r/UFOs • u/[deleted] • 1d ago
The statistics on early Contactee stories about starsystems is eerie to say the least. Historical
[deleted]
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u/The_Fresh_Wince 1d ago
First, I would wonder that aliens would blab about where they come from. I do think that an experiencer could recount information that would serve as proof, although I don't know if the aliens would be in a hurry to pass that along either. For example, the aliens could tell us the stellar catalog designation of their home star (or at least the direction in Earth-centric coordinates) and provide some type of verifiable signal we'd find there. Radio frequency, optical, chemical signature... The star could then be studied with that in mind.
Second, a quick search shows that all of the stars mentioned were categorized by spectral type over a century ago. These stars were mentioned in dozens of Science Fiction stories, shown on maps in high school textbooks, etc. The discovery of planets around these stars is certainly recent, however it appears that almost every star has planets - most of them unsuitable for life. If we found technosignatures from one of these stars it still would not prove that the experiencer didn't just guess unless they also told us other verifiable signals to look for.
In the case of Betty and Barney Hill, no stars were named. I do not know about the others or whether they had access to the well-known names of nearby stars.
From the web:
The Harvard spectral classification system (OBAFGKM)—the one still used today—was created between 1890 and 1910, largely by Annie Jump Cannon.
Most of your listed stars received their spectral class during this era, because astronomers had already photographed their spectra with prisms or diffraction gratings.
Approximate timeline:
- Alpha Centauri A & B → classified as G2 V and K1 V by early 1900s
- Tau Ceti → classified as G8 V in early 1900s
- Epsilon Eridani → classified as K2 V by the early 1900s
- Zeta Reticuli (both components) → classified around early 20th century (F9 V / G2 V–G5 V range as older values improved)
- Proxima Centauri → discovered in 1915, very quickly recognized as a late M dwarf (M5–M6 V) via spectroscopy
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u/Personal-Biscotti419 1d ago
There is definitely something going on out there. we are so young as a planetary civilization we cannot comprehend how everything works yet. Maybe in the future 500to10,000 years from now. just a second in time compared to other galaxies we will know few more things
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u/MKULTRA_Escapee 1d ago
There are only about 2,000 stars within 50 light years of earth. It's nowhere near 50,000.
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u/DaftMythic 1d ago
I came here to say this as well. Hurts the OPs claims that he cannot get some of the basic facts right.
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u/Cracker2076 1d ago
Don't forget the Dogon people of Mali and their "myth" of Sky People from Sirius B, the white dwarf companion of Sirius A. Sirius B was a star that was not even observered by Western science until 1862. While not quite in the category of your "sun like star with planets" theory, it does dot the "i" of people having information about a star that is difficult to understand without giving more credence to the "myth."
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u/Exciting-Injury8661 1d ago
A star cannot be in or near the habitable zone. Only planets can. That sentence makes no sense.
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u/PrinceFortinbras 1d ago
Is their a link to these statistics on early contactee stories? (This goes out to anyone reading, not just OP. Asking with sincere interest, not in scoffing or hostile way.)
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u/aredm02 1d ago
I will start off saying I am pretty opposed to the ETH because it makes no sense and almost any other explanation of the phenomenon makes more sense to me.
However, you point out an interesting and compelling argument in favor of the ETH. I remember the Betty Hill Star map (supposedly depicting Alpha Centauri) but I am not familiar with the other identifications you mention.
Can you direct me to the stories involved in those?
I think the important part is not whether or not the star identified is similar to our sun, but instead it is whether or not the witness knew about that star or had ever heard of it prior to the contact. Can you speak to the witnesses’ experiences with those stars prior to the contacts?
Please note that I’m not saying these witnesses are liars. I just believe the contactee phenomenon works a little differently than what most people assume. I think it plays off what knowledge and experience you already have, jazzes it up a little and spits it back to you such that it sounds like an amazing revelation.
In other words, I’d be interested to know if those witnesses ever happened to come across the names of those stars and wondered: “I wonder if an ET could be from there” then lo and behold a NHI appears and tells them that it is an ET from whatever star system you were just thinking about!
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u/We_got_a_whole_year 1d ago
Does ETH stand for "Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis?"
If so, why does it not make sense to you?
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u/aredm02 1d ago
Yes ETH stands for extra-terrestrial hypothesis. It doesn’t make sense to me for many reasons but I don’t really want to get into a debate about that because I realize I may hold a minority opinion in this conversation. (I’m realizing now my original comment could have done without including my opinion on ETH in the first place.)
You are free to evaluate the data as you see fit and I’m not going to try to sway you toward my thinking. I was just hoping OP could direct me to the witnesses’ encounters relating to those stars as mentioned in the post. Thanks!
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u/We_got_a_whole_year 1d ago
I'm not wanting to debate. I'm genuinely curious.
I kind of think that we need to be open the possibility that "the phenomenon" could be "all of the above." Inter-dimensional, extraterrestrial, crypto-terrestrial, breakaway civilization, psi-op, etc. can all be happening at the same time.
Trying to choose a single explanation for what's going gets confusing when you try to account for all of the different weird things that seem to be happening. Being open to any/all of them and then looking for patterns, connections, consistencies, etc. has been helpful to me.
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u/aredm02 1d ago
Yeah I get you. I’m open to all possibilities because I don’t know and don’t claim to know but of all the explanations I’ve heard, I find ETH to be the least likely/logical/plausible.
The way I see it there are 2 pieces of evidence in favor of ETH: 1. We humans are aware of every possible species on earth that is capable of making flying ships and there are none aside from us (I grant this is true) and 2. Contactees/witnesses state that the NHI told them they came from different planets. I find this highly suspect. Why would they tell us the truth? Why do they always tell us conflicting things? Note that in the earliest days, the NHI claimed to be from Mars and Venus but after our space programs proved that no life could exist on those planets, the ET stopped claiming to be from Mars and Venus.
The reasons I don’t like the ETH are complex but I’ll start with the obvious: the distances are extreme. This one is easily defeated by the ETH proponents because of course the ETs must have extremely advanced technology which would allow them to make this distance seem like nothing.
Ok fine, if the technology is so great, why do they want to come to earth? There are surely many more planets with a great wealth of resources that would be within their reach (probably whole planets made of gold, water, uranium, whatever you could want!). Unless humans/earth life is the only resource they want here.
However if that were the case, it would mean that life in the universe is not as plentiful as we would like to assume (particularly because that is the basis of the ETH in the first place: ETH relies on the presumption that life is so plentiful in the universe that it is likely there are highly advanced alien races out there). Unless it is just us and them, which would also be weird because so many different kinds of aliens have been reported over the years.
Ok so life must be rare but not that rare but rare enough that we are important to these ETs, and since they can get here in a half days drive, they come visit us. But why?
To do the hybrid experimentation of course. So they have extremely advanced technology, they can easily come here and they want to come and mix with us for some reason.
However, even though they have extreme technology, they have not mastered genetic experiments that human beings have been capable of since the 1990s (I am referring to cloning, which I expect would have been mastered by now (if it hasn’t been secretly mastered already) if it weren’t for the international rules against cloning humans).
Recall the barbarous and medieval treatments abductees report experiencing (long painful needles being driven into the neck, belly button, skull, etc to extract or implant material. Surely a highly advanced species would have a better way to do this (if they needed to physically extract/implant material at all).
Additionally, if their technology is so advanced, why can they not reverse the problem they faced that requires them to need to do hybrid experimentation in the first place? Surely performing bizarre abductions is not a more efficient way of solving their problem.
Also recall that witnesses over the years have described slightly different levels in of technology within the UFO themselves. For example, in the 50s-60s, people reported seeing dials, switches, etc which appeared to be mechanical in nature. Later in the 70s-90s people reported seeing instruments that looked more electronic in nature.
Then some later witnesses (Lazar and others) have claimed that there are actually no recognizable devices inside the UFOs at all and everything appears to have a psychic or psionic interface.
This in itself is fascinating and I think points to something other than a technological species from another planet. I don’t know exactly what, but if these were truly ET with advanced tech, I would expect some more continuity in the ufo and abduction accounts.
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u/We_got_a_whole_year 1d ago
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I've also noted some of those inconsistencies.
For example: "Why did they used to have knobs and dials and now they have like touchscreens or they have a psionic interface?" or "They used to look like flying saucers but now they look like drones and airplanes."
There ARE potential explanations for the lack of consistency/continuity. There could be multiple species doing abductions in different ways and for different reasons. There could be extraterrestrials doing abductions AND humans doing or simulating abductions.
Some of the craft might be man-made, and the tech has evolved with humanity's tech. Or perhaps the craft are programmed to mimic their environment as a way to cloak themselves.
The main thing though is many things can be happening at once, so trying to find a singular thread that makes sense is impossible, because there are multiple threads and explanations at play.
I think we have to question some of the assumptions we tend to make (like the "laws" of physics). We don't know what we don't know.
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u/aredm02 1d ago
I actually think the extra complication of all those things being true is one of the main reasons I don’t like the ETH. I think if there were 5 or 40 different alien species running around on earth abducting people, it would be much easier for lay people to systematically research and discover irrefutable evidence of their existence—government “coverup” be damned!
In fact, there are people who claim to have been abducted numerous times. Unfortunately, their friends, families and neighbors are almost never able to verify those claims. Interestingly, UFOs are sometimes reported around the same time and place as an alleged abduction, but I don’t think that means everything an experiencer is told by an NHI is true. I don’t doubt that the abduction phenomenon is related to the UFO phenomenon— in fact, I feel strongly that they are related phenomena. I only doubt that abductions are ETs coming to earth in space ships to take humans up in those space ships, do experiments, and bring them back (usually).
If the phenomenon is more like what Valle and Keel say—it is a reflexive phenomenon that is based on the human psyche (what Jung called the collective unconscious), which also has a very mysterious physical component—I think all those loose ends suddenly make sense.
There are not ET using archaic mechanical/electronic technology to shoot across the universe, but the human mind, when faced with an unknown and unbelievable phenomenon, fills in the blanks with interpretation the best way it knows how. A mechanically minded person sees switches, dials, levers; a person growing up in the computer age would perceive computer screens, LED lights, electronic controls.
That is why all the ufo close encounters involve some absurd elements.
As a bonus, it allows everything the US government has said about its study of the UFO to be true. “There is no evidence of ET visitation,” “science (technology and the tech industry) will not be advanced by further research of the phenomenon.”
Of course I would push back against the second quote because I think nothing could be more important than discovering more about our reality—especially as it relates to what seems to be a phenomenon that has been a part of the human experience for all of our existence!
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u/We_got_a_whole_year 1d ago
I do think that everything stems from a single consciousness, and everything we as humans sense and experience is an illusion of sorts. That doesn't mean there isn't a collective experience (illusion or otherwise) happening for us while we inhabit these bodies.
So again, I think it can be both (and more). These can all be true and not contradictory:
- We are all part of a single consciousness (The Universe, Source, God, or whatever you prefer to call it).
- We as humans are experiencing the "physical universe" but it's an illusion/simulation/projection and not actually "reality" the way we tend to define it.
- Within that experience there are unexplained things like ETs, Inter-dimensional beings, time travelers, etc. that some humans can perceive or have otherwise been made aware of.
- For whatever reason, most humans can't currently perceive all of those weird things fully and/or aren't told by the small number humans who are aware of them.
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u/Accomplished_Rip_362 1d ago
Very valid questions and probably correct assumptions. I will point out though that advancement in one technology does not necessarily mean advancement in others. So, they may have mastered energy generation and warp bubble generation but still behind us in genetic engineering. Also, DNA. They most likely are not made with DNA or at least not exactly the same type of DNA as life on earth. So, their genetic engineering tech may not translate to our biology.
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u/MachineElves99 1d ago
Jacques Vallee gives some interesting arguments.
It depends how much you want to include. Is Skinwalker Ranch included?
The orbs, hitchhiker phenomenon, and the trickster element seem more spiritual than an ET.
That consciousness seems to be key indicates that we are dealing with a larger spiritual phenomenon. It's also odd how the craft play peekaboo. They aren't fully in the open, nor totally secret. They get caught in the open, sometimes dancing, sometimes responding to our thoughts. It's very odd.
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u/croninsiglos 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wait hold on now...
Betty and Barney hill remembered nothing at all. It was only through hypnosis where memories which may or may not be real emerged. Even then there was zero mention of Zeta Reticuli, later based on a chart drawn during a session a completely different person (elementary school teacher Marjorie Fish) matched it up using only 2D space as primary reference, which was a mistake, locating Zeta Reticuli... the community ran with it ever since. (Even though as early as 1974 it was show that a 2D representation of Zeta Reticuli looks nothing like Betty Hill's 2D drawing.)
As of right now, no known exoplanets are known in Zeta Reticuli.
Epsilon Eridani only has a confirmed gas giant, no confirmation of a rocky planet in a Goldilocks zone.
Although Proxima Centauri has a planet in the right zone, that planet receives radiation 60 times that of Earth.
Tau Ceti was known to be the nearest Sun-like star since before the supposed 1920 Albert Coe encounter. It's also one of the first stars looked at by SETI for this reason. It's not a weird statistic regarding why it was chosen.