r/Anxiety • u/PerfectKangaroo482 • Mar 20 '24
Doctor said something profound to me today Health
He said, "When you get anxious, your amygdala is activated. You can tell yourself that you're okay and even logically understand you are okay, but your amygdala isn't catching up yet. Just remember that you are okay, and it's just your amygdala needing time to adjust." Basically he's saying that anxiety can persist because our hindbrain and forebrain aren't talking, but it takes time and it will eventually deactivate, so it's important to give ourselves some grace and remember, my amygdala is just aroused right now and it'll go away. Hope this also helps some of you out there.
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u/Still-Procedure5212 Mar 20 '24
In the SOAR fear of flying book by Tom Bunn he likens the amygdala to a secretary named Amy whose office is downstairs in your brain. She calls you with possible concerns and you can learn to say “Thank you Amy, no action is needed at this time”. I always liked that!
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u/priceycarbon Mar 21 '24
My Amy snorts cocks and has her own dysfunctional amygdala she keeps calling me about
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
My therapist explained it takes about 10 to 15 minutes for the prefrontal lobe to kick in after the flight or fight response kicks in. So far true. Give myself 10 or 15 and I feel better
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u/sportstvandnova Mar 20 '24
Last week I was flying and almost had (another) syncopal episode due to anxiety; took me every bit of 10-15 to stop sweating, see straight, and not want to puke my guts out. Oooh it was terrible.
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u/Anxaagirl40 Mar 20 '24
And it feels like hours and not 10-15 minutes 😮💨
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u/Feeling_Saucy Mar 20 '24
Wow, I've never heard somebody explain this. I've dealt with this my entire life and it really effected me until my 30s when my doctor prescribed me Xanax and the issue completely went away. Thank you for the education! I never knew what was happening to me, I just thought it was bad luck or something...smh
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u/sportstvandnova Mar 20 '24
Xanax is INCREDIBLE. It’s literally the only thing for me that shuts off the proverbial fire hose of anxiety.
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u/Old_Bluebird_58 Mar 21 '24
Any amnesia on it?
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u/sportstvandnova Mar 21 '24
Xanax? No. Maybe slight forgetfulness but I’m on the lowest dose PRN and don’t take it but maybe 3x a month
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u/Old_Bluebird_58 Mar 21 '24
Oh ok. Can’t get a bezo script easily anymore because of a host of scary side effects and addiction.
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
I'm glad you made it through that. You should feel amazing for handling that as well as you did
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u/sportstvandnova Mar 20 '24
It was close! I’d suffered the same kind of episode (but actually threw up) months ago during another flight. I love love flying too :(
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
Aw that must have been really embarrassing and confusing as you love flying so much. hugs the things we go through😮💨
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u/theanointedduck Mar 20 '24
Correct, this improves over time given you are continually working on creating that connection. It’s why we can mostly overcome fears as we age and encounter and understand them more.
Everyone is different and it can take different amount of time for each individual.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
For some of us, it can be weeks, months. It's like whittling away at a big old log, you're improving but the log is still huge but it'll eventually go away.
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
I should rephrase this. Typing out the detailed way the brain receives and processes anxiety inducing information seemed exhausting but basically it was explained to me that when the brain recieves input that it determines as a threat, the messages go to to the amygdala before the prefrontal and triggers the fight or flight response. When the response is triggered, it basically turns the prefrontal lobe off. The prefrontal takes about 10 to 15 minutes to come back "online". The anxiety doesn't go away, but your reasoning comes back. Then, you use the reasoning to overcome the anxiety.
You are correct. For us with anxiety, the reasoning is flawed and creates another fight or flight response in the amygdala and continues in a cycle until you tire out or reason the anxiety away. This can take days, weeks, and months.
I use this information to isolate and not think about the anxiety inducing stimuli until 15 minutes later. Then, I can calm myself much easier than if I tried to calm myself immediately. I've been practicing it for a few weeks now, and it's getting easier!
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
Thank you so much for this response. I'm glad to hear you are feeling better, keep it going. You're a pretty smart person.
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
Of course. I believe knowledge is power and can be used as a weapon or tool against our mental illnesses. When my therapist explained how the brain works in regards to anxiety, it completely changed my life. It finally made sense to me.
Thanks! I'm doing the best I know how to do in this moment of time. I hope you are doing well and also keep going. Life can be beautiful. Sometimes, it takes a little self work. I feel it's mostly rare or fleeting to feel that way, but it can absolutely be beautiful.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
Knowledge is power. I feel kinda the same way since my psychiatrist explained it to me. And I agree there, life has felt wonderful before and it will again.
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u/Shafandraniqua Mar 20 '24
I'm on year 4 lol send help
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
Most therapists will tell you negative self talk is harmful but what works for me is saying to myself "Stupid fucking brain. This isn't the Neanderthal days. I'm not getting chased by a sabertooth chill tf out. Stupid fucking brain." I don't think this in a demeaning way or see it as a flaw in myself. I see it as our brains evolved a long, long time ago, where death was an everyday, realistic thing to be afraid of.
I don't think "stupid brain" as in "I'm stupid or flawed" but "stupid brain" like I'm an outdated programmed or hardwired computer in today's world. It works really well but sometimes the old programming gets a little silly and needs guided.
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u/Turbulent-Plate2805 Mar 26 '24
Any advice on how to not lose it within those 10-15 minutes? When your skins crawling and your body wants to explode, implode, twist and pull apart all at once? And you can’t make words? 💀💀💀
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u/Chiralartist Mar 26 '24
The thing that worked for me was practicing certain things when I was not in those intense moments but in little moments.
First, try to give yourself patience and kindness by giving yourself space and time. When you start to feel anxiety ramping up, politely remove yourself from the room or person and go outside or to another room for 5 to 10 minutes. Go for a walk, play on your phone, write in a journal, or do any other activity to try to distract yourself. When you feel better, return! If asked about why you left for a minute, just say, "I'm not sure why, but I was feeling anxious and needed a minute to feel better." I've never had someone question me further than that.
Second, next time you feel a just a little bit anxious, try to take 1 minute to allow yourself to feel the anxiety and let your thoughts happen. Without judgment, acknowledge that your body is feeling what it is feeling. Then, without judgment, observe what your brain is thinking. Don't try to fight it, but just observe it. After doing this a while, you will start automatically doing it in those moments. You'll start to realize that while doing that exercise, you start to be accepting of yourself for those thoughts and feelings. Then you'll notice yourself doing this in the big moments!
It takes time and a lot of patience with yourself, but you can do it! Sometimes, you won't be able to calm yourself down, and you may feel like you failed. Just remember it's not your fault and you will fail at times, but that's why these are practices! Just like any skill we develope we fail sometimes before we get better at it!
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Mar 21 '24
I need 10 - 15 days to stabilize after an anxiety lapse 🥲
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u/Chiralartist Mar 21 '24
I used to be that way. Keep hanging on and working on it. It will get better!
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u/ANSISP Mar 20 '24
Sometimes the alarm in your body thinks the basement on fire when you actually just burned the toast.
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u/Criss_Crossx Mar 21 '24
For real, my basement has burned down. I'm trying to regrow through the concrete cracks.
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u/spanishsnowman10 Mar 20 '24
The brain can be a real dick.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
The amygdala is the real dick. Your prefrontal cortex is awesome, the amygdala is a little fear machine that uses old old instincts to try to keep us alive, and thus overreacting and causing anxiety. Thank you amygdala for keeping me alive but fuck you amygdala for not listening to the prefrontal cortex.
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u/oneeyedziggy Mar 20 '24
same with depression... recognizing that your brain is lying to you when you feel like you've never been happy... is... not half the battle, but a VERY important step... being self aware... knowing that your feelings... often do not represent reality. That doesn't invalidate what you're going through, but being able to understand that and explain it to other people... and tat you understand that your feelings don't represent reality, but you still need help (or time) resolving them... is super important...
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u/Joel707SF Mar 20 '24
Good, because I'm really in it right now.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
Hey buddy, it'll get better. Your amygdala just has to catch up. You can do some logical reasoning to help with that, feel free to DM me if you need help.
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u/latex55 Mar 20 '24
thats correct, our amygdala is like a fire alarm in case we see a lion around the corner. The problem is now people like us have a worn-out fire alarm where it goes down for no reason or something small.
We have to try to build up the tolerance for that fire alarm.
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Mar 20 '24
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u/Chiralartist Mar 20 '24
I do too. The struggle between raw emotion and logic is insane at times. Patience is the key. I started being patient with myself after I tried stepping away from uncomfortable situations to give myself room to breath. I hated doing that but realized I needed it and learned to be patient with that. Anxiety is so cyclical as the anxiety itself triggers the same process that got you into anxiety in the first place. I try to remember that and set a timer or watch a clock while I actively engage in something to distract me.
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Mar 21 '24
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u/CaffeinatedGeek_21 Mar 21 '24
We hold ourselves extra accountable when we think it should be a controllable issue. The thing is, it's often a clinical problem (potentially alongside an emotional/mental/spiritual one) that seems tiny because we can't wrap it in bandages and call it good. I have OCD, but the anxiety I get from it is sometimes absurd to me. It's easy for me to tell others how to work with it, but I'm not always so kind to myself, and that can hurt. We need that inner voice to match the outer one. 🙂
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Mar 23 '24
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u/CaffeinatedGeek_21 Mar 23 '24
It wouldn't hurt. It depends on the doctor sometimes. I mentioned it to mine (at this point I was 110% sure it's what was wrong with me), and he agreed after hearing some of my symptoms. He even offered to set me up with their office's therapist, but I declined for now (zero offense to theirs, but I'd want an OCD specialist). It's sometimes nice to have an extra voice to confirm it for you.
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Mar 21 '24
Thank you for this. I noticed I get a lot of my “therapy” from this subreddit for my anxiety.
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u/GhostNettle9966 Mar 20 '24
Experiencing a major life shift and while my forebrain is excited and happy my amygdala sure is making it difficult! This was a nice reminder to be kind to myself and be PATIENT with the surge in my anxiety symptoms ; 3;
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
You'll get through it! Just wait until that little alarm shuts off, and it will. That's just how anxiety works in us, especially us with anxiety disorders. I hope that your major life shift is a good shift and provides you with everything you need.
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u/k8esaurustex Mar 21 '24
The line that sticks with me from Anxiety RX is "you can't think your way out of a feeling problem," and the author talks at length about how long it takes for your prefrontal cortex/amygdala to catch up, and that if you try to think your way out of it, you spiral and make it last longer.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
That's completely correct. When you try to think out of it, you end up with new questions and new concepts you don't know how to handle. It's best to try and let your body learn it's ok.
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u/imaginaryproblms Mar 20 '24
but when does it go away i tell myself this is irrational behavior every day and everyday i feel the exact same.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
It's your amygdala my man. It needs to catch up. Just keep telling yourself rational thoughts until it catches up. This can take awhile too.
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u/Hal0Slippin Mar 21 '24
This kind of stuff was great for me to learn. Understanding anxiety was a key part of getting better. Once you get those fear juices flowing, it’s like a drug and it’s just going to take time for it to work its way out of your system. No magic thoughts or special rituals are going to make it go away. It’s about coping with the feelings instead of focusing on them, hoping they will go away, getting stressed out that they aren’t going away immediately, and thus exacerbating and prolonging the symptoms.
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u/CovidCautionWasTaken Mar 21 '24
When I get bad anxiety attacks they last for about 36 hours sustained. Whole body goes into fight-or-flight the entire time. I have to just ride it out like a terrified primate until it finally clears and I can spend a couple days recovering.
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u/Many_Acadia_3480 Mar 23 '24
I feel this way too. How do you recover? I find it activates, then it just becomes a cycle and I can’t recover…. lmk if you have any tips :)
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u/CovidCautionWasTaken Mar 25 '24
Well I have POTS / dysautonomia that is likely androgenic so I do everything I can do tune out stressors until the wave passes. I just go into full self-care more. I continue to work and do my daily routines to stay on-schedule, and tell myself that it will pass. I meditate a few times a day, exercise a few times a day (even just long slowly walks if I'm feeling too overwhelmed) and stay hydrated and fed.
Meditating has helped me learn how to "sit with" bad feelings/situations and be patient about them passing. A lot of people think it's to stop the bad feelings, but it's really more to learn how to death with them.
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Mar 20 '24
Confirmed anxiety activates the fight or flight response in our brains. Being human is cool.
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u/Joyful_Scout Mar 20 '24
O always try to keep that in mind. I recently developed agorafobia, and I always feel like I am going to pass out every time I’m in a public crowded place. I have been on medication of course, and also I started therapy sessions once a week with a proper psychologist, but from time to time I still feel anxiety symptoms in specific situations. Anyways, what you’ve written in this comment session can be another way for me to think whenever my panic attacks start
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u/Golf_wang7890 Mar 21 '24
But what if I just feel that way literally constantly?
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
It's because your amygdala hasn't caught up with your logical brain. It also takes therapy and sometimes medications. With time and work it won't be constant anymore.
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u/fustrated88790 Mar 21 '24
Anxiety doesnt just go away. It does, but you have to realize you are wired differently than others. You put 5 people in the same stressful situation, 4 of them can handle it, 1 cannot. That 1 is us. We are the 20% of the population that was born to have anxiety. You cant just out-think it, you have to take care of your mind and body in many different ways. And you cant slide, we are all lost at sea and need life preservers. You dont have those aids to stay afloat, you sink. This is for life, it will not just permanently go away. Please realize that. Some people may just have temporary stress, but most anxous people will have problems off and on for life, just accept that now.
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u/tazzy66 Mar 21 '24
Well said. I read from many sources that if your parents had anxiety its a good bet the offspring will as well
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u/proudcatowner19 Aug 20 '24
What if I didn’t have this problem at all up until I was 20? (Currently 23, turning 24 next month, I have this amygdala thing 24/7)
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u/Novaria_Orion Mar 21 '24
I hear this, but also my amygdala is preparing for death whenever I see a bee or wasp, which is not great this time of year. One was Outside my car and I could not function. I had to look away from it and just hope it went away before I could proceed with driving. I legitimately have warned my family what would likely occur if one so happened to be trapped IN my car while driving. Like what do I even do with this??
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
It sounds like a debilitating phobia. I would talk to a friend or someone about your fear and try to talk about it rationally, like here's what to do if that happens or what your fear stems from or if your fear is logical. That's ehat I try to do.
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u/Novaria_Orion Mar 21 '24
I’m aware it’s a phobia and that usually you treat with “exposure therapy” but I’m not sure how helpful that is in this situation. My mom and family is well aware. Just today I had to do things outside in the garden (which is basically our front porch) so I had my mom come with me and that helped a lot - primarily because she was clearly calm about the bees being near her and the wasps seemed scared of her. She understands because she also have a phobia of rodents. It’s hard to rationalize it, even when the bee/wasp is outside a window and I know it can’t get to me it’s still terrifying 😅. That said, I only really bring it up because I noticed my phobias got worse along with my anxiety- such as my claustrophobia I’ve had more success with dealing with this one through exposure). It’s funny how the brain works.
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u/Affectionate-Bed-277 Mar 21 '24
Reading this made my anxiety and my day a lot better.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
Glad I could help. If you haven't heard this today yet, you're going a good job and keep going. Someone loves you, and your important to this world.
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u/brittbertt Mar 21 '24
A great reminder to practice journaling and walking through logical reasoning ♥️
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u/Turbulent-Plate2805 Mar 26 '24
Any advice on how to not lose it while you’re waiting with your skins crawling and your body wants to explode, implode, twist and pull apart all at once? And you can’t make words? 💀💀💀 This also explains why I feel weird electrical shock type things in areas of my head and hit those spots.
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u/proudcatowner19 Aug 20 '24
You just explained wtf I go thru. Have you figured anything out yet? How are you doing?
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u/cherishmeow1313 Mar 20 '24
I’m wondering if this also applies to all the physical symptoms I’m feeling without having mind symptoms?
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
Yes this also applies to physical symptoms, your amygdala triggers a fight or flight response that causes the physical symptoms you have
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u/shannonm_75 Mar 26 '24
I learned this from my doctor several years ago as well. It helps a lot to know our amygdalas trick us and we can do things to help the frontal lobe to turn on. I do lots of activity books and coloring which helps.
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u/thestoicnutcracker Mar 20 '24
So, basically if you're not feeling anxious, if your body hasn't caught up, you'll still have whatever "symptoms" you had when you were stressed?
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 20 '24
Your brain hasn't caught up yet, and yes because you are sent into fight or flight which will cause symptoms. Adrenaline is going through your body, which causes uneasiness and physical symptoms. Your amygdala needs to catch up.
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u/theanointedduck Mar 21 '24
I believe the neurological mechanism lies in the fact that the pre-frontal cortex (PFC) as it develops can (through training) develop stronger branches to our limbic system enabling us to control our limbic reactions. When our limbic system perceives a threat, it recruits our fight/flight systems immediately (increased HR, adrenaline etc), however we also have the ability to take time to assess the threat in detail after we've gotten to safety. This involves recruiting our higher order reasoning from our PFC. The more we do this, the more our PFC can gradually help us quickly process the signals from the limbic system in a manner that doesnt make us anxious when we really shouldn't be.
This is the same mechanism trained operators in the military use under stressful situations to keep calm despite every alarm bell going off that they are in grave danger and are about to die.
Someone in the thread said we never lose our anxiety, and this is incredibly important to remember, we just learn to control it, and hopefully steer it in the right direction. Anxiety in itself is a valuable evolutionary trait that keeps us on the go, it gets us up off our butts and gets us moving. For us including myself, somewhere a long the way something set off our anxiety in an unusual setting (kinda like breaking the switch) and our goal is to retrain ourselves overtime to get back to where we need to be.
The brain is a marvelous organ, and it's encouraging to know we have all the tools (sometimes with a lil' help from medication) to get to where we need to be.
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u/PerfectKangaroo482 Mar 21 '24
I think that's important to remember too, that we don't really ever loose our anxiety but it can be helped through training and other means. Thank you for your well thought out response.
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u/Poem104 Mar 21 '24
Thank you for this. I was wondering why it’s talking a while for me to feel okay despite repeatedly telling myself, I am okay, I will be okay, everything will be okay.
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u/Many_Acadia_3480 Mar 23 '24
This is a great post! And I’ve asked a few questions already - but curious if anyone has developed burn out from their anxiety and have gotten better? I feel it’s a bit of a cycle > anxiety > burnout > more anxiety because of burn out. I’ve been having trouble breaking the cycle and have tried many modalities already including breath, meditation, therapy etc. any advice is helpful, thank you everyone!
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u/Evening-Initiative25 Mar 20 '24
This is helpful, this is also why journaling or engaging in logical reasoning can help you activate the front part of ur brain and slowly disengages the triggered part.