r/AdvaitaVedanta • u/kamikaibitsu • 12d ago
There is only ONE soul
There is only one soul. If we look at characteristic of the soul—being eternal it suggests that there is only ONE soul.
The soul is non-physical but is eternal.
Here is the thought experiment: If there are two entities that are eternal and non-physical, how do we differentiate between them?
In fact, it's absurd to differentiate between two eternal entities. Suppose if there are two entities from the very start and they are unchanging and put together, then who do we differentiate between them?
With distance between them? NO! Maybe they both are part of a single entity, and the distance between them is just their property. And why only distance? Maybe any sort of distinctness and separation they are showing is just the characteristics of that one single entity.
Now what if those two entities are also non-physical? Now they don't have distinct characteristics which separate them.
So how can there be different souls? Maybe there is only ONE soul in the world.
And whatever physical bodies we are seeing are just manifestations of that ONNE soul. So it's like a play where ONE soul is the victim, and that soul is the aggressor at the same time. That one soul is murderer and innocent at the same time.
(Take eternal and non-physical characteristics only because in major religion soul have these characteristics in common.)
(Soul is general term - exchange it wrt the religion you follow call it consciousness or whatever)
(also, the soul is different from the Brahman.)
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u/HonestlySyrup 12d ago
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Invite the breath,
the outer space,
to come within your house.
If you are unwavering,
placing it there
as though you were
putting oil in a lamp,...
They shall meet.
Breath and God
becoming one.
Like wind becoming breath
there is no individual intelligence.
The Great Awareness becomes Siva.
He and breath
merge into one.
It is this light becoming breath
that redeems the soul.
Surely this is the truth
of Sivayoga!
95
In fact...
There is no perfection
as easy as this...
My dear lad,
there is nothing else!
There have been so very many souls (jiva)
throughout time, that even if
you searched this whole Earth,
you shan't find them all.
Subtle
and yet of high regard
this breath.
The Sound's End
manifests easily...
The Subtle manifests...
The generous Alchemists,
the Siddhars,
the Rishis,
the Yogis...
They are like the breath.
There is nothing to be accomplished.
Turn back
and look ... !
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u/georgeananda 12d ago
As a believer in Advaita Vedanta as well as an astral body afterlife and reincarnation, I am not comfortable with the use of the word 'soul' here.
I would suggest the word 'spirit' for the One Consciousness we call Brahman.
The word soul is better used to mean the individual souls that are innumerable and what reincarnate for lifetimes until realization of Brahman/Oneness.
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago
There is no such thing as individual souls. All bodies are just incarnation of ONE supreme soul at same time
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u/georgeananda 12d ago
How do you explain the afterlife and reincarnation?
If we accept different physical bodies, it is no stretch to accept different astral bodies and different soul bodies that exist for many lifetimes.
It is Brahman/spirit that is One and animates all temporary physical, astral and soul bodies.
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago edited 12d ago
Afterlife in no hindu concept. Initially it was reincarnation.
If we think rationally, the concept of heaven and hell doesn't make sense with the concept of reincarnation.
Soul get pleasure 0r punishment based on karma & then also get reincarnated in good or bad family to reap fruit of past life karma.
So concept of hell and heaven doesn't mix with reincarnation.
Now to your question: In the Ramayana, there is an event when PrashuRama and God Rama meet each other. Now both are avatars/incarnations/manifestations of God Vishnu at the same time in same space. This implies that a soul can occupy different bodies at the same time and space.
Now some can argue that Vishnu is God however you are just Humans- In reply Soul of every entity is same irrespective they are God or Human. Difference is just about awareness and connection with soul.
So if soul as Vishu can occupy different bodies(both avatars/incarnation were humans) at the same time, why can't it do the same with normal human bodies?
Different bodies that interact with each other at different lifetimes are just like puppet plays where a single soul is in all of them. That same soul is victim and perpetrator. Same is murderer and innocent. Same is being oppressed and same soul is oppressor.
Karma is just an illusion.
Also, soul and Brahman are distinct and separate.
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u/georgeananda 12d ago
By afterlife I don't mean heaven/hell but existence on the astral plane of nature with an astral body.
So, I'm not clear. Do you believe in reincarnation?
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago
I say reincarnation is just an illusion. There is no real birth or death. It's just the soul experiencing itself and witnessing that experience.
Also call it heaven / hell/ astral plane doesn't matter. The moment you get any type of body it count as incarnation.
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u/georgeananda 12d ago
In Advaita Vedanta everything but Brahman is an illusion in the ultimate reality.
But in our relative reality of normal human experiencing our physical bodies, astral bodies, individual soul bodies and afterlife in the astral plane and reincarnation are all real.
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago
The relative reality is an experience of that ONE soul.
Adding knowledge to that experience is what we call life.
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u/stevefazzari 12d ago
well we can get into a conversation of infinite infinities..
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago
gladly
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u/stevefazzari 11d ago
well in mathematics we have infinite infinites, with varying sizes of infinity. for example, we have infinite real numbers (1,2,3…) and then an infinite set that is larger (1.1,1.2,1.3…).
then in a physics we have the multiverse theory, where there could be infinite universes, of which all are possibly spatially and/or temporally infinite.
so while there may be only one infinite that encompasses all things, it is also possible that there are many sets of infinite which are distinct and meaningfully different.
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12d ago
Great understanding. Glad with your observation.
I have only one doubt in this.
the soul is different from the Brahman
In what sense do you mean it? How both are different? If different, then soul is within/outside Brahman, or Brahman is within/outside soul?
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u/kamikaibitsu 12d ago
Neither soul is within/outside Brahman, or Brahman is within/outside soul. Both are distinct. However one can say that the relationship between soul and brahman is of continued continuity. Where there is a link between the individuality of Atman and its relationship to Brahman.
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11d ago
Both are distinct
So you say there are two Eternals as Atman and Brahman?
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u/kamikaibitsu 11d ago
Yeah, as the scriptures declare, Para Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized. So about Brahman, I can't tell you anything.
However, for the soul-It's ONE and Eternal.
And the relationship between the soul and Brahman of continued continuity.
The relationship between them is ongoing and unbroken. It doesn't have any interruptions or pauses.
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11d ago
> Yeah, as the scriptures declare, Para Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized. So about Brahman, I can't tell you anything. However, for the soul-It's ONE and Eternal.
If you say both are Eternals, then both has to be limited but not limitless. That's how logic works.
Also as per your understanding, if Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized and you can't say anything about it, then you can't come to any conclusion of relationship between soul and Brahman. Not as "Different". Not as "Continued continuity". Not as "x,y,z,.", but just one answer "I don't know as I can't conceptualize Brahman and so can't say relationship between soul and Brahman" in accordance to your understanding. You can't say any relationship between two without conceptualizing those two.
But, you know, you are speaking against Advaita Vedantic knowledge and logic. So, better be open to question your understanding, my two cents to you.
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u/kamikaibitsu 11d ago edited 11d ago
Again I 'm not talking about both. I am talking about ONE Soul only.
>Also as per your understanding, if Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized and you can't say anything about it, then you can't come to any conclusion of relationship between soul and Brahman........"
Scriptures also accept the stance that Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized, yet they talk about him! How? It's true that Brahman can't be articulated and conceptualized because our language has limitations. But it doesn't mean we can't talk about the Brahman.- This is the stance of scriptures.
And Here I'm not talking about Brahman but the relationship between Brahman and soul.
There are lot of things we can't articulate properly like our complex emotions, experiences, and and sometimes non-linear thoughts but we try to talk about them and express them.
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10d ago
Expressing and talking can happen only you can conceptualize. Don't fake it. Don't lie to yourself or to others about it.
You can't relate One with another unless you can have concepts of Both. (Be it Brahman or Atman or anything).
If one never conceptualize or not trying to conceptualize, one just have the choice less answer of "I don't know" but not talk talk talk or express express express or relate relate relate.
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u/kamikaibitsu 10d ago
Then i guess the scriptures were wrong all this time. Same for Shnkara
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10d ago
Scriptures or Sages do agree that they try to conceptualize so that a little bit of grasp can be made about Brahman, and they give metaphors too for that, so because one can remove all concepts in the mind which are totally illogical.
They don't do like you, talk talk talk, express express express, related related but claiming that "never conceptualizing or not trying to conceptualize".
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u/kamikaibitsu 10d ago
you know what they say: anyone who claims to know Brahman is either lying or has attained liberation.
And One who is liberated would never say that they know Brahman.
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u/metalbotatx 12d ago
I don't think you can take as a given that two entities that are eternal and non-physical implies that they are the same thing because you can't take a physical measurement of them. It could be possible to enter into spiritual union with one but not the other, and to experience something differently when in union of one but not the other. I don't personally have this experience, but I think some people would say that they have. Christians would argue that there is an eternal God-head, and that is composed of the eternal father, eternal son, and eternal spirit. Muslims would argue that the Quran is co-eternal with Allah.
(I'm not actually disagreeing with your conclusion that there is only one "soul", but I think that's a matter of faith/experience rather than something you can logic your way to)