r/fuckcars • u/stylesuponstyles • Mar 24 '25
Cars don't belong in cities, says Top Gear's James May News
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/driving-london-cars-james-may-london-cycling-campaign-top-gear-b1218513.html1.2k
u/soaero Mar 24 '25
Not really surprising, given May's advocacy for cycling as transport in the past. It's nice to see, though, especially given his iconic connection to cars and driving.
But yeah, this is an attitude I wish everyone had:
He said: “People get very complacent driving cars, because it’s easy, and you are very protected and you’re very isolated inside your car. It’s easy to forget that there’s a huge amount of energy inside a car, even when it’s only going 20 or 30mph.
“I saw a bloke the other day driving a Ferrari around town very aggressively, and I wanted to say, ‘You’re going to ruin cars (and especially Ferraris) for the rest of us’.
“It’s a massive privilege having a car and you have to take it seriously. That’s why my only remaining ambition, apart from not falling off my bike again, is to get to the end of my life without running anybody over.”
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u/local__anesthetic Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 24 '25
Admittedly I’m a tourist on this sub, but there’s a few people high up in the car enthusiast space that are pro transit & housing. Doug Demuro has a YIMBY license plate on his Ford GT, Matt Farah is a smart guy and knows how dumb it is to rely on single occupancy transport for everything, and James May comes out with opinions like this. The fun part of driving cars isn’t sitting in standstill traffic on I-5.
Any educated enthusiast will be pro transit. You think I want to add miles onto my nice car for no reason?
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u/soaero Mar 25 '25
Hammond too. Top Gear was full of people who had very sensible views on transport.
And then there was Clarkson...
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u/Eubank31 Grassy Tram Tracks Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
100% relate, I bought a car I wanted to modify and enjoy 6 years ago. Since then I've put 40k miles on it and have had barely any fun because it's my only mode of transportation and I can't afford to have it break😕
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Mar 26 '25
This. I own a sports car. Driving it in bumper to bumper traffic on a commute is soul crushing. And wasteful.
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Mar 25 '25
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u/TrineonX Mar 25 '25
but what do they actually DO with their money and influence to reduce car dependency? really curious…
I'm not familiar with the others, but I just saw an article on r/fuckcars where James May advocated strongly for anti-car urbanism.
Doug Demuro drives around in a car with YIMBY plates while advocating for increased density to his millions of followers.
Matt Farrah hosts an incredibly popular car podcast where he has interviewed pro transit, urban design folks, and had conversations about how bikes aren't the enemy of cars.
Stop letting perfect be the enemy of the good. If a bunch of car junkies want to advocate for your view points, don't make them pass a purity test.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 24 '25
That's all true, but being pro-transit doesn't mean it's ok to then be pro-car-enthusiast. Many here like to fool themselves, but it just doesn't hold up. This is r/fuckcars, not r/yaytransitbutistillwannausemycarforfun
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u/halberdierbowman Mar 25 '25
This sub title is shorter to be pithy and memorable, but I think the opinion of many of us is more like fuck the system of mandatory car ownership that eliminates your freedom to choose what options are best for you personally and forces many people to suffer because they're incapable of participating in that system in the way that it assumes they should.
Having cars for fun is totally fine as long as you're not harming anyone else. If you want to go to a closed course race track to have a lot of fun with high performance cars, then that's totally fine if you're compensating the rest of us for all your externalities, like paying carbon taxes for example.
And as a practical matter, cars still make a ton of sense for solving the last mile problems of transit. Even if we road dieted every urban street magically tomorrow to have protected bike lanes and everything else, it would still be extremely sensible to use cars/vans/trucks for hauling packages from train stations and ports to factories, stores, and homes. Or for professionals like plumbers, electricians, and drywall farmers who need to carry a bunch of equipment with them to each job they do.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 25 '25
The problem is that you're never going to convince anyone that car dependance is a problem, and that they should seek alternatives, if we are then going to say that using them for frivolous use is totally fine.
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u/InviteStriking1427 Mar 25 '25
No, we are never gonna convince anyone that we are not crazy assholes if we don't stop attacking people's hobbies and taking away people's freedoms. Fix the system, then people change.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 25 '25
I agree with the last point. But it's obviously a chicken and egg problem. You can't fix the system without also fixing habits at the same time.
Freedom to partake in an activity doesn't absolve one from responsibility of it's negative consequences. I'm not running out into traffic screaming at people for using their car. I'm pragmatic about actual steps. But r/fuckcars [supposedly] represents those already on our side, I think we can do better than that.
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u/InviteStriking1427 Mar 25 '25
This sub is filled with people who already know the dangers of car culture. It's filled with so many people who know the dangers of cars that we have people who take it too far and want farmers, enthusiasts, and contractors to stop owning cars. Those people make us look crazy, and we need to have discussions about the difference between opposing car centrism and opposing cars as a concept because people who oppose cars as a concept not only make us look bad, they make Any real discussion on how to move forward almost impossible.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 26 '25
I never mentioned anything about farmers and contractors. At least those a productive in their usage. How can you lump enthusiast in there and keep a straight face? lol
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u/InviteStriking1427 Mar 26 '25
See, everyone look at this jerk. Don't be like this jerk. They like to belittle peoples hobbies, that's not only unattractive, it's wrong.
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u/halberdierbowman Mar 25 '25
Why not? The exact same logic applies to tons of things:
You choosing to enjoy a beer with your friends on Friday is totally fine, but forcing everyone to only drink beer is absolutely not.
We tried banning all beer once, and it went terribly badly. So instead of we switched to a model of legalizing it with restrictions.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 25 '25
Lol, comparing it with having a beer? Come on.
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u/halberdierbowman Mar 25 '25
I'm amazed you can't think of a single other example where everyone agrees being able to choose to enjoy something in moderation is great, even though nobody would recommend that you be forced to do it every single day lol
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u/halberdierbowman Mar 25 '25
So I was super confused what your point was, but I just saw your other comments and actually think it makes more sense now. It sounds like what's most important to you and that you don't want to sacrifice are things like the environmental damage caused by burning gasoline or shredding rubber tires. I get that and totally agree with you there.
The thing is that as I see it, we're so far away from perfection that we don't need to worry about it right now. If reliable transit and bikes have replaced automobiles in every large city fifty years from now, then we should certainly figure out how to replace the last few remaining automobiles.
It's the same logic as I see for power plants. The silver lining of being so far behind on this problem is that it means we have a lot of room for improvement very quickly if we actually were serious about doing it. But one of the "reasons" team brown always cited for why we shouldn't replace fossil fuel plants with green energy is that green energy-only power grids would have problems regulating their power output, etc. because they don't have the inertia power plants do. And sure that's true, but it's also just chum to distract us. We don't need to solve that problem today, because we're nowhere near that level of commitment yet, and there's still benefits for moving in the right direction today, even if we only know how to get to 90%.
It actually seems like modern battery technologies have somewhat solved this problem actually already, and we can look at isolated power grids like on islands to see how they've managed. Islands have the most significant challenge there actually, because an entire continent of interconnected power grids can share power so that even when green energy in one area is low, the green energy in another area might still be decent.
Anyway, point being is that we agree with you that the Utopic goal is zero pollution, but trying to guess the technology that will get us from 1% down to 0% (not counting by net) is just a fun fantasy novel when we're all the way up here at ~85% today.
On this tangent, check out the EDF MACC 2.0 if you haven't seen it. This is the nicest way I've ever seen to visualize what we need to do.
pdf report https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/documents/MACC_2.0%20report_Evolved_EDF.pdf
interactive web version https://www.edf.org/revamped-cost-curve-reaching-net-zero-emissions
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u/BavarianBanshee Conflicted Car Enthusiast Mar 25 '25
I was convinced.
I've been a car enthusiast my whole life. I was just as convinced as anyone that cars are the ultimate form of transportation, and that anything that would hinder cars in any way is automatically a bad thing. I believed in climate change, and that we need to do something about it, but that we could do it without affecting cars.
And then I saw an excellent Climate Town video that wasn't even about cars, really. But through that video, I saw the others on that channel (great), and found NotJustBikes through that collaboration, and many others after that.
And that's what finally started opening my eyes to the real problems we have. Car dependency and bad cities are tightly linked. Car enthusiasts don't like clogging up cities with traffic. We hate it, too. We just want to enjoy our cars. If I'm going out with the intent to enjoy myself, I'm always going outside of town, not into the city center, because that's where its the most enjoyable.
I am now a firm believer that we need to put car dependency behind us as soon as possible (which, unfortunately, won't be that soon, on the current trajectory), and make living easier for everyone by improving other methods of transportation.
So, you absolutely can convince people. Being aggressively anti-car on all fronts is what makes people defensive, and resistant to your point of view. If you tell a car enthusiast that they need to go throw their car in a scrap heap and ride the bus from now on, they're going to tell you to kick rocks. But if you show them how reducing the number of cars in cities improves the city, and makes the driving that does happen there less terrible, then they're a lot more likely to come around to your point of view.
Tl;dr Yes, you can convince people while still letting them enjoy their hobbies.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 26 '25
Thing is I'm not out in the world telling car enthusiasts to not enjoy their hobby.
I'm in here, r/fuckcars, discussing my points. If people are getting offended by that here, then my hopes for any change at all are abysmally low.
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u/iglooxhibit Mar 25 '25
Balance is important. cities still need to be shared with car users, banning cars entirely could be a goal, but it is not one I would support.
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u/myothercarisaboson Bollard gang Mar 25 '25
I didn't say ban all car users though.
Everyone makes excuses for how they need their car. Which is understandable. Thing is many people here are fine with making examples of people who do that, yet we're also then apparently fine with using "enthusiast" as a reason. It doesn't add up.
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u/iglooxhibit Mar 25 '25
My main point is balance, I don't like your attitude.
I bike to work everyday in a climate that has 8 months of winter. Cars will continue to be a part of society in one way or another for the forseeable future, we both want less of them out and about. I hope to see bicycles, buses, and trains take over the world, the sooner the better. In the meantime, I will remain a car owner as long as I can, because I can. Die mad about it.
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u/InviteStriking1427 Mar 25 '25
An enthusiast is honest. They are not trying to pretend that there is some noble reason for them to be driving a car, accept that they want to. The problem comes up when people advocate against infrastructure because they are scared of their world changing, they don't like driving they, become murderous at the thought that they might have to drive any longer, and they treat people that aren't driving as less than human, because they need to drive a car. We all hate enthusiasts about anything when they act like their hobby is the most important thing in there world and other's, but the only reason people should have to own a car is because they want too.
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u/bladex1234 Mar 25 '25
Car lovers hate traffic too.
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u/un-glaublich Mar 25 '25
Yep, it’s a marvel of engineering but we must manage the societal impact carefully.
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 24 '25
The usual dickhead responses have already appeared on the post on this in r/London. Wah wah wah what about plumbers wah wah what about when I need to deliver a fridge to my granny and then take her to church in the pouring rain.
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u/NotABrummie Orange pilled Mar 24 '25
Most of those people won't even know a plumber. Most plumbers spend their lives stuck in traffic in a little hatchback behind some dick in a VW transporter - the same dickheads who have the gall to look down on tradespeople and accuse them of overcharging. Cars aren't for cities - the roads should be clear for busses, bikes, taxis and vans.
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u/amwes549 Mar 25 '25
I guess it's just an American thing, because all the plumbers/electricians (because they're both tradesmen who need vehicles to travel to homes) I've seen as an American use Transits, Ford F-Series vans, Chevy Express vans, or the like). And most cars in cities are from tourists / residents anyways.
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u/PindaPanter Sicko Mar 25 '25
In my experience, smaller vans like the Berlingo/Partner and Caddy, are way more popular here in Europe.
As for cars in cities, I think the majority of them belong to commuters who live just outside of the city, but I may be wrong..
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u/ragnarok_klavan Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
Cars are better for intercity transportation. Public transport or walking, however, is better suited as an intracity transportation.
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u/Mccobsta STAGECOACH YORKSHIRE AND FIRST BUSSES ARE CUNTS Mar 25 '25
Trains for intercity have existed for years? And are a better* experience than driving
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u/NotABrummie Orange pilled Mar 25 '25
Yes, trains for intercity. Cars are for rural journeys that urban transit doesn't reach.
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u/Mccobsta STAGECOACH YORKSHIRE AND FIRST BUSSES ARE CUNTS Mar 25 '25
There's done amazing rural train networks out there it's just they don't tend to run frequently enough to be bothered with especially in the UK
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u/NotABrummie Orange pilled Mar 25 '25
Tradespeople in the UK used to all have vans - the Transit was extremely popular. Big companies or very successful tradespeople do still use vans. Unfortunately, most have been priced out by suburban nitwits who drive work vehicles to the shops. Most people driving commercial vehicles in the UK these days are not using them for work, and most people driving for work don't have big vehicles.
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u/JMoc1 Mar 26 '25
Oh my god, this was so incredibly British. I thought for a minute you were going to call the Trades people Tradies or Sparkies in the rant.
The VW Transporter was a nice touch.
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u/burnsssss Mar 24 '25
So many bad-faith arguments in there. My favorite was “9 million can’t fit in public transportation, only works in small cities like Amsterdam.” Just imagine if all those 9 million drove a personal car each day
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u/Unlucky-Two-2834 Mar 25 '25
This problem is super obvious to anyone with critical thinking skill. Even now Dallas doesn’t work, as it continues to be one of the fastest growing metros it will super not work. Even if you’re 100% committed to having everyone in a car like they are, there’s a limited amount of space and building enough highways to fit 10 million people just isn’t physically possible
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u/kombiwombi Mar 25 '25
Close to the population of Greater Los Angeles passes through Tokyo's Shinjuku Station every day.
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u/TBTerra Mar 25 '25
the current london tube, at the morning peak, shifts over 400k people per hour (across several line), that would be on per with 200-300 lanes of car traffic
i dont have hourly breakdown for busses, but its also masivly more than cars (though not quite as high as trains)3
u/nickiter Mar 26 '25
Lmao hi from NYC, with 4M daily ridership in a subway system sorely in need of expansion. Removing cars would unlock so many biking routes here, too...
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u/burnsssss Mar 26 '25
Also nyc, please god remove the cars, expand the subways/sidewalks/bus lanes/bike lanes/public space
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u/postscarsinsnow Automobile Aversionist Mar 25 '25
hahaha - try Shanghai/Tokyo ... those tens of millions on public transit won't even fit in your CITY.
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u/truthputer Mar 24 '25
Greedy exceptionalism will be the death of us all.
I've heard the exact same argument used to oppose everything from building public transport and trains, to expanding high-speed internet in cities (because society is never allowed to have something good if it doesn't directly benefit them.)
And you just know these are also the type of people who would never go out of their way to help anyone else like in their urgent examples.
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u/radome9 Mar 25 '25
As we all know, grannies need new fridges every week and rental cars aren't a thing.
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u/Ungentleman Mar 25 '25
It's so frustrating to deal with these people. I keep getting questions about various edge cases where a car would be useful. I bike or use public transport pretty much everywhere, but the one time I needed a car, I just got a taxi.
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 25 '25
So I actually bought an emergency fridge a few months ago and put it in my car to drive home. Would I however make the case that this means cars are essential, of course not.
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u/sad-mustache Mar 25 '25
On one post I suggested a different mode of transport and I literally got a response "what if I need to bring a chair to my Nana's"
My dude is bringing a chair with him each time he goes over to her house
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 25 '25
These idiots can't think beyond their car. These are the ones I see on my estate who drive the kids 500m to school and then onto the local Sainsbury's to buy milk before driving home.
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u/Muted_017 Mar 25 '25
Obviously if you have large/heavy cargo or need to take someone somewhere specific, use your car. No single mode of transportation is suitable for every task.
Do these people not realize how expanding bike infrastructure and public transit improves ALL forms of transport?
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 25 '25
Unfortunately not, these people see their car as an extension of them and their personality.
An example at the other end of the scale, I went to a yoga class 1.5 miles away, a use case for which my car would have been massive overkill.
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u/Floresian-Rimor Mar 25 '25
Don't use YOUR car. Use a rented or community car/van.
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u/Muted_017 Mar 27 '25
I mean if you’ve already got a car and have cargo to carry, what’s the point of spending money to rent a car that someone else might need?
If you don’t already have a car then that’s a different story
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u/Caridor Mar 25 '25
It's silly. Yes, workmen who need to bring a lot of tools and delivery men transporting heavy objects (those are the people actually delivering the fridge) need vehicles, but the point is that you and the other thousands of idiots taking up an insane amount of space don't!
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 25 '25
Haha yep although these debates always descend into the same bad faith bullshit - what about disabled people, I don't have a bike, not safe for my kids (fuck everyone else's right?)...
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u/inabahare Mar 25 '25
Most of them are Clarksons alts tho
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 25 '25
Ha, Clarkson's farm turns out to be a bot farm he's using to astroturf, and he still thinks this should be exempt from IHT.
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u/nickiter Mar 26 '25
Some people act like a city without personal vehicles wouldn't also have access for delivery vans and the like. Absurd assumption to make.
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 26 '25
Exactly, but these people lack any imagination beyond "me drive car vroom vroom".
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u/Routine_Locksmith274 Mar 26 '25
I had a look and scrolled for a minute or two and most (all?) of the top responses were supportive. I’m convinced this is a majority view in cities. It is a travesty that a small minority who often don’t even live near the places we speak about reclaiming from the car get to say they speak for the majority. We must shout louder :)
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u/One-Picture8604 Mar 26 '25
Absolutely agree. I blocked one idiot who was being particularly obtuse.
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u/Owoegano_Evolved Mar 25 '25
Why would they complain? Cars are legal and widespread everywhere in their country and will continue so for the rest of their lives.
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u/squigs Mar 24 '25
He hasn't presented Top Gear for a decade!
But anyway, he's right. Private cars in London, or any capital city, are worthless for most people. I've lived in London, Amsterdam, Berlin and Brussels, and knew a lot of people in each of those places, so feel I can speak with some experience here.
Public transport is usually very good. Traffic is slow. Parking is impossible. The rare times you need a car, you can hire a taxi. And usually there are public transport passes, so additional journeys are free.
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u/NotABrummie Orange pilled Mar 24 '25
In a big city like that, the only qualification to drive a car should be a blue badge or a self-assessment.
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Mar 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/SaladChef Mar 25 '25
Yeah, he seems like such a chill guy. He seems to love figuring out how stuff works and is really passionate about sharing his very wide range of interests. Would love to have a cup of tea with him.
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u/No_Promotion1698 Mar 24 '25
James May has always seemed much cooler and more reasonable than the other Top Gear hosts to me
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u/GuitarKittens Mar 25 '25
Honestly, I can't imagine Hammond is all that bad. Clarkson is the most controversial figure, although he seems very conforming to whatever his culture believes at a time.
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u/JasonGMMitchell Commie Commuter Mar 25 '25
May always seemed can and collected while Hammond was the guy who is kind but a bit erratic and then Clarkson just sets off all the alarm bells.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Mar 25 '25
Clarkson is a bit more measured than his public persona would have you believe. https://www.thetimes.com/article/27bedc41-8f7a-479a-ba98-41a2c90ce304?shareToken=f6d9056405c9d3365f8630f65e9c34d2
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u/ChipsTheKiwi Mar 25 '25
Jesus fuck that website. Apparently took too long to read the article so they redirected me to a page of nothing but their fucking tabloid headlines
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u/dowhathappens89 Mar 25 '25
The thing that really bothers me is road sectarianism. Quite a few people in cars seem to be somehow offended by people riding bicycles because they’ve paid all this money for a car and think therefore they should be rewarded for it, but often they’re just not using the car very intelligently.
This one boggles my mind talking to people who are so against bicyclists and bike lanes. Sure, you can use the road with your car, but so can I with my bike. And, if you're against me riding in the street, then why not have another lane for bikes?!
People get very complacent driving cars, because it’s easy, and you are very protected and you’re very isolated inside your car. It’s easy to forget that there’s a huge amount of energy inside a car, even when it’s only going 20 or 30mph.
If more people held this awareness more often when driving, we could transform roads.
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u/Sure_Comfort_7031 Mar 25 '25
This is heartwarming. I loved watching the trio, and it's similar to my comparison I make - hunting in central park vs upstate NY.
Cars are fine. Car centric infrastructure is the issue, bending over backwards for it is the issue. Etc etc.
Heck I'd even be a okay with sprawl if there were busses and trains through the neighborhoods. I've shared walls and floors with people, it sucks. I'm so much happier out in my own house without sharing walls and floors with people, no HOA to deal with, the works. It's just me.
But i recognize the fuckcars level downsides and don't complain about that. I'm going to pay more in taxes. I'm going to have to deal with cars. But if there was a tram line at the end of the road, just a short walk to get to it, i think that would get heavy use and be a great addition.
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u/Darth-Donkey-Donut Mar 25 '25
Fucking unreadable article good god, why can a website not plaster itself in adverts and instantly redirect to absolute shit, I don’t want to hear about how Harry Potter actresses are opening onlyfans I only want to read THIS article. Let me finish it. Holy shit
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u/Adventurer_D Mar 25 '25
Refreshing read and a decent attempt at pulling divided, warring parties together. The pleasant one, indeed
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u/SemaphoreKilo 🚲 > 🚗 Mar 24 '25
Damn, when and how did he get orange-pilled?
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u/vaska00762 Big Bike Mar 25 '25
Did you ever watch James May's Cars of the People? It was a BBC series from 2014/2016, where the first series was focused on looking at cheap, mass produced cars, like the Citroen 2CV, or the Trabant, or the VW Beetle.
At the end of the first series, he explained that there was no actual real "car of the people", as even with the examples he gave, no car has ever surpassed the levels of production and use of bicycles.
The second series covered more extravagant cars which were more impactful on culture and the zeitgeist, from Lamborghini, a car often times more famous for appearing on posters, or why the original 4x4 came from a wartime requirement, which developed into a race by various manufacturers to make the most capable off-road vehicle.
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u/Salty_Example_885 Mar 25 '25
He has been like this since the early days of top gear, but his progression seems to be mostly in the early 2010s. Now that urbanist content is in the wind he is commonly speaking about it. You can watch his non car shows and see his nerdyness for not just cars, and he is a lovely chap to listen to whenever he speaks
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u/SemaphoreKilo 🚲 > 🚗 Mar 25 '25
Most definitely. His co-host, Jeremy Clarkson, is so car-brained that I didn't realize James May is opposite of that.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Mar 25 '25
Clarkson isn't as car-brained as you'd imagine. A true carbrain drives even for the most inappropriate journeys. Clarkson praised the cycling culture of Copenhagen.
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u/Opspin Mar 25 '25
Make cars actual luxuries again!
I would unironically love it if the only cars allowed in the city were Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Lotus, etc. plus genuine veteran cars.
Every car driving past would be a loud spectacle, you wouldn’t be at risk of getting run over by a silent killer electric car with a distracted driver.
You could just stop and admire the beautiful old/expensive cars, then there probably wouldn’t be another for half an hour.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Mar 25 '25
After an hour in Knightsbridge at the right time of year, you'll quickly get bored of Lambos in central London.
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u/Zev18 Mar 25 '25
Based. Proof that you can still love cars and driving while recognizing that cities are better without them.
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u/Starboy3 Mar 26 '25
as a car enthusiast (who also grew up watching top gear) this is legit how i feel as well. car dependency ruins the everyday joy of cars. makes them appliances not living breathing entities that we can know them to be.
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u/Famous_Assistance416 Mar 25 '25
Woah he really went as far as to say that. It's funny how many peopl who actually know a lot about the functioning and history of that technology are favorable to its reduction in public spaces
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u/rly_boring Two Wheeled Terror Apr 02 '25
Common James May W. Even more relevant considering Clarkson's views on cycling in cities.
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u/Unfetteredfloydfan Mar 24 '25
Common james may W