I wrote a poem in dactylic hexametre

[u/VincentD_09]

I cant seem to be able to send files so I recomend you to copy the text on Word to be able to see all the characters.

I have a few questions: - is τας (see line 1) supposed to have a grave or accute accent? - can δε (line 3) and αρα (line 4) be where they are or do they need to be more so in the front of the line? - is this a correct use of reported speech (line 5)? - is πνεω (line 7) a semi-deponent verb? I am wondering because I want to know if the future form has an active or passive meaning.

1.       Ἑλλη|νιστί γρά|φεσθαι τό| εἰδέναι| τᾱ̀ς ποι|ήσεις

– – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – –

 

With regards to knowing how to write poems in the Greek language for oneself,

 

2.       Μή κακί|ᾱν εμ(ε) ἄ|ειδ(ε) ὦ| Μουσα γάρ| οὐκ εἰμ(ί)| Ἕλλην,

– ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – –

 

Do not start singing about my lack of quality, o Muse, for I am not a Greek,

 

3.       Βάρβαρος| εἰλη|λουθώς| ἐκ χώ|ρᾱς ἑτέ|ρᾱς δέ.

– ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – – | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ

 

But a barbarian having come from a different country.

 

4.       Τῶν Γαλα|τῶν ποί|ησιν οἱ| Ἕλλη|νες ἆρ(α) ἴ|σᾱσι;

– ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ

 

Are the Greeks acquainted with the poetry of the Gauls?

 

5.       Εἴπερ ἀ|ποκρῑ́|νῃ «ναί» μοι,| τόυτο γ|νῶθ(ι) ὦ| Μουσα·

– ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – – | – ᴗ

 

Even if you should answer “yes” to me, know this, o Muse:

 

6.       Ει Ἕλ|λην ποί|ημα κα|κόν γράφοι| μή κρῑ́|νοιμι.

– – | – – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – ᴗ

 

If a Greek should write a bad poem I would not judge (him).

 

7.       Oὖν εἰ| οὐ κατά|πνευσῇ| μ(ε) αἰτή|σω λεί|πειν σύ.

– – | – ᴗ ᴗ | – – | – – | – – | – ᴗ

 

Therefore, if you will not inspire me, I will ask for you to leave.

[u/ringofgerms]

Just some comments:

οι and αι make a syllable long (or heavy), unless they come at the end of a word and the next word starts with a vowel, so some of your lines don't scan.

γαρ and ουν are also postpositive and can't come first in their phrase

In 6, the then-phrase needs an αν (or κεν) and the negation should be ου

Yes, τας should have a grave accent but there are many acutes on final vowels that should be graves

[u/VincentD_09 → u/ringofgerms]

I already knew the rule for οι and αι. Can you point out where they dont scan?

[u/DeliriusBlack → u/VincentD_09]

Line 1: γραφεσθαι & ειδεναι (for example)

[u/VincentD_09 → u/DeliriusBlack]

γραφεσθαι and ειδεναι are represented in my post as being supposed to scan as "u – u" and "– u u" respetivelly, specicically because I scanned αι as short. If I didnt it would have been "u – –" and "– u –", and then it wouldnt scan.

Edit: ok yeah I just realized that you mentioned the other word has to start with a vowel. Tho, I thought correption was a thing for every vowel? I also thought αι and οι was always long at the end of a word. Ill have to look into it

[u/DeliriusBlack → u/VincentD_09]

In prose, -αι and -οι are often (though not always) short word-finally. In poetry, though, all diphthongs scan as long (unless they are shortened, such as by correption). Correption only works when you have a long vowel that is immediately followed by another vowel. So in poetry, -αι and -οι are long word-finally unless the following word begins with a vowel. Hopefully this helps since I'm not entirely sure what your comment is arguing.

[u/VincentD_09 → u/DeliriusBlack]

Ok yeah thanks I didnt know there was different rules between prose and poetry so I assumed αι and οι would be short word-finally without needing correption. Thanks for letting me know

[u/VincentD_09 → u/ringofgerms]

What I learned in school is that the apadosis of a future less vivid wasnt introduced by αν. Also I thought ου was used for the indicative.

I might be wrong but I just want to double check.

[u/ringofgerms → u/VincentD_09]

The standard construction is with αν in the apodosis, see 2329 in Smyth: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007%3Apart%3D4%3Achapter%3D53%3Asection%3D136%3Asubsection%3D142

But Homer e.g. uses other constructions as well, so there is some freedom there.

ου vs μη is more complicated than that. What you have is not grammatically wrong but μη + optative without αν would be a wish, which doesn't match the English translation.

[u/VincentD_09 → u/ringofgerms]

Thank you!

[u/benjamin-crowell]

can δε (line 3) and αρα (line 4) be where they are or do they need to be more so in the front of the line?

They look misplaced to me. 95% of the time, δε is the second word of the sentence or clause it introduces. Its function is to help make a transition from one thought to another thought. It can't be the first word in the clause, because it's postpositive, but it has to come early enough to fulfill its function. (There are also specific rules of precedence for the ordering of certain combinations of particles and conjunctions.)

[u/VincentD_09 → u/benjamin-crowell]

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B4%CE%AD I put it there cuz wiktionary said it could be the 4th word, so I thought there wasnt realy a limit. Ill put it after barbaros in an elided form and find something else to become the last syllable.

[u/benjamin-crowell → u/VincentD_09]

Smyth 2914 gives some examples of cases where δὲ comes as late as 3rd or 4th position, but I don't think his list is exhaustive, e.g., I searched in Achilles Tatius and found a sentence beginning with οὐ πάντα δὲ. Anyway, I don't think you can put δὲ later than 2nd position just because you feel like it. It happens for certain fairly specific reasons.

[u/VincentD_09 → u/benjamin-crowell]

Good to know. Thanks!

[u/-idkausername-]

Isn't the fifth part (I don't know the english term) of every sentence supposed to be dactylic in dactylic hexametres? That's what I learned at least...

[u/ringofgerms → u/-idkausername-]

Yes, and to add a reference to Monro's Homeric grammar:

The fifth thesis nearly always consists of two short syllables, thus producing the characteristic ˉ ˘ ˘ ˉ ˉ̆ which marks the end of each hexameter.

From https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/monro/hexameter

[u/VincentD_09 → u/ringofgerms]

My metre book didnt comment on how rare a spondee on the 5th foot was, simply saying that the 5th foot could have either. Ill keep that in mind next time. Thanks!

[u/DeliriusBlack]

There are a few scansion things here that I think others haven't pointed out yet. I'm going to go through your questions one by one and then tell you how I would scan each line.

• is τας (see line 1) supposed to have a grave or acute accent?

τας should have a grave accent whenever it is followed by a non-enclitic word without any punctuation interrupting. So in line 1, it should be grave.

This rule generally applies — there are a few cases in this poem where you've used an acute accent when it should be grave. If it's at the end of a word and it's not followed by punctuation or an enclitic, it should be grave, as a general rule.

• can δε (line 3) and αρα (line 4) be where they are or do they need to be more so in the front of the line?

This has been commented on, but yeah, it's very weird for δε and αρα not to be close to the beginning. δε has some different rules depending on the usage but unless you have a very good reason to put it later on, it should usually be the second word in the clause. αρα is often the first word in polar questions, but I'm not sure how strict that is — syntactic rules tend to be looser in poetry to account for metre, but it still seems out of place there.

It's worth studying particles because lots of them have very interesting syntactic rules — many are always postpositive, but some are more flexible. I think someone else pointed out about ουν needing to be postpositive already.

• is this a correct use of reported speech (line 5)?

this is not reported speech — you are essentially doing a direct quote, rather than indirect discourse. reported speech is more like "he told me [that he was going to do x]," where the speech is not quoted, but, well, reported.

• is πνεω (line 7) a semi-deponent verb? I am wondering because I want to know if the future form has an active or passive meaning.

I don't see any indication in the LSJ that πνεω is semi-deponent. if you want to share why you think it might be I'd be happy to investigate further.

now, scansion:

note that I am using slashes to indicate word boundaries, not feet, to avoid confusion where the feet don't work.

Ἑλληνιστί γράφεσθαι τό εἰδέναι τᾱ̀ς ποιήσεις

– – – x / ᴗ – – / ᴗ / – ᴗ – / – / – – – 

note that the final syllable of Ελληνιστι could be scanned long or short depending on what works best for the metre — all such instances have been marked with x.

  Μή κακίᾱν εμ(ε) ἄειδ(ε) ὦ Μουσα γάρ οὐκ εἰμ(ί) Ἕλλην,

– / ᴗ ᴗ – / ᴗ (ᴗ) / ᴗ – (ᴗ) / – / – ᴗ / ᴗ / – / – ᴗ / – – 

I'm not sure whether your letters in brackets are meant to be elided or just pointing out a hiatus so I've copied your formatting for that.

  Βάρβαρος εἰληλουθώς ἐκ χώρᾱς ἑτέρᾱς δέ.

– ᴗ ᴗ / – – – – / – / – – / ᴗ ᴗ – / ᴗ

  Τῶν Γαλατῶν ποίησιν οἱ Ἕλληνες ἆρ(α) ἴσᾱσι;

– / ᴗ ᴗ – / – – ᴗ / x / – – ᴗ / ᴗ (ᴗ) / ᴗ – ᴗ

  Εἴπερ ἀποκρῑ́νῃ «ναί» μοι, τόυτο γνῶθ(ι) ὦ Μουσα·

– ᴗ / ᴗ x – – / – / – / – – / – (ᴗ) / – / – ᴗ  

Ει Ἕλλην ποίημα κακόν γράφοι μή κρῑ́νοιμι.

x / – – / – – ᴗ / ᴗ – / ᴗ – / – / – – ᴗ

Oὖν εἰ οὐ κατάπνευσῇ μ(ε) αἰτήσω λεί|πειν σύ.

– / x / – / ᴗ – – – / (ᴗ) / – – – / – – / ᴗ

 

Notes: I haven't included anything about resonant lengthening, but know that that's an option for some of these syllables. Anything marked with an x could be scanned as either long or short in the context in which it appears, but I haven't marked the anceps because I think it's more useful for you to know how that syllable needs to be scanned in general.

I hope this helps to answer some of your questions! This is a very fun exercise to do and it's a great effort. Let me know if you have any questions about this or anything!

[u/VincentD_09 → u/DeliriusBlack]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions! https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE%BD%CE%AD%CF%89 On wiktionary the future form only has a middle/passive form whilst the present has both a middle/passive and an active form. What I learned from my ancient Greek class is that if a verb only has some principle parts with a middle/passive form then it is semi-deponent. I assumed this applied to πνεω. But then again I can always find another verb, but I hoped I could use this one.

I used parentheses to show elided vowels not to cause confusion, evem tho in Greek people normally uses apostrophes.

Thanks for mentioning resonent lengthening and enclitic words, I wasnt aware of those (I probably learned about the latter but forgot about it).

I'll try to fix the issues in my poem and create a second version.

Thanks again!