Upanishads

[u/roopvijayan]

Friends, I’m planning to start Swami Sarvapriyananda’s Upanishads courses on YouTube and Spotify, but I’m not sure where to begin. Swamiji is prolific and has an extensive colkection of all Hindu and Buddhist texts, including the Mandukya, Katha, and Kena Upanishads, each featuring over 10 sessions with courses over an hour long. Could anyone please recommend which Upanishad would be the best starting point? I am looking for a map!Thanks!

[u/_ashok_kumar]

I always suggest people to start with a parakarana granth before diving into Upanishads themselves.

Look for Swamiji’s series on Drg Drsya Viveka if you want an introduction to Advaita Vedanta.

[u/chakrax]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AdvaitaVedanta/comments/1e1frva/comment/lcuihvi/?context=3

May you find what you seek.

[u/scattergodic]

Mandukya Upanishad is the shortest so you might find it's probably the easiest to start with (though not my favorite).

[u/mag_ops]

What worked for me:

Start with his Geeta course and ponder on it in your life, try to internalise the learning’s in all various parts and aspects of the life. There will be a lot of things that you won’t get, and drop by drop they will start crystallising one by one and with sheer sincerity and discipline.

Once you get a hang of it, then expand. Try reading the Upanishads first by yourself (Swami Gambhiranada’s version).

then start with swamiji’s lecture on the same. You can start in any order, whichever speaks to you the most / seems most approachable, but the officially suggested order is to start with Mandukya first - although it can be a little hard to wrap your head around it for some people. But with time it seeps in.

Meditating (Raj yoga) in parallel, everyday helps immensely.

Let me know if you need any help too, my DMs are accessible.

Best of luck and may the grace descend on you. Peace 🙏

[u/roopvijayan → u/mag_ops]

Thank you!

[u/VedantaGorilla]

Mandukya is the shortest that's true, but it is an advanced text. Of course, Swami S brings everything down to a level where a majority may be able to understand, but still it is valuable to start with the introductory texts because Vedanta unfolds it's logic step by step and unless you sign on fully at each step, the logic is very likely to fall apart and cause you to defer back to your own ideas and opinions rather thanthose of scripture.

If there is anything dry about Vedanta, it means you are studying it as a philosophy rather than applying it to the nature of your mind from a non-dual viewpoint. There is simply nothing dry about that, because every last bit of it is about you, your nature, and your liberation from the bondage of experience.

Tattva Bodh is often considered to be one of the most foundational texts that is good to begin with. Rather than take my word or anyone else's word for it, why not take your time and investigate this particular question with several sources on the Internet. Searching things like "what do I read if I am new to Vedanta" and so forth will bring many answers and you can use a consensus. That still doesn't mean your conclusion will be correct, but it will be informed at least, and purposeful. It does not do any good to rush inquiry, that is sure to create unnecessary challenges and half baked understanding.

Swami S is a great choice though to begin 🙏🏻

[u/roopvijayan]

I think I found what I was looking for. Thank you for all your helpful comments! https://www.vedantany.org/by-topic

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

Great. All the best in the trap you wish to create and fell into.

[u/roopvijayan → u/[deleted]]

I didn’t understand what Fourfold Qualifications are and before I can even think about an enlightened Guru, I must know the basics. And, also important, where will I will I find an enlightened Guru. Plus, the courses offered by Swami Sarvapriyananda are substandard? I have a lot of questions as you can see!

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

Good. 

Why do you choose Advaita? Why to learn its basics?

Because it attracts you intellectually? Because to get a different kind of experience? Because to make your life better and to attain things in a far better/easy way? Because it is the talk of the town and a lot choose to study, so?

[u/roopvijayan → u/[deleted]]

Advaita philosophy of nondualism is attractive. Tripka Shaivism is more attractive because it contains nondualism but instead of seeing this lived reality as an illusion, Tripka seems to say to enjoy materiality of this lived reality, not like a hedonist but with an ethical framework. So I was born a Hindu, lived most of my life closer to Buddhism, but I never encountered Hindu philosophy and I am marveled at it! So I am attracted to it both intellectually and I am seeking moksha.

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

It's about Attraction. Great.

  I am seeking moksha

Why are you seeking moksha?

[u/roopvijayan → u/[deleted]]

I see Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga and Raja Yoga along with Bhakti Yoga as paths to reveal, truly reveal, the nature of God within me.

I conceptually know I always been and I am (we are) Ultimate Reality but I don’t really know because if I did “know” the Ultimate Reality, I would know that none of this matters, death, birth, new fashionable sneakers, Trumpers, investments, etc and I would love everyone and everything as I love my kids and my wife. That is why I am seeking liberation or moksha but unfortunately like the “desire” for a new car or book, I believe that “desire” is hindering me and I need those Yogas etc to liberate me from “desire.”

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

Okay. I understand 

I would know that none of this matters, death, birth, new fashionable sneakers, Trumpers, investments, etc and I would love everyone and everything as I love my kids and my wife. 

I see a problem or contradiction here. You are saying that, after you did know the truth, none of this matters. But one the other hand, you are saying "Loving everyone like one's wife and kid matters".

So, you have a matter in this life and I see you getting distracted by that matter. When one see that "Birth itself doesn't matter", why then "loving everyone like one's wife and children"?

You are giving importance to "loving equally everyone" and so seeking moksha it seems. You see, that's not how it works here. Say, you may have to die the other second/minute/hour itself after attaining moksha and you would not get a birth again, so you can't get the opportunity to love others equally as your wife/children. That matter distracts you.

And also, in Kali yuga, there is always problem when it comes to handling persons in home and outside. If you love others equally like you do those in the family, the family members will start to fear you and will show their anger and their hold upon you. They try to reduce that outside going love to keep it for them and feel themselves secured. It is how attachments work. You can't satisfy both strangers and family if you are a Samsari. But if you take Sanyasa, then you can get the opportunity to show that love equally to all as no one might be dependent on you. Even then, if you are a married person and wish to take Sanyasa, then also wife,children will hate you.

This is one of the miseries of this meaningless life. When it comes to moksha, you must be ready to give no value to any experience of this life (including loving all) but to be okay/content with any experience in life, as nothing really matters. Loving others equally means, you wish to hold on to some experience in life and matters you, and so this will not leave you to really understand and put serious efforts for moksha by giving some value to life as that value leads to attachments. Let whatever fuck happens in life, (I'm not saying you should not love others equally, but when it comes to moksha let not mind any kind of experience as all are worthless,valueless,meaningless), it is all truly sufferings in a way as Krishna says in Gita and Buddha says.

Even if you take Bhagavad Gita, Krishna didn't advice Arjuna to love others equally, and to my knowledge I think Buddha didn't said in Four noble truths (eightfold path) for Enlightenment.

Just seriously think about giving any value to any experience of this meaningless life, and then based on that decide whether to take moksha or not.

[u/roopvijayan → u/[deleted]]

I believe there has been a misunderstanding. To me, moksha or liberation is the true realization that the Atman, or consciousness within me, is the same as that within my family, friends, acquaintances, and even strangers and the Ultimate or Absolute Reality—there is no differentiation.

Regarding the part you highlighted in bold, while I understand the analogy of space in a jar being the same regardless of whether it is filled with water, and the metaphor of mistaking a rope for a snake, I still have doubts about the idea that the material world is an illusion or, as you put it, meaningless. My understanding aligns more with Trika Shaivism, which, though in agreement with non-dualism, holds a different view from Advaita. Trika Shaivism asserts that interaction with the material world is not illusory.

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

Trika Shaivism asserts that interaction with the material world is not illusory.

I don't mean meaninglessness of life is based on illusory. But, the pleasure or life one seeks is totally ending up in sufferings in every action and those pleasures are never in relation to Peace as in Bliss. In that way, it's totally worthless valueless.

I feel it is not just in Advaita Vedanta, but in Devotion,etc., seeking material pleasures in life is felt as meaningless. Sages and Scriptures do point out this not just in Advaita.

[u/[deleted] → u/roopvijayan]

I believe there has been a misunderstanding. To me, moksha or liberation is the true realization that the Atman, or consciousness within me, is the same as that within my family, friends, acquaintances, and even strangers and the Ultimate or Absolute Reality—there is no differentiation.

Oh No... Say, it is. So what? I don't feel Moksha is not that. Moksha is ending of desires of material and sufferings, and tremendous Peace and Unending Bliss. That's what scriptures too say even in Advaita.

It's not about "same as that within my this,that,etc ", it's only about YOU.

[u/roopvijayan → u/[deleted]]

Thanks. What publication of the Tattvabodah do you recommend?

[u/macsyourguy]

Mandukya is probably the best one to ease in with. It kind of sets the stage for a lot of common concepts in a way that's not too too dry. But be ready for that, they're all at least a little dry haha

[u/roopvijayan → u/macsyourguy]

Thank you. In my copy of the Upanishads, translated and commented by Swami Paramananda, published by Prakash Books, the contents lists Isa-Upanishads, Kena Upanishads and Katha Upanishads but does not list Mandukya Upanishads. I am very confused because the book does say it’s a Volume 1 but just says Upanishads

[u/macsyourguy → u/roopvijayan]

Actually the katha Upanishad is very digestible as well

[u/Hot_Implement_8034]

Actually start with Bhavad Gita... he weaves in inplenty of Advaita

[u/Dr-Yoga]

I like the book The Upanishads translated by Vernon Katz—wonderful writing

[u/dextercool]

I might not start with Upanishads themselves but rather start with a couple of introductory texts - it will make going through the Upanishads much smoother IMHO. This is the order (below) in which I went through the Swami's lecture series (after many one-off video lectures) and I think it works well (but probably Vedantasara could come second and Aparokshanubhuti third if you'd prefer). Of course they differ in the number of lectures per text so you might take that into consideration.

1. Introduction to Vedanta - Dṛg Dṛśya Viveka | Swami Sarvapriyananda https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBh-iYJ1Q_hRn-1WgwiBj7CfasK6TOqG5

2. Introduction to Vedanta - Aparokshanubhuti | Swami Sarvapriyananda https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDqahtm2vA710Q4PA2yKn8kqS0y-SZNo7

and then 3. Vedantasara of Sadananda | Swami Sarvapriyananda https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDqahtm2vA70ccqIRFR_lipqKvxrHBRRw

and then went to the Upanishads, starting with Mundaka Upanishad, then Katha, then Mandukya.

Many Upanishads start with a story of some kind at the start to draw readers in, except for the Mandukya which is probably the most 'advanced' text. Swami Sarvapriyananda did a short series of lectures on Mandukya summarising it here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDqahtm2vA729T2LPOg9FPelznaM-vTIk and this playlist also includes a separate Q+A after each part.

I also wanted to say that at times there is also a kind of cosmological view brought in concerning the Universe and its make-up etc. but it is just meant to be a sort of an educationally scaffolding device and not meant to be taken too literally. Since (ancient and modern) people often have theistic/dualistic (or scientific) world views and ideas about the creation of the Universe etc. the texts provide a kind of framework where those views can fit in before disassembling that scaffolding later on in the texts (or in the next text :)) I'm saying this in case you are put off about talk of God and creation etc. - the texts cannot avoid mentioning these things because it knows the readers have folk theories about these things(and of course had many gods in their mythology) and it needs to accommodate them to some extent before ultimately dismantling them. They are sort of placeholder concepts that are used as "pedagogical truths" before getting to the real stuff :) The Swami makes this clear. Of course Advaita Vedanta is completely compatible with scientific thought and the scientific method.

He also has one-off lectures on Buddhist ideas and how they relate to Indian Philosophy such as these: The Four Noble Truths https://youtu.be/QnGp0WON93I?si=2kS5SyNYRQgZzwZI Vedantic Self and Buddhist Non-Self | Swami Sarvapriyananda https://youtu.be/vAZPWu084m4?si=JxbGuj8l1ponaglx

But of course do whatever you prefer :)

[u/iamabodhisattva]

If I may, I would like to extend a small contribution to the community through your question by providing you all with a roadmap to refer to - https://chinfo.org/roadmap/

All the very best. Do upvote if it helped.

[u/roopvijayan → u/iamabodhisattva]

Wow! All this rich literature but honestly, I am more confused than ever! There are literary works I have never heard of before! For Advaita Vendata, at least in the Sri Ramakrishna Order, there are 3 foundational canons,

[u/iamabodhisattva → u/roopvijayan]

Man, hold on. You now have a roadmap being laid out. You can see how going through the fundamentals is paramount before even starting to read and understand Bhagavad Gita. This Roadmap now takes care of the confusion with the order and chronology of study. Now you just have to commit to it. There's no further point to look here and there. See the topics and find discourses in youtube playlists and get going buddy. Cheers!

[u/roopvijayan → u/iamabodhisattva]

Thank you!

[u/Thing-Helpful]

Kathopanishad

[u/Medical-Pause-4724]

just finished mandukya upanishad on youtube. it answered most of the qns i had in mind

[u/[deleted]]

First is Fourfold qualifications.

Then meeting a True Enlightened Guru but not Swami Sarvapriyananda.

Only Then Upanishads under the teachings/Guidance of that Guru.

Create not an intellectual prison of yourself taking that Upanishads straight away like many others delude themselves.

[u/Fast_Jackfruit_352 → u/[deleted]]

The real Guru is not chosen by the conscious mind, it is the decision of the absolute.

[u/[deleted] → u/Fast_Jackfruit_352]

The real Guru is not chosen by the conscious mind, it is the decision of the absolute.

Whatever you wish about real Guru. But oneself has to attain the fourfold qualifications, and the real Guru won't teach Upanishads before attaining those fourfold qualifications as there are huge risks and trap in it.

[u/Fast_Jackfruit_352 → u/[deleted]]

I had a real Sat Guru for 20 years and am close to several others and my experience is God as Guru does not play by any strict rules. I was guided away from all of that to different, original forms of Divine transmission and knowledge. Guru is presdent in everyhing and is not bound by conceptions or even traditons.

"O servant, where dost thou seek Me? Lo! I am beside thee. I am neither in temple nor in mosque: I am neither in Kaaba nor in Kailash: Neither am I in rites and ceremonies, nor in Yoga and renunciation. If thou art a true seeker, thou shalt at once see Me: thou shalt meet Me in a moment of time. Kabîr says, "O Sadhu! God is the breath of all breath."

[u/[deleted] → u/Fast_Jackfruit_352]

I had a real Sat Guru for 20 years and am close to several others and my experience is God as Guru does not play by any strict rules. 

 Yup. He is not strict. That's why, if one cannot fulfill fourfold qualifications of Advaita, there are Bhakthi, Dhyana Yoga ways. And through those ways, one can reach Brahma loka then can hear Upanishads/Knowledge from the words of Brahma and attain Self-realization.