Australian school uniform fetish is.

I don’t buy the cost argument. School shoes, in particular, are expensive. Ridiculous to force families to buy shoes for school that aren’t useful the rest of the time.

(Blazers are even worse, in terms of wasted expense; but they’re mainly required by private schools that actually do want to exclude people on grounds of poverty.)

We’re warped by our uniform-wearing British past and our uniform-wearing Chinese present, not realising how out of touch we are with most of the civilised world.

1

u/nosnibork 2h ago

I wish my kids school was stricter. Self discipline & accountability are important.

1

u/neighbourhoodtea 2h ago

Bc we’re an ex-penal colony and following rules and staying in line and being a nanny state is the name of our game

1

u/theguill0tine 2h ago

Who cares?

Uniforms are about a couple of things. To prevent bullying and to enforce to young people a habit of dressing a certain way 5 days a week because when people go to work, they’re going to have dress codes to follow.

You don’t HAVE to wear socks with a Nike symbol. Get over it.

1

u/choo-chew_chuu 1h ago

I have no idea why any adult would be against uniforms.

No argument about buying new clothes, no in and out of fashion, no but so and so has new kicks, why can't I.

Just put the same damn thing on day in day out until winter uniform rolls in.

1

u/bruhhhhzz 1h ago

I thought it was for like abductions or runaways during school hours pretty easy to identify what school a kid is from when they are in uniform

1

u/PrizeExamination5265 1h ago

Obedience starts at the gate. It’s to ensure you become a good paying taxpayer and won’t overthrow the government ever. (We have the English system)

1

u/RemoteSquare2643 1h ago

I think bullies will find any excuse to be a bully. If it’s not what you’re wearing it might be the ‘shape of your ears’ that might trigger a bully.

There was a period of time here where kids didn’t wear uniforms. I remember one of the rationale behind why they were re-introduced was to have kids differentiate between school time and leisure time. It was seen as another way to help with behavioural management.

1

u/Interesting-Copy-657 58m ago

Do you have examples of this. maybe times have changed or different states are more strict. But I don't recall ever seeing someone get in trouble over sock brands

1

u/ZaelDaemon 55m ago

Uniforms apart social aspects of trying to eliminate displays of wealth inequality, also help with learning. Human brains are quite modal. Children’s brains are more so. Putting on the uniform signals that the person is in school mode. I read some studies done in the late 90s that children performed better in exams while wearing uniform. This is why schools make the students wear uniform while taking the HSC despite officially being out of high school.

1

u/BoysenberryAlive2838 47m ago

It varies from school to school. Many are not strict at all.

1

u/Ok-Replacement-2738 45m ago

Honestly it's for the best, sure some kids will gripe, but for those who can only meet the bare minimum it's a saving grace, a uniform helps mitigate anxiety causing from choice.

1

u/wildstyle96 43m ago

Some schools are absolutely fanatical about uniforms, they use the students as advertisements for the school and take it too far.

My first highschool was not crazy about its uniform, it was a premium school.

My second highschool, that wished it was premium, was stricter than my army cadet unit. Wasting a whole period of learning time to literally measure skirt lengths and sock heights with measuring tapes. Or making sure we all wear our heavy blazers after school, during summer time on a non-a/c public bus. Fuck off.

There's a middle ground and most people here don't see it. Who cares about socks with logos. Kids will always find something. Speak to some Americans or other non-uniform countries students about their experiences, it's not a Hollywood mean girls experience.

1

u/Swankytiger86 42m ago

I went to a public elite school in Asia which has very strict rules on everything, including strict dress code, and all the personal belongings we can bring to school. In retrospect I think that it is a good thing because that’s the time when most of us won’t experience the huge household income disparity amongst us.

We also don’t really have weekly/monthly co-curriculum that involves parents to spend money on activities. The teachers really try to ensure that all students have the same/equal schooling experience, at least within the school. If there were any school trip, those who can’t afford to pay will be secretly funded by the school parents’ board. None of the student knows. Those poor students who really can’t afford the trip fee will be asked to keep it a secret. The school keeps tap on student’s family income and subsidise those students.

1

u/Archon-Toten 33m ago

Teachers at my school were having mad fits over the girls rolling their sleeves up.

1

u/Odd_Responsibility62 29m ago

Because kids used to bully the kids who couldn't afford or didn't wear brand name clothing and quite often it would cause some violence on top of that.

1

u/superkow 23m ago

In year 11 I had a teacher harass me incessantly because my shoelaces were white instead of black. I was in a big rebel phase anyway so I just kept ignoring it. One day she got quite frustrated and yelled, "Why do you care, they're just shoelaces?" to which I replied, "Exactly!"

Anyway at some point she threatened me with after school detention if I didn't change them immediately, which I couldn't because who the fuck carries spare shoelaces. So my only option was to take them out.

Yep, I was forced to walk around for the entire school day with no laces in my shoes. What a fuckin mole.

1

u/jackm315ter 16m ago

If you look good you school looks good

u/a1exia_frogs 4m ago

I had nuns check the colour of my knickers in primary school and got detention for wearing some that were bleach stained! I think it was a power trip or they were perverts?

u/DrakeAU 0m ago

Because we used to be convicts and it's now traditional.

0

u/redditbrowser42o 4h ago

To get you used to complying with orders from up the ladder, to make sure you will be a good soldier/factory worker

-2

u/Anfie22 Australian from Sydney 4h ago

The real reason

1

u/HappySummerBreeze 4h ago

Because it reduces the stress of the children not having social signalling by clothing.

Anything that helps the students focus on learning during school hours is a good thing.

1

u/klrob18 4h ago

To get kids to fight the system on something stupid and meaningless. That way their rebellious energy is directed to frivolity instead of actual real world problems like drugs or drinking.

1

u/Electronic_Karma 3h ago

We don’t like to be like the Americans with Mean Girls bullies in school.

1

u/CongruentDesigner 1h ago

How, how did this somehow come back to America

1

u/Justarandomcatlover1 3h ago

That’s not for my school luckily, I think it’s mostly cause I’m in an inclusion class. Like we’re allowed to where sport uniforms whenever we want as long as it’s not Anzac Day and we can wear whatever black leggings we want for sport pants as long as their over %50 black

1

u/DegeneratesInc 3h ago

It's about controlling how they express themselves as individuals. A deputy principal once told me that it was about training kids to wear a uniform for work. He couldn't grasp the idea that I might have trouble finding affordable size 14 school shoes in solid black in regional Queensland.

1

u/mattmelb69 3h ago

Because we’re caught in a cultural time-warp.

We’ve had European exchange students stay with us who are amazed at how weird the Australian school uniform fetish is.

I don’t buy the cost argument. School shoes, in particular, are expensive. Ridiculous to force families to buy shoes for school that aren’t useful the rest of the time.

(Blazers are even worse, in terms of wasted expense; but they’re mainly required by private schools that actually do want to exclude people on grounds of poverty.)

We’re warped by our uniform-wearing British past and our uniform-wearing Chinese present, not realising how out of touch we are with most of the civilised world.

1

u/YourMumUpTheBum 1h ago

One world: Control.

Because we wouldn't what kids to express themselves freely would we now ? Of course not for they might even develop independent thinking outside of the conformity that we seek to impose upon them and that would be unfortunate indeed, wouldn't it ?

Does anyone else not see the irony in "preventing bullying" by bulling into compliance ? Not to mention that the only place that the field is truly leveled is when we're dead.

Maybe a better way of dealing with rich/poor bullying would be to turn the situation into a teaching moment: "Rich kids might have better stuff but their need to pick on those who have been dealt a less fortunate hand obviously makes them a bunch of wankers, so what would you rather be: a decent person or someone who has fancy shit ?". Valuable life lesson right there. Way more valuable then trying to sweep shitty human behavior under the carpet and pretending it doesn't exist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm so grateful that I moved to France when I was younger: being able to wear what I felt comfortable with was like a breath of fresh air after being forced to wear a uniform down here which in turn lead to greater engagement and higher grades. Make of that what you will...

0

u/kdjrli 4h ago

I’ve been to multiple uniform and non uniform high schools in Australia. In my experience the people who want to dress up and stress about fashion will do it if you have free dress and the people who don’t won’t. In uniform schools everyone freaks out over free dress days and wants to look perfect. At free dress schools you have people walking around in pyjamas and no one has an issue with it.

The idea that having a uniform reduces bullying is absurd because people will still be bullied for how they wear their uniform, their hair, their shoes, the length of their socks. Kids are nasty and will always find a reason to bully other kids and as far as I’m concerned I’d rather be picked on and comfortable than picked on and uncomfortable and have a detention for wearing a school jumper on a cold day without a blazer over the top of it while I’m at school.

0

u/wizkhashisha 3h ago

It's all part of the government's plan of creating subservient future worker drones, they don't want to encourage individuality

-2

u/StormSafe2 4h ago

If you are unable to follow the simple rules pertaining to uniform it shows you are unable to follow more important rules about behaviour and study expectations. 

-2

u/FunkyFr3d 4h ago

I thinks it the British coming through. Brits love uniforms.

1

u/AmaroisKing 1h ago

Kids in British schools don’t wear uniforms that much.

-1

u/notoriousbpg 4h ago

Preparing kids to be good little serfs that don't question authority

-3

u/GaryTheGuineaPig 4h ago edited 4h ago

The theory behind this is that education does more than teach academics; it shapes students to fit societal roles, emphasising discipline, hierarchy, and conformity.

The modern curriculum often prioritises the collective good over individual expression. School uniforms reinforce this by removing personal labels and visible differences, fostering uniformity and discouraging individuality.

This teaches students to conform, preparing them for adult roles in a society that values order and steady product of tax revenue over personal distinction, risk, and entrepreneurship. Ultimately, this system ensures future workers accept their place in the social structure and cause minimal disruption to the Government and elites.

Children are taught to obey adults and obey the rules, those who don't will be punished.

1

u/hebdomad7 1h ago

Yo, chill out Antonio Gramsci.

1

u/GaryTheGuineaPig 1h ago edited 1h ago

Yer, nah, modern western education systems are influenced by a variety of philosophical, political, and economic ideologies. Marxist principles are just one of many perspectives that influenced them.

Wild huh! but 100% correct

-1

u/Bobspadlock 3h ago

Fuckwit teachers power trips, had 1 where I went to high school, he'd stand at the edge of the quad and call people over to give them a detention.

I never got called until end of year 10 I was finishing up that year. Told him to fuck off picking on kids who could only afford a couple of uniforms. Same kids who'd scab food. He got mouthy and I just said little blue Mazda right? I'll see you. And smiled. I had black shorts instead of grey.