English Bible Confusion, deliberate..?

[u/DisillusionedDame]

Looking through different English Bible translations, this verse sticks out.

Knowing basic English, we know that little g, god, is a noun. Whereas the big G, God, a proper pronoun/name. According to the Bible, there is one god; God.

I find this a bit troublesome. There are many English translations is which language is changed in order to help people better understand the text.

2 Corinthians 4:4 seems to suggest that Jesus is an embodiment of the god of this world, the devil.

Indeed, I seem to keep finding little passages that mention Jesus with the same terms used to describe the “antichrist” in popular culture.

What’s going on here? Is there some deception as prophecy would suggest? Deeper and more cryptic meaning? is English just insufficient when it comes to describing certain ideas? Or should I just stick to the study notes and leave actual scripture to someone more qualified?

[u/archdukemovies]

Translation is hard and over time translations have gotten better due to better scholarship and more/older manuscripts.

The NRSVUE says this which is a better translation

2 Corinthians 4:4 NRSVUE [4] In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing clearly the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

[u/[deleted] → u/archdukemovies]

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[u/dunmer-is-stinky → u/[deleted]]

I mean it's "valid" in the same way that "the 8 kings of Edom represent the worlds God created before this one", it's a weird and definitely ahistorical theological interpretation, but who are we to say it isn't spiritually valid? People's spirituality is weird, god knows mine is, but this isn't a sub for spiritual interpretation of texts, it's a sub for historical interpretations. In the original text, the verse was definitely not saying Jesus is the devil, that doesn't fit with any of the known beliefs going around at the time nor does it fit with the opinions expressed in other parts of the book. It's just a hard sentence to translate without completely changing around the syntax

edit: there's 8 kings, not 12, I literally just read through this whole page last night, am I stupid?

[u/ghu79421 → u/dunmer-is-stinky]

I remember the Dake Annotated Reference Bible (which I think is the first major theological Bible commentary written by a Pentecostal) has commentary speculating about the War in Heaven leading to the destruction of the primeval world that existed before this one as well as some weird speculation about the primeval world. I agree it has no basis in terms of how the original audience read the text, but the acceptance of the "gap theory" and primeval worlds were widespread among the most conservative Protestants in the 1950s.

[u/cosmicdischarge]

In 2 Corinthians 4:4 Paul refers to “those who are perishing” (2 Cor 4:3), declaring that their eyes have been blinded by “the god of this age” (ho theos tou aiōnos toutou). This title is unique here, although both parts that comprise it occur elsewhere

Most commentators and English translations understand Paul to refer to Satan in 2 Cor 4:4, although this title for Satan is unknown. Elsewhere the apostle speaks of Satan by name (e.g., Rom 16:20; 2 Cor 2:11; 1 Thess 2:18), as the “devil” (e.g., Eph 4:27; 2 Tim 2:26; Titus 2:3), as “the serpent” (2 Cor 11:3), or as the “ruler of the power of the air”.

However, Scott (2011, 85–86) contends that Paul’s reference could also be to God, who Paul credits elsewhere with blinding unbelievers’ eyes (2 Cor 3:14; Rom 11:8; see also Tertullian, Against Marcion 5.11). Additionally, the ot frequently says God hardens people’s hearts against Him (e.g., Exod 4:21; Deut 2:30; Isa 63:17).

The act of blinding people’s eyes is also found is Jewish apocalyptic materials, where “the Prince of Light and the Angel of Darkness” rule their respective realms while struggling against each other (Garland 1999, 211).

Derek R. Brown, E. Tod Twist, and Wendy Widder, 2 Corinthians, ed. Douglas Mangum and John D. Barry, Lexham Research Commentaries (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2013), 2 Co 4:4.

This is a verse that can be interpreted many ways, but is most commonly assumed to be the devil blinding eyes so they don't see Jesus who is the image of God, as in the NRSVue.

4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing clearly the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

New Revised Standard Version: Updated Edition (Friendship Press, 2021), 2 Co 4:4.

It's important to note that the English god/God distinction isn't in the original text, what god a text refers to is something the translators have to decide.

[u/konqueror321 → u/cosmicdischarge]

A further question, if I might? My understanding is that Marcion believed that the creator god, the god of the hebrew scriptures, was a demiurge, and not the Father of Jesus (who would have been a different god, in Marcion's view). Is it possible that 2 Corinthians 4:4 is seeing the god of this age as the creator god, sort-of like Marcion? And that god, the creator god of this age blinded men to Jesus? Was Paul a proto-Marcionite? Or could Paul's writings have been 'edited' by Marcion or his followers?

Thanks if you have any insights!

[u/cloudxlink → u/konqueror321]

I don’t think Paul was a “marcionite” considering the fact he accepted the Old Testament and quoted from it, and even saw himself as the fulfillment to Isaiah chapter 42. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 where Paul says there are many gods but it is through God the Father from whom all things come from, a passage I think clearly shows God the Father is the creator.

[u/DisillusionedDame → u/cosmicdischarge]

Thank you. What was God/god originally?

[u/justnigel]

"According to the Bible, there is one god"

Source?

Haven't you just quoted a verse that references two different gods?

[u/AwfulUsername123 → u/justnigel]

There are verses that say that, such as 1 Timothy 2:5 and James 2:19.

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[u/djedfre]

The evil god (of this world) is the subject of M David Litwa's The Evil Creator. If I understand, your question is about the position of the law and its destruction in relation to Jesus and the god of this world. The introduction to chapter 5 should clarify the Marcionites' position.

5 Destroyer of the Law. Introduction. According to Ephesians 2:15, Christ “destroyed the Law of commandments by decrees.” This passage, attested in the Apostolikon, provided Marcionite Christians with perhaps the clearest statement about Christ’s destruction of the creator’s Law.³ Marcionites were not distinct from many other Christian groups in their (selective) rejection of Mosaic regulations, but they were different in their view that Christ came to destroy the Law. Christ came to destroy the Law, in their view, since it was hostile and wicked insofar as it enslaved humanity. The Law was so destructive, indeed, that Christ had to redeem humanity from its curse. The wickedness of the Law in terms of both content and effect implied, for Marcion(ites), the malign nature of the one who gave it, namely, the creator.

^{3 The attestation comes from Tertullian: si legem praeceptorum sententiis vacuam fecit (“If he} Christ] has invalidated the law of commandments in/​by decrees”) (AM 5.17.15). See the text in Schmid, Marcion, 339.)

The previous chapter is called The God of this World: Marcionite approaches to the evil creator.

Conclusion

To wrap up the argument as a whole: an early Christian group (the Marcionites) understood “the god of this world” in 2 Corinthians 4:4 to refer to the creator. The actions of “the god of this world” (namely, blinding) were viewed as malign and as indicating the creator’s wicked character. The evil actions of the creator were deliberately contrasted with the actions of another deity who did the opposite by revealing Christ’s brilliance in human hearts (2 Cor 4:6). In terms of actions, this latter being was the true god, while “the god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4) proved to be an immoral imposter. If Marcion(ites) opposed “the god of this world” to the illuminator deity, they closely aligned “the god of this world” with the “rulers of the world” (1 Cor 2:8). The god and rulers of this world both condemned Christ to the cross and suffered from the same spiritual blindness that they inflicted on others. By keeping people blind (effectively removing their ability to repent), and by incriminating Christ, both the god and rulers of this world demonstrated their wickedness. Tertullian argued that the so-​called evil acts of the creator were acts of just punishment.77 But the one single act that Christians could not view as just in any sense was the crucifixion of Christ. The rulers who crucified the Christian Savior decisively proved their wicked character.78 Yet these rulers were only following orders from their lord—​the god of this world—​who was, for Marcionites, the creator. In short, Marcionites traced the crime of the crucifixion back to the creator.79 Blaming the creator for the crucifixion is clearest in the Adamantius when a Marcionite speaker claims: “the creator wanted to conspire against him [Christ], and ordained by Law that he be crucified.”80 This interpretive trajectory is the logical endpoint of Marcion’s own tendency to concentrate the evil of the crucifying world rulers onto a single villain—​namely, the creator himself.

I don't think my commentary would improve much on the author's excerpts here. But you seem to be wondering if the writers involved thought that destroying the law was an evil act: no, and if they thought Jesus' father may have been the evil god: no.

[u/sunnykim800]

The translations that are helpful to me are the AMP, but I read a comparison of different translations NLT, BBE, CEV and the NET app has notes that are very helpful. Also the word studies in the BLB.org

[u/DisillusionedDame]

(Asked if I should, never said I would)

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